Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[lilith2013]

@Starbuck, how have we misrepresented your posts? Where did you say that the reason you wanted me to post less was so that other people could speak? Iirc you’ve only pointed at my post count to say that I’m clogging up the thread and could be scum for flooding, and also to shade me saying that I’m obvtown

[Starbuck]

Oh I left off Nahdia above, she needs to be in the null-ish pile because she reads one way to me and then another post goes the other way, so I need to ISO her like I need to do drusilla.

[Clover Ebi]

VOTE: Starbuck Woohoo!

Okay I feel like I need to play mediator a little because this conversation has gone for pages and I feel like at this point it can let some people just sit back and watch as Lilith/Skitter/Raven/Nahdia post walls at each other.

@Raven/Nahdia do you see how the way you guys are playing around each other could be considered buddying to some extent?
@Skitter How do you feel about joining us on a Starbuck wagon. Also, could you see in a world where Raven/Nahdia are TvT that your logic doesn't make sense in there eyes or do you think all your points have been on point/they should have no problem with it?
@Lilith Good vote

I know at least for me when I see people coming to my defense against a case that I don't think is logical it can lead me to townreading/buddying the other player in question and that may be the case here regardless of AI for Nahdia/Raven. I think the best way to go at this is not base it on team and go for the slots one at a time and figure it out in that matter. Yes, I get Skitter has things that make them look worse together, but that shouldn't be the main point of a read.

I probably missed some points from all parties because I am guilty of skimming a bit but I want to try and settle this with an outside party such as myself or someone else since most of you have me as town it could be easier to bounce your thoughts off of me?

[lilith2013]

How come you’re just voting now?

[Clover Ebi]

Because between midway and Starbuck I would much rather lynch midway. Still do tbh, but if this'll get more attraction I'll do it.

[lilith2013]

Oh I see, fair enough

[Starbuck]

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

Not when you have replacements coming in who are trying to catch up with pages being added onto the back end. I had Tuxedo, I think, ask why it was taking me so long to catch up and it was because I was coming across 11 or 12 posts in a row from you just because you couldn't condense. Spoiler tags are a thing, too. Morning Tweet's big write up in 871 is a great use of the site's features.

@Starbuck, how have we misrepresented your posts? Where did you say that the reason you wanted me to post less was so that other people could speak? Iirc you’ve only pointed at my post count to say that I’m clogging up the thread and could be scum for flooding, and also to shade me saying that I’m obvtown

I've said that I'm working to separate the flooding from reading either of you as scum because I've seen it used as a tactic before. I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but when I express concern and you both are doing everything you can to invalidate that concern that doesn't look very good to me. It seems hypocritical to constructive criticism. I'm not saying to not say what you want to say, but right now the current Activity Overview (located in the bottom right) has you with 191 posts, skitter with 129, followed by Nahdia with 93. You have more than double the posts that Nahdia has on her own.

Spoiler: Posts where I've expressed concern:

No wonder this read-through is becoming slog. I understand re-reading, but folks shouldn't have to endure 12 posts in a row from the same person (i.e. lilith on Page 18). That's just discourteous. Condense it all because it becomes spam/flooding the thread. I'm not sure if this is purposeful yet or not, but I'm noting it.

@Starbuck I don't mean to be rude, but is there a reason your catch up is taking so long?

Caught this as I'm sitting back down. It was a holiday weekend, I've had to work, and then there were pages that kept getting added on the back end as I was catching up, thus, making it longer. I made a comment about that in my above posts when I took a look at the Activity Overview. It feels like the thread is getting flooded and it's just unhelpful.

Additionally, I'm trying to read so I know what's happening and not skim because I don't feel that is courteous to all of you. I know we're coming up on deadline, so I'm trying to get there before it hits.

I wouldn't brag about this and I know it's not just you because I've seen it from others, too. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I feel really bad for anyone else who might need to replace in after me because this catch up has been a slog. There's no reason to have 11 or 12 posts back to back from the same person when you can just hit Q+ at the top corner of the post and do a condensed version with your thoughts. You can even highlight certain sentences in a post and reply to those sentences/questions specifically instead of quoting the whole thing. I'm not being sassy here, really. I want to not wade through pages of the same people just continually responding.

On the other side, there's much to be said about constantly needing to be in the spotlight. I'm not sure if that's NAI or not, but it doesn't necessarily make room for those who want to contribute and will be drowned out.

There's a difference between the way Raven was formatting what she said within one or two posts and consistent flooding of the thread. I wanted to bring it up because it seems unfair to chastise Raven when she just seemed to do a summation of her thoughts. I appreciate her courtesy to the rest of everyone who is playing and I could easily read her thought process. I didn't think it was fair to say to her "well, you don't post in a way that I like, so I'll automatically read you as scum" (or something to that effect). I don't care for backing her into a corner like that.

