Micro 952 - The Coalition: ItGBSMoD [game over!]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If doing _____ causes you to become universally townread or gives you a lot of town-cred - then it doesn't make sense for you to say doing _______ means you're definitely not scum - that's kind of what scum want to do - become universally townread.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't mind not being in the co it isn't a great concern to me on if it passes or fails because if I'm in it I have more time to just town tell. Although, that should mean you guys get into focus on who you do townread. It's probably way too risky to put me in the co since people don't seem to townread me and if it fails I'm on the chopping block. With that being said
HURT: all
Good luck!

While you're here Clover,

Is this above post an act or did you mean it?

[Clover Ebi]

Of course I meant it.

[Clover Ebi]

If doing _____ causes you to become universally townread or gives you a lot of town-cred - then it doesn't make sense for you to say doing _______ means you're definitely not scum - that's kind of what scum want to do - become universally townread.

You're acting like the game is that black and white when really it isn't the case. Do you think my partner is inside the co or outside and if it's outside then who

[Clover Ebi]

Also trying to say that scum would just do something for the sake of not making sense/bad scum play isn't really a good argument

it makes exactly as much sense as saying "X isn't scum because X did this thing that Scum wouldn't do if Scum were X"

If you use this kind of logic that would put almost every townread and scumread into question.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Of course I meant it.

ok so why did you end up putting yourself back in the coalition?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If you use this kind of logic that would put almost every townread and scumread into question.

the whole point of the game is to question everything - there aren't any absolute town or scum tells - everything happens in shades of grey

[Clover Ebi]

Of course I meant it.

ok so why did you end up putting yourself back in the coalition?

Because we were getting close to deadline plus Klick said he could convince people not to vote me and since people don't think Klick is scum I'm very confused how people can think I am.

If you use this kind of logic that would put almost every townread and scumread into question.

the whole point of the game is to question everything - there aren't any absolute town or scum tells - everything happens in shades of grey

I'm not disagreeing with you, but saying that I did this action just because it would get me townread as scum isn't really a good way to go about things because you can use that argument for anything. You still haven't answered the most important question on who do you think my partner is. If it's outside the co you're just thinking I did that for a hail mary. If you thought it was inside than that would make more sense but you're just avoiding the question.

[Clover Ebi]

Would I pull that move as scum? No, never. But that's not really a defense. But I don't think you've even pointed out what makes me scummy to begin with.

[Clover Ebi]

The question is never

can

scum do that it's

why

would scum do that. To get townread isn't the answer because that's obviously the base of every mafia game. Am I not making sense do you not get the point I'm trying to make?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Because we were getting close to deadline plus Klick said he could convince people not to vote me and since people don't think Klick is scum I'm very confused how people can think I am.

Even if I was 100% sure Klick is town - it doesn't mean I would 100% trust his opinion of your guilt/innocence one way or the other

[Clover Ebi]

I guess that's where we differ as players

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Would I pull that move as scum? No, never. But that's not really a defense. But I don't think you've even pointed out what makes me scummy to begin with.

I feel like you're not trying very hard - the general feel of your play so far this game has been very soft and go with the flowy like you don't want to be caught out doing something.

Even when you put your vote on me you didn't come after me particularly hard - if you really believed that I'm the scum in the coalition - then why did you not defend Koba when they got ran up to L-1 suddenly after coalition failure? Instead you seemed to be ok with your vote just sitting there on me doing nothing - I don't see why you would do that if you were convinced I should be lynched instead of Koba.

[Clover Ebi]

Why do the qualities you pointed out make me scum? I would disagree with the fact that I'm not trying very hard. But I am a lot more of a relaxed player than most people I've seen considering my style of play. It's not about wanting to get out it's just my personality.

And to answer your second question, it was because Koba was the other person I didn't really mind getting voted after you. I wasn't 100% confident in your scum flip and Koba flipping town would make me reconsider a world with scum you because of how much they were townreading you.

[Clover Ebi]

I've always been a firm believer in teamwork and hearing out other peoples options. When someone has that strong a townread on you like Koba did of course I was going to step back a little. I didn't think you guys were SvS so there had to be some merit in that read. But I was still confident in one of your scum flips. So I didn't really mind who it was that got wagoned between the two of you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because scum are the ones who don't care which townie gets lynched

[Clover Ebi]

If I am to be considered scummy for trusting other peoples opinion over my own than I am the most scummy person you will ever meet.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no if you just sheeped klick you would've voted to lynch koba

you made an active decision to vote for me instead of voting for koba and also to not defend koba or try to push me very hard when koba was almost lynched.

Now the way I read that is you are scum who didn't want his vote to be on koba-town who was going to get lynched but you don't mind him being lynched because you don't really care which townie between Pooky and Koba gets lynched.

[Clover Ebi]

no if you just sheeped klick you would've voted to lynch koba

you made an active decision to vote for me instead of voting for koba and also to not defend koba or try to push me very hard when koba was almost lynched.

Now the way I read that is you are scum who didn't want his vote to be on koba-town who was going to get lynched but you don't mind him being lynched because you don't really care which townie between Pooky and Koba gets lynched.

I voted for you when Koba has 2 votes I was not here when Koba was at L-1 or I would've stated intent. If you'll see I was away from the site. You're just making things up at this point

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you voted for me after klick voted for koba -

when you say you trusted other people's opinion - who exactly are you talking about? the only person voting for me other than you is Aldus.

[Klick]

Also trying to say that scum would just do something for the sake of not making sense/bad scum play isn't really a good argument

it makes exactly as much sense as saying "X isn't scum because X did this thing that Scum wouldn't do if Scum were X"

This is false logic because it doesn't take into account reading the room. In order to think Clover is scum, you have to assume Clover knew he would get townread for his behavior

and

decided it was the best play he could make. I don't think Clover plausibly sees the gamestate going in the direction it did - and if I specifically hadn't pushed for Clover to be townread, it would have had no effect. You're assuming Clover either placed his entire game on someone townreading him for this gambit enough to put him in the coalition, or he already had his buddy in the coalition (in which case he's not the lynch today anyway).

[Klick]

VOTE: Pooky
Your scumread on Clover feels fake.

We have less than a day. I'll be leaving my vote here unless this doesn't take off and there's a viable Sleeper wagon.

[Alduskkel]

how much ya wanna bet that clover is the counterwagon to a scum!pooky?

[Alduskkel]

In fact I've just worked out what exactly it is that's bothering me about the gamestate

A bunch of people asked me to towncase Clover, so I did. And then everyone basically ignored it (except for Koba, who just said they agreed). And now Clover's getting wagoned without any real reasons and without any engagement with my reasons for thinking he's town.

@everyone (but specifically Pooky, Clover and Wug):

I'd like it if you went and looked at my thoughts on Clover in 1234, and gave your thoughts on the towncase there. I've convinced myself that Clover is the most likely player in the game to be town, and if you want to execute Clover then it'd be great if you could tell me why those thoughts aren't valid.

Particularly, if Clover is scum I don't think his play makes any sense in regards to trying to get into a coalition that doesn't lose him the game. UNLESS Clover is scum with someone else in the coalition who has been safe in the coalition for some time. In which case, it makes no sense to vote Clover first.

PEdit: I wanted to post this about an hour ago and it seems Clover and Chemist have already made different parts of my point for me

TBH I think my eyes glazed over a bit when I first read 1234 because of the length. But going over it again I can see your points. I also think Clover-town makes sense considering the game state right now.

I could be completely wrong and Pooky is town and this is big brain play from Klick in a Klick/Clover team but that's just paranoia speaking.

[Alduskkel]

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