Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Hectic]

¶

Votecount 1.15

[3] skitter30:

Kanna, Nahdia, Raven Branwen

[2] midwaybear:

Dunnstral, Clover Ebi

[1] Raven Branwen:

Morning Tweet

[1] lilith2013:

Tuxedo Mask

[1] Nahdia:

skitter

[1] drusilla:

beeboy

[4] Not Voting:

drusilla, Starbuck, midwaybear, lilith2013

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to throw someone down the well.
The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-10 09:18:09).
V/LA section.

[Hectic]

lilith drops a rock into the well and listens carefully, trying to block out the noise of Clover Ebi growling in an attempt to converse with the bear.

She waits and waits, but no splash or thud ever comes.

[Starbuck]

Saturday night and yesterday got a bit busy. Will be hoping to finish catching up today.

[skitter30]

@Skitter, you’re getting “pushback”, because you are so tunnelled on Nahdia, you are ignoring any signs that point against your read on her. 754 doesn’t sound like a scum reaction to being pushed. I don’t understand how you’re not seeing that.

i'm not confbiased and i'm not tunneled. i just very strongly believe they're scum

[skitter30]

From what post(s)?

i'm not actually sure. i just took another look at their iso and i'm not getting those vibes again

[skitter30]

I’m not saying that Skitter has no reason to have qualms about Nahdia but I don’t understand why she is so tunnelled on her. To have Nahdia in her PoE is one thing but I don’t know why she isn’t looking at any other slots.

i think you're dismissing the validity of my push my calling me confbiased and tunneled

[skitter30]

MT makes me really uncomfortable with how hard she is townreading me for reasons I can’t find

i feel p good with mt town actually
also there's a lot of people who are townreading u p hard, why does mt ping you in particular?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter

Not confident on this. I might switch to MT or Star depending on their catchups.

@Skitter, do you currently have a read on me independent of your read on Nahdia?

trying to decide if you're town who tends to townread people who give you townreads and scumreading people who don't, or if you're scum desperately trying to squash scumreads on you

[skitter30]

to be honest, after reading the defense compilation i can see the white-knighting argument, but the fact that the partner thing was pushed so strongly makes me feel like that's fabricated. like there's a disconnect between seeing something that can be pushed as scum vs pushing for the right reasoning, which i felt for that beeboy argument (even though skitter disagrees). there's also been multiple cases of defense, but i'm not sure why skitter calls out this one specifically. nahdia/raven were relatively open to being voted so i can definitely see scum doing something like this, but not really town.

i think that there is some link between nahdia and raven, by virtue of lumping themselves into the same category and defending themselves as a group (and they're both doing this).

i'm not sure if it's:
- scum/scum who feel that since the partner associative got caught out they need to vehemently deny it
- or one of them is scum and is utilizing that link to say that: 'hey, this is a non-scummy behavior. multiple people (including people that i know to be townies!) are doing this'. this is what i meant by tying themselves to one another. i currently think we live in this universe. i think nahdia has seen that raven is getting flak for similar things that they are, and is defending *both* of them together in an attempt to minimize what they're being scumread over. and i think raven likes being defended so is just taking nahdia's side and defending them back.

i'm not really sure how else to articulate what i'm seeing here, or what part you're not understanding/finding scummy

[skitter30]

felt a bit detached(?)

i agree that it's detached but i'm not sure it's anything more than being busy (it seems like they just don't super have time for this game)

[skitter30]

still think drusilla is townie
not particularly impressed with the wagon on me

[lilith2013]

Raven can I get responses to these?

What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

Okay, what’s your read on midway then?

Ironically, one thing I did like about votato’s posting is he wanted more time to sort out MWB. I’m not sure who to vote for yet but I’m sort of getting the feeling that MT is buddying you and I’m also not tr Skitter’s deathtunnell on Nahdia, so rn, I think I’d prefer either to MWB.

It seems like midway responded to this, did you have any thoughts on that? Quote below:

What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

I don't townread him for that; it's more like not really thinking that was scummy. I townread him for trying to sort people and scumhunt. I honestly don't think the PoE post comes from scum either.

