Mini Normal 2152 | JDM | Endgame

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: elsa

[Battle Mage]

why is nobody voting for me....?

[Battle Mage]

Elsