Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[NDMath]

NDMath, why should a doctor speak up instead of just secretly protecting Blair and making mafia waste a kill? I'm suspicious you want a doctor to reveal so you can kill them in the night.

Dunnstral and Looker would be my guesses for the mafia though. Only because I think Dunnstral is mafia and NDMath is now voting for Dunnstral.

7->4->1 (# of players)
Is really nice for town but only works if Blair lives to tomorrow.

If Blair won't survive,
Massclaiming at F5 beats a vig shot and massclaiming at F4.

[Glitch]

VOTE: NdMath

I like the look of 1944 from the parts I've skimmed so far and I've been thinking this lurking is his scum meta

I haven't read most of the game. I like/respect Glitch's wall posts and cases, and I was suspecting NDMath due to having played a scum game with him where he very much lurked it out in the main thread

Giant wall of text with a tone of authority = town player

So let me get this straight. After I spent 5 hours reading, quoting, building a case, writing out my genuine thoughts on why NDmath is scummy yesterday, you show up, having not even read it all, and are like "lol yup big wall, so town! lemme sheep it!" You admit to not having read most of the game. Then how do you know your reads are solid? You said you had a scum lean because of meta, but then what was your tipping point? Something must have changed recently because your past experience with NDmath has been there since you replaced in. What did NDmath do recently that made it to where his scum play with you in the past makes you want to vote for him now, but didn't make you want to vote him off before? Is your meta argument on him actually that strong and he did something that made you think "now he's definitely scum!" Or do you now SR him because there's a giant wall against him that you think makes a great case even though you haven't even read it? I don't like the feel of this at all from a slot that has pinged me as null for a long time.

[Looker]

Massclaiming at F5 beats a vig shot and massclaiming at F4.

What does F# stand for?

---

• Truth has waived all rights to be suspicious of anyone with his play. My intent is to kill one of the cats today.
  • If Truth thinks NDMath is trying to out a doc and kill them, why is he voting anyone other than NDMath and why is he voting along
    with
    NDMath?

[Glitch]

Looker

: Continuously questions and pushes against popo, but not with remarkable strength. Only votes for popo once there's actual confirmation from Norway on a guilty read. Could be genuine town -- could be scum bussing because he has to in order to not be SR'd.

I think it'd be more accurate to say I voted him my first post of the day. And, in the interest of challenging your survivalism, what would questions and pushes of "remarkable strength" look like to you? Beyond voting, I mean.

The purpose in pointing out the lack of strength in your peppered questions to popo throughout the game is not something I think is AI and makes you scummy. The reason I brought it up is because, as we look back over your interactions with popo, I can read them as if you're town and I can read them as if you're scum and they all make sense either way. It doesn't indicate anything to me about your alignment and I was hoping to go back and see that it pointed to some town vibes for you. 492, 544, 620, 681, 1502. Those interactions with popo which I was hoping would help steer us in a clearer direction regarding your alignment, do not do so. The only post that you have that even mildly suggests that you're not on a team with popo is 922. Your percentage breakdown of who you would like to lynch is objectively townie because it leaves no room to hide or ignore every player, which is definitely townie. And in 922 you've got popo pretty high up there. Scum could do this as well but it wasn't necessary for you to SR him that high up at that point and that's interesting.

37% Nauci | 25% Truth | 17% Blair/Dunnstral | 12% Glitch | 9% NDMath

Can we revisit why you're at 25% on Truth? In what ways do you feel that Truth's relationship with popo is scum indicative?

I value voice way more than my vote in most cases. "Mafia can easily hide behind the curtain of withholding their vote to try to stay under the radar." I can't not be voting day 1 without people screaming about it so this point really doesn't stand.

I don't understand how it wouldn't be a double standard to scumread me for finally voting. In 986 I was comparing my scum game to people's interpretation of my play this game.

I tried getting more information from popo to sort his claim. I argued on your scumcase of catscratch. When debating lion I was further evaluating my read on him. I'm curious how you would define, displaying scumhunting?

Light scumread, realized my other scumreads weren't gonna be hung today so I switched over.

I was his best chance of lasting to night? He was also scumreading me earlier so that would look more consistent. Why would popo intentionally play poorly as you're proposing?

I don't understand what your point is when you say, "I can't not be voting day 1 without people screaming about it." Can you clarify?

Valuing voice over vote is a nice thought in the abstract, but that still doesn't make my point moot. When given a task and two tools with which to complete it, choosing not to use the second one to it's fullest extent is not the best idea, particularly when not using your vote is a weak scum move.

Regarding your scumhunting. You said you tried getting more info from popo to sort his claim. Are you talking about 1690? Can you tell me why 1690 is AI?