Okay then I think I’m back to “I’m still trying to figure out why there weren’t more people jumping on your wagon if you’re town/LHF” unless it’s literally MT and/or votato

Do you have any thoughts on that?

[lilith2013]

Raven, have you posted reads recently that I could reread?

Are you asking if I’ve made any kind of list yet? The answer is no.

I still think Kanna, Clover are town. Lean town on Nahdia, Tux. Null on most, still haven’t made up mind on beeboy, Dunn, you. Drusilla isn’t pinging me and I think MWB could possibly be this game’s Lovebird.

So that leaves MT, Skitter and Star, so I will probably vote amongst those three. I would really like to hear more from Star.

Also can you explain the Tux read? Can you also explain why you asked me about Tux accusing me of slipping and how my response to that affected your read on either me or him?

[lilith2013]

I will admit I've been slowly edging Kanna to my scummy pile but if my townreads are saying she's town I'm more than likely wrong than correct. I should go read Skitter and Nahdia more closely after some tea.

My confident townreads are now looking something like Lilith/Skitter/Beeboy/Raven/Dunnstral

Hey ftr I don’t think kanna is particularly towny, and also you should have more faith in yourself.

I really don’t understand this, don’t you think her thought processes have made logical sense?

I’m lacking the ~townvibing~ feels that I think I should be getting. skitter and beeboy both give me ~townvibing~ feelings.

[lilith2013]

skitter, when you say "raven likes being defended by [nahdia]," is that implying that raven is the S in the SvT? How can nahdia be WKing raven then?

skitter has been openly scumreading nahdia. why were you thinking that could be the case, lilith?

I was super confused by how I read it and I thought that meant there was a huge hole in skitter’s argument (that raven liking being defended = scummy but that wasn’t what skitter was trying to say)

[lilith2013]

i do not mind answering questions with regards to my thought process after the fact as i have learned that this is something people sometimes have difficulty understanding with regards to me (thanks to clidd) but if i am expected to present it alongside the questions it kinda defeats the purpose. how would i ask skitter about a potential town indicative reason for a behaviour without informing her answer without hiding my thought process, for instance?

That’s fair - I don’t think the actual entire thought process needs to be revealed in real time, but I do think that there should be evidence of the thought process happening and evidence of how a push is helping someone sort a slot or move towards a solve, if that makes sense. I’m okay with that as long as I can get information on what the thought process was after the fact.

[lilith2013]

MT makes me really uncomfortable with how hard she is townreading me for reasons I can’t find

i feel p good with mt town actually
also there's a lot of people who are townreading u p hard, why does mt ping you in particular?

I feel like other people who are townreading me can point to a post and say “here’s why I thought this post was towny/here’s why it makes me think Lilith is town.” MT’s townread of me is basically “skitter thinks she’s town and she has a lot of content.” I can’t tell whether she’s actually read any of my posts and thought they were towny, which really bothers me because I feel like she’s just trying to blend in with the other people who are townreading me.

[lilith2013]

btw today’s the official start of my VLA. At a minimum I’m probably not going to be around during the daytime anymore.

[Raven Branwen]

I’m not saying that Skitter has no reason to have qualms about Nahdia but I don’t understand why she is so tunnelled on her. To have Nahdia in her PoE is one thing but I don’t know why she isn’t looking at any other slots.

i think you're dismissing the validity of my push my calling me confbiased and tunneled

Well, I don’t see you expressing suspicion on anyone else. Are you tr everyone but me and Nahdia? Assuming we’re both town, who else do you currently sr?

VOTE: Skitter

Not confident on this. I might switch to MT or Star depending on their catchups.

@Skitter, do you currently have a read on me independent of your read on Nahdia?

trying to decide if you're town who tends to townread people who give you townreads and scumreading people who don't, or if you're scum desperately trying to squash scumreads on you

Fair enough, I am in general far better at seeing through bad pushes on me and less good at seeing through pockets but I honestly don’t think anyone is pocketing me here.