It's also concerning, given that you're doing it right behind lilith, that you'd point this out. I have felt a sort of tag-team between you and lilith since I started reading, but I was thinking it was because you both might have known each other for a while on site. So I'm trying to separate that from gameplay. However, there's a point when it's concerning that one or two voices seem to be constant. Either you're doing it just because you're responding or you're doing it to purposefully drown everyone else out.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up, but it could also be why some folks are so quiet. They probably feel they can't get a word in edgewise anyways.

[Starbuck]

Describing your own meta in defense of your actions in a current game does nothing for me, by the way. You can tell me all day that you do certain things as town and certain things a scum, but that doesn't mean that you won't change it up in the current game that we're playing.

[Starbuck]

Another thought before I head to my garden for a bit, I see quite a few folks stating my catch up is lackluster or other derogatory adjectives, but none of y'all have tried to interact with me or ask me questions. I have plenty of questions and things to comment on in my catch up, but the lack of wanting to interact (like you've already written me off) is problematic, too.

[Clover Ebi]

An idea: We vote midway and we all interact with Starbuck tomorrow? Eh ehhh? No? Okay I'll just be here

[beeboy]

I don't think Starbuck is town, I was voting Votato before he got banned, but I agree with the above.
Feels weird lynching a slot that caught up just recently.

[Raven Branwen]

@raven I disagree that it’s the same thing, but regardless, I feel like I then spent quite a bit of time engaging you to try to determine if the disconnect I felt was AI whereas starbuck hasn’t done that all, she’s just throwing shade at me and seeing if it will stick

I think that your take on my posting style is similar to Star’s on you. It’s NAI in both cases, especially my making several seemingly unconnected statements. We happen to have different posting styles and mine used to be very similar to yours. Star would probably take issue with it if I were posting that way, so Star and you are both wrong to view either of our posting styles as AI.

Again, yes you have engaged with me but I really don’t see how Star’s take on you is vastly dissimilar to yours on me. I think she’s making the same buddy parallel between you and Skitter that you have made with Nahdia/me, so how are they different? Iow, if you think it makes no sense for her to think you and Skitter might be buddies than how do you not see why you thinking me and Nahdia could be linked at being all that different?
I guess, both Star’s take on you/Skitter doesn’t really seem terribly all that different to me than your take on me/Nahdia.

Other then you extensively engaging me which is true, how are the two basically different? I’m really not following.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Starbuck Woohoo!

Okay I feel like I need to play mediator a little because this conversation has gone for pages and I feel like at this point it can let some people just sit back and watch as Lilith/Skitter/Raven/Nahdia post walls at each other.

@Raven/Nahdia do you see how the way you guys are playing around each other could be considered buddying to some extent?
@Skitter How do you feel about joining us on a Starbuck wagon. Also, could you see in a world where Raven/Nahdia are TvT that your logic doesn't make sense in there eyes or do you think all your points have been on point/they should have no problem with it?
@Lilith Good vote

I know at least for me when I see people coming to my defense against a case that I don't think is logical it can lead me to townreading/buddying the other player in question and that may be the case here regardless of AI for Nahdia/Raven. I think the best way to go at this is not base it on team and go for the slots one at a time and figure it out in that matter. Yes, I get Skitter has things that make them look worse together, but that shouldn't be the main point of a read.

I probably missed some points from all parties because I am guilty of skimming a bit but I want to try and settle this with an outside party such as myself or someone else since most of you have me as town it could be easier to bounce your thoughts off of me?

Why Star?

I rarely have confident scumreads in early game, so it was really more about relating to that than anything else. It’s something I’ve frequently wrongly gotten fos’d for. If someone has a lot of sr this early. I get more worried and these weren’t overly confident reads, so I didn’t understand why anyone thought that was scummy.

[skitter30]

How? Skitter is saying she’s tr me off of meta and still not not walking back her one scum in Nadhia/me theory in the event of a Nahdia townflip. She’s on the one hand is claiming that she would recesses if Nahdia flipped town but she has given no INDEPENDENT reason for thinking I could be scum other than that.

again, i don't think that i said that indepenantly i thought you were scum. in fact, i think i said that if i had to give a read on you indpendantly it would be low-key townie. i'm like 98% certain i know your main, and it's largely a meta read

despite that, there's a weird af associative between you two, and it strengthened after i initially called it out because you two keep defending each other and pushing back on people who push either of you. i no longer think that you're *both* scum because tying yourself to each other is p risky, but i think that you've been pocketed by nahdia and that you like being defended by her so you townread her back and defend her in turn. and nahdia is thus incentivized to keep defending you because by lumping themselves with you they have a defender and can say that other people reading them wrong since they're doing the same things that other townies are doing, right?

i feel like i've said all of this like 19000 times now and i don't know how to explain it better at this point

[skitter30]

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

it depends what era you're from.
current people hate walls, older players hate spamposting, it's an eternal struggle between the two camps

[skitter30]

I think it’s very interesting that you’re sr both Nahdia and Star who aren’t tr you but not Drusilla? And what happened to Dunn aa a counter? You seemed to have dropped that entirely.