Massclaiming at F5 beats a vig shot and massclaiming at F4.

What does F# stand for?

---

• Truth has waived all rights to be suspicious of anyone with his play. My intent is to kill one of the cats today.
  • If Truth thinks NDMath is trying to out a doc and kill them, why is he voting anyone other than NDMath and why is he voting along
    with
    NDMath?

I think it stands for Final.

I would be interested in hearing why Nauci is your strongest SR, and for some reason I'm just now realizing your point you made earlier that she was on the osuka wagon but not on the popo wagon. I'm want to dive into that slot a little more.

And obviously Nauci wishes I was the policy vig, because I can see how scummy he looks today. He doesn't even say he thinks I'm scum.

Can you expound on this more, particularly the policy vig part?

[Dunnstral]

Wow, you guys all turned on me fast. Obviously there's scum in that group of players. Nauci and NDMath had the worst votes, though Nauci unvoted after NDMath did.

VOTE: NdMath

I like the look of 1944 from the parts I've skimmed so far and I've been thinking this lurking is his scum meta

I haven't read most of the game. I like/respect Glitch's wall posts and cases, and I was suspecting NDMath due to having played a scum game with him where he very much lurked it out in the main thread

Giant wall of text with a tone of authority = town player

So let me get this straight. After I spent 5 hours reading, quoting, building a case, writing out my genuine thoughts on why NDmath is scummy yesterday, you show up, having not even read it all, and are like "lol yup big wall, so town! lemme sheep it!" You admit to not having read most of the game. Then how do you know your reads are solid? You said you had a scum lean because of meta, but then what was your tipping point? Something must have changed recently because your past experience with NDmath has been there since you replaced in. What did NDmath do recently that made it to where his scum play with you in the past makes you want to vote for him now, but didn't make you want to vote him off before? Is your meta argument on him actually that strong and he did something that made you think "now he's definitely scum!" Or do you now SR him because there's a giant wall against him that you think makes a great case even though you haven't even read it? I don't like the feel of this at all from a slot that has pinged me as null for a long time.

Chill out, when I started posting I was still getting a feel for the game and then the popopo stuff happened and I got sidetracked talking about that. Today I'm examining everyone with a smaller pool of players

[Dunnstral]

I don't like any of the posts on this page from Dunnstral, and he is voting me for primarily Inactivity.

Am I scum for 'voting you primarily for inactivity'

When I just played with scum you and saw the same thing?

[Dunnstral]

Hey I am still not fully caught up (I

promise

I will within the next 24 hours) so I'm not ready for it to be L-1 as I head to bed rn, even though I think that Dunnstral was doing the vote behavior and barely-surface level "scumhunting" that his scum game consistently exhibits

Also I have to admit I didn't read the recent wall posts, only the crazy Truth posts

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

I think you're misguided because you've only ever seen me replace into games in recent history and I happened to be scum in all of them, and you're attributing my catch-up to being scum when it's just because I replaced in

[Nauci]

That's true. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt for now.

On page 45 now, we're getting there!

[Nauci]

One of my buddies suspects this player could be attempting to push me so that we have to out another mason to validate my claim. This would be very helpful to mafia. Overall, I really do not like LicketyQuickety now.

Reading Truth's posts in light of recent events is absolutely wild

[Nauci]

no we are not lynching the claimed mason.

Just to be clear

None of us are believing either of Truth's claims, right

[Dunnstral]

(Because I disagree with you trying to flip someone who hasn't been on any of the end-of-day wagons despite Nauci flipping osuka but not popopo.)

I don't think NDMath not being on end of day wagons is a strong reason to townread them

[Dunnstral]

What do you mean either of his claims? Do you mean the miller?

[Truth]

Massclaiming at F5 beats a vig shot and massclaiming at F4.

What does F# stand for?

---

• Truth has waived all rights to be suspicious of anyone with his play. My intent is to kill one of the cats today.
  • If Truth thinks NDMath is trying to out a doc and kill them, why is he voting anyone other than NDMath and why is he voting along
    with
    NDMath?

I explained why in the same post, Looker. NDMath was suspicious when he said that but my overall top suspicious read is Dunnstral, and I don't think Dunnstral and NDMath make sense because of the votes. I wonder if you feel like you have to suspect me now, especially if I'm actually right on it being you and Dunnstral.

My paranoid suspect read is Blair. If she's a mafia vigilante, we will keep trusting her and she can just get ignored of all suspicions, especially because she helped get po lynched. I think it might be a good strategy to buy trust for Blair if they are both mafia, but I will think about this more if she is still alive tomorrow.