The reason why I am so suspicious of the push on Nahdia is precisely because it’s directly tied to me and vice-versa. If you had independent reasons for sr us both, I wouldn’t be so suspicious. If Nahdia and I were not literally being pushed together by both you and Lillith and Nahdia and me were defending each other to this extent, than I’d totally get the linkng, in fact, I might even be a bit paranoid myself but I believe this is happening in large part, as a direct result of that, so no I think it makes very little sense to me.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven can I get responses to these?

What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

Okay, what’s your read on midway then?

Ironically, one thing I did like about votato’s posting is he wanted more time to sort out MWB. I’m not sure who to vote for yet but I’m sort of getting the feeling that MT is buddying you and I’m also not tr Skitter’s deathtunnell on Nahdia, so rn, I think I’d prefer either to MWB.

It seems like midway responded to this, did you have any thoughts on that? Quote below:

What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

I don't townread him for that; it's more like not really thinking that was scummy. I townread him for trying to sort people and scumhunt. I honestly don't think the PoE post comes from scum either.

Okay then I think I’m back to “I’m still trying to figure out why there weren’t more people jumping on your wagon if you’re town/LHF” unless it’s literally MT and/or votato

Do you have any thoughts on that?

I’m pretty sure you have already asked me a similar version of the exact same questions which I’ve already answered so I doubt very much my response to different variations of them, is going to result in a different answer, so I’m not sure exactly what the point of this is?

But okay, I’ll restate. I thought it scummy that votato’s PoE other than Clover was only amongst the LHF posters which I already explained and stand by. As you know, I’m currently re-evaluating that slot due to my liking Star’s entrance.

I think auto assuming that scum will necessarily push/jump on an LHF wagon, is kind of a wifomy read, because I’ve seen games where that’s precisely what did happen and lots of games where it did not. I’m really not sure what answer you’re hoping to get from this?

[Raven Branwen]

Raven, have you posted reads recently that I could reread?

Are you asking if I’ve made any kind of list yet? The answer is no.

I still think Kanna, Clover are town. Lean town on Nahdia, Tux. Null on most, still haven’t made up mind on beeboy, Dunn, you. Drusilla isn’t pinging me and I think MWB could possibly be this game’s Lovebird.

So that leaves MT, Skitter and Star, so I will probably vote amongst those three. I would really like to hear more from Star.

Also can you explain the Tux read? Can you also explain why you asked me about Tux accusing me of slipping and how my response to that affected your read on either me or him?

He seems to be sorting and and his reasoning behind his thought processes look to be coming from a townie mindset. I can find you specific quotes as to why I think this. He also seems similar here to a recent town game of his that I spectated.

Yes, because the way you were framing your my/Nahdia reads didn’t sound all that different than what Tux had said about it, so I found it rather curious that you accused him of possibly scumslipping with that. Also, eventhough this is a closed setup, it is still a micro, so wouldn’t logic dictate that if Tux had added a third person to his at the time-theoretical team, that would be a lot more suspicious? I just don’t see what about assuming a two person scumteam in micro - closed or otherwise - strikes you as a possible scumslip?

[lilith2013]

He accused me of slipping, not the other way around

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

Can you explain what you think I should have done instead when I didn't have enough information to feel like I could scumread you?

You gave about the answer I expected. I understand wanting to pressure people that are present in the thread. Though I do still find it weird you didn't acknowledge my posts after my push on Beeboy, or how others responded to those posts. Like you were apparently mindmelding on Beeboy, so did that mindmeld break when they gave reasons for unvoting me, or did you agree? Also, you say now you can continue pursuing it now that you know my view of Dunn, is this it? I kind of thought there would be more for the follow up.

What posts do you want me to acknowledge? I was catching up on like 300 posts, I only commented on the stuff I thought was important.

My reads have diverged from beeboy's but that doesn't mean my original reasons for townreading him aren't still valid. As I said, the fact that he was having thoughts so similar to mine is a good sign his thought processes are town thought processes, and I think beeboy really got engaged with the conversations that were happening and wasn't afraid to give his opinions on the wagon that was happening at the time. iirc you disagreed with my description of what happened, but I don't really feel like it's worth arguing with that because you basically seem to have locked in your idea of what happened and I don't wanna put in the effort to argue if I don't think the argument will be successful (ie by changing your mind).