What is the difference between Nahdia/Star and Drusilla? Answer: Drusilla isn’t pushing me. That said, I strongly disagree with her Kanna read.

wut
it's not like i townread people because they're townreading me

dru not pushing you doesn't make sense as a reason to townread her? i don't even know what you're saying here

[skitter30]

I'm seeing quite the same between the two of them and it's not even my thoughts of the high density of posts which is now being misrepresented. I'm concerned that they are swapping to voting for anyone who dares say something controversial about them, even if it's just a simple "hey, there are 11 other people in the room, you should let them speak, too." I don't think this pairing off thing is typically a good move on Day 1 but there's some real buddying happening and I'm not a fan.

i think that this is a remarkably uncharitable way to view how me/lilith are interacting and it feels like an attempt to frame a mutual townread as something scummy

[skitter30]

@Skitter How do you feel about joining us on a Starbuck wagon. Also, could you see in a world where Raven/Nahdia are TvT that your logic doesn't make sense in there eyes or do you think all your points have been on point/they should have no problem with it?

yeah i'm trying to disengage but i feel like they keep dragging me back into it ... :/

i guess it's possible that there's some universe where i'm tunneled but i really don't think that's the case

wrt starbuck - like i told lilith earlier, i vastly prefer nahdia but if it collapses (you just switched yoru vote off of nahdia, right?) or my vote is needed at deadline i'd switch there

[skitter30]

I've said that I'm working to separate the flooding from reading either of you as scum because I've seen it used as a tactic before. I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but when I express concern and you both are doing everything you can to invalidate that concern that doesn't look very good to me. It seems hypocritical to constructive criticism. I'm not saying to not say what you want to say, but right now the current Activity Overview (located in the bottom right) has you with 191 posts, skitter with 129, followed by Nahdia with 93. You have more than double the posts that Nahdia has on her own.

i mean it's not like i tried to make a good-faith effort to change posting styles, which was ignored, or expressed my concern over your tuxedo vote/push, which was largely ignored, or anything

[Raven Branwen]

How? Skitter is saying she’s tr me off of meta and still not not walking back her one scum in Nadhia/me theory in the event of a Nahdia townflip. She’s on the one hand is claiming that she would recesses if Nahdia flipped town but she has given no INDEPENDENT reason for thinking I could be scum other than that.

again, i don't think that i said that indepenantly i thought you were scum. in fact, i think i said that if i had to give a read on you indpendantly it would be low-key townie. i'm like 98% certain i know your main, and it's largely a meta read

despite that, there's a weird af associative between you two, and it strengthened after i initially called it out because you two keep defending each other and pushing back on people who push either of you. i no longer think that you're *both* scum because tying yourself to each other is p risky, but i think that you've been pocketed by nahdia and that you like being defended by her so you townread her back and defend her in turn. and nahdia is thus incentivized to keep defending you because by lumping themselves with you they have a defender and can say that other people reading them wrong since they're doing the same things that other townies are doing, right?

i feel like i've said all of this like 19000 times now and i don't know how to explain it better at this point

How is the way she’s defending me more likely to come from scum than town? Yes, she is clearly defending me but I don’t see how you’re necessarily viewing that as a pocket. I guess, I’m asking what specifically about the way she’s defending me screams pocket, because I’m not seeing it?

[Raven Branwen]

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

it depends what era you're from.
current people hate walls, older players hate spamposting, it's an eternal struggle between the two camps

Interesting, I did not know this. What I do know is that geriatric games are my mafia definition of hell, so you are extremely unlikely to ever see me sign up for one.

[Nahdia]

Describing your own meta in defense of your actions in a current game does nothing for me, by the way. You can tell me all day that you do certain things as town and certain things a scum, but that doesn't mean that you won't change it up in the current game that we're playing.

i mean lilith isn't say she would do things

different

as scum. she's saying she literally

could not do

what she is doing rn if she were scum.

[Raven Branwen]

I've said that I'm working to separate the flooding from reading either of you as scum because I've seen it used as a tactic before. I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt but when I express concern and you both are doing everything you can to invalidate that concern that doesn't look very good to me. It seems hypocritical to constructive criticism. I'm not saying to not say what you want to say, but right now the current Activity Overview (located in the bottom right) has you with 191 posts, skitter with 129, followed by Nahdia with 93. You have more than double the posts that Nahdia has on her own.

i mean it's not like i tried to make a good-faith effort to change posting styles, which was ignored, or expressed my concern over your tuxedo vote/push, which was largely ignored, or anything

My opinion is that the posting styles of both you and Lillith are NAI. That said, I never really thought you in particular were flooding the thread/hyper posting.

[midwaybear]

what's up with the starbuck votes?

[Nahdia]

idk man you could try reading the thread and find out??? crazy thought, i know, but it just might work.