[Glitch]

I've had the same thought about Blair but honestly she is their most likely target tonight and there's just no way town has any protecting roles left for tonight. If it had been an earlier night they targeted her it may have been thwarted but at tonight if they target her she's probably gone. If she isn't gone tomorrow I will be taking that more into consideration but scum with 2 NKs each night seems really overpowered. We may have a stacked and overpowered town left too though.

Nauci when you asked about either of Truths claims did you mean his Miller Mason claim and his VT claim? His VT claim makes sense to me because I can't imagine Truth having played the way he has all game and be scum that pulled this crazy mason fake claim just to last to the end. I'm open to cases on it but Idk. That + his relationship with popo just rule out a lot of my willingness to consider him scum.

Looker I'm so curious what your thoughts on truth are because you also expressed a desire to lynch there.

Dunnstral can you answer my question about when your read of ndmath went from meta scum reading him but not enough to vote for him - to suddenly seeing my big townie wall that you didn't fully read and then that was enough for you to want to vote him now? What was the progression there?

Sorry I'm replying from my phone so I can't quite stuff well

[Dunnstral]

Chill out, when I started posting I was still getting a feel for the game and then the popopo stuff happened and I got sidetracked talking about that. Today I'm examining everyone with a smaller pool of players

This is my response to that

Mafia Vigilante is not a normal role and SK isn't in minis, so Blair must be town vig

[Blair]

Unless the Popo wagon was all town, there is scum between {Looker / Dunnstral}

Looker voted for Popo before I counterclaimed, based on Norwe's claim, and never moved his vote after that. He also opposed my plan to leave Popo alive and let the real vig shoot him if he's lying. I would think scum would favor this plan, as if buys them time and they may have had roles to interfere with the town vig.

Dunnstral supported leaving Popo alive but opposed the part of my plan where we tell Popo where to shoot. He ultimately joined the Popo wagon, but only after I counterclaimed. This is pretty much exactly what I would expect from scum in this scenario.

VOTE: Dunnstral

C-1

[Blair]

Also worth noting that when Norwe asked directly for a vig counterclaim, Dunnstral opposed this.

[Truth]

Even if it's unusual, could it not still show up sometimes, Dunnstral? When is the last time people here played with a mafia vigilante?

[Glitch]

Chill out, when I started posting I was still getting a feel for the game and then the popopo stuff happened and I got sidetracked talking about that. Today I'm examining everyone with a smaller pool of players

This is my response to that

Mafia Vigilante is not a normal role and SK isn't in minis, so Blair must be town vig

Wrong answer.

I have

intent to hammer

on Dunnstral. I'd really like to hear Lookers thoughts on why he prefers Truth or Nauci over Dunnstral at this point.

[Blair]

Glitch, please don't hammer Dunnstral until everyone weighs in on the other important topic that came up today that I don't really see much discussion around:

We now know for a fact that

Truth fake claimed Miller.

Do we believe a Townie fake claims Miller? Because conventional wisdom says 'No' for obvious reasons, and I'm not sure I buy his explanation that he threw the Miller bit in to make his Mason fake claim more believable.

[Blair]

Matter of fact, UNVOTE: Dunnstral because this topic is important and I've seen quick hammers in nearly every game since I came back this year.

[Glitch]

I won't hammer before I hear from Looker and before Nauci catches up, but once they're active I intend to hammer unless their content sways me a different direction. Or if Dunn makes a comeback that's decent. But this whole page of his is scum caught AF. We'll see as more people weigh in.

[Glitch]

His VT claim makes sense to me because I can't imagine Truth having played the way he has all game and be scum that pulled this crazy mason fake claim just to last to the end. I'm open to cases on it but Idk. That + his relationship with popo just rule out a lot of my willingness to consider him scum.

Blair what are your thoughts on this? Truth is ridiculous but have a hard time seeing him as scum because of his relationship with popo. Do you bekievenhis miller mason claim or his relationship with po are AI?

[Glitch]

His VT claim makes sense to me because I can't imagine Truth having played the way he has all game and be scum that pulled this crazy mason fake claim just to last to the end. I'm open to cases on it but Idk. That + his relationship with popo just rule out a lot of my willingness to consider him scum.

Blair what are your thoughts on this? Truth is ridiculous but I have a hard time seeing him as scum because of his relationship with popo. Do you believe his miller mason claim or his relationship with po are AI?

ebwop sorry phone posting

[Truth]

Blair, if you look at the wiki pages for Miller and Mason, you will see what I mean under Play Advice:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Miller
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason

It does not look like you are supposed to claim mason straight away so I thought it would look suspicious, which is why I tried combining it with miller which it recommends to claim straight away in your opening post.