Your continual lack of read on Dunn is problematic, for much the same reasons I was scumreading nahdia. Dunn's wagon was the first big event in this game and instead of giving your opinion on Dunn, you latched onto beeboy instead. That reads as if you are uncomfortable with interacting with the main wagon. The "read" you gave me in response was basically a non-read, so it feels like you went straight for beeboy without thinking about what beeboy's motiviations would have been in defending the dunn wagon there and what that would indicate about dunn's alignment. That's a missing link that I often can't replicate when I'm scum.

I mean if you're talking about Beeboy V. Me I would have expected you to comment on how it concluded. It seems like an odd omission from your catch up.

I don't think breaking a mind-meld with someone implies you don't read them as town. However, since you were hopping on a bunch of Beeboy's posts to comment that you agree and it was the conclusion of Beeboy V. Me I did expect something like "what are you guys doing he doesn't have a Dunn read?" or "I wouldn't unvote here." You know what I'm saying, it feels like a missing link.

Okay now you’re literally using the words I used about you

I talked to beeboy already about that, and at the time you had yet to respond to me about whether you had a read on dunn so that wasn’t something I felt I could bring up as an argument because I didn’t know whether you had a read on dunn when I asked beeboy about you.

I already said that I only commented on things I thought were important. During my catch-up I was more focused on how other people were responding to your interactions with beeboy, as well as the lack of Dunn read from you that persisted, so I guess I didn’t think the ending if the interaction itself was notable.

You really seem to want to 1v1 me here, and like.. your reaction to my one question to you was way overblown. Why are you coming after me so hard? Is it because you saw that dunnstral was called town for pushing me and you want the townpoints too? Sorry, no townpoints for you.

In post 488, lilith2013 wrote:
Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

Can you elaborate on this? Something about it feels very off.

You didn't address this. What did you mean here?

both in my poe -> both had posts that pinged me -> I think both might be scum. What's "off" about this progression?

Why is like 80% of your content in the last several days focused on me?

This is what interests me at the moment.

I didn't complain about the progression.

You asked if it was really so easy as Raven/Nahida, and then said that's where you
are at. That implies you view them as the scum team. Now this pinged me because its a closed set up, and this comes off like a scum slip. Because you seem to think we're looking for two scum. Why?[/quote]
.........

I’m used to playing in micros. For whatever reason, I always initially think it’s two scum. I realized after I made that post that it likely was a three-man scumteam, but I still stand behind that post. Even if they’re not

the

scumteam, I’m still POEd down to them somewhat.[/quote]

Okay, I totally misread this, sorry. @Tux, why did you think Lillith thinking there were two scum in a micro, a “scum slip”?

[Raven Branwen]

He accused me of slipping, not the other way around

Yeah, it’s definitely a silly accusation and generally overused as well. I was in a game with either a semi-open or closed setup and I correctly figured out the setup by putting together literal clues the mod had posted on the first page. I literally had to spend over half that game fighting off tmi scumreads for guessing correctly.

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 12 to Page 15.

Lots of meta conversation that I'm lost on amidst these pages, but I'm slogging through.

I see the whole thing of votato getting frustrated regarding Clover not having scumreads that early. Everyone sorts differently, some scumhunt while others try to sort out who reads as town and go from there. It's a playstyle thing.

In the game I've played with beeboy before he was cool as a cucumber.

+1

I don't know how to feel about Beeboy right now. I feel his reason for defending Dunnstral was fine, but I don't know how to feel about his exchange with me. Some parts feel townie some parts feel scummy. I think its best if I put them on the back burner for now, get distance from my initial read of them. Or else I'm just going to be a tunnely mess.

What felt town and what felt scum? How do you feel now?

I'm not sure what to think of votato having me as logical scum but actually he thought I was town and the logic was wrong. That's weird.

VOTE: lilith

And yes Mr Clover Ebi, I'd like your opinion

What is this Lilith vote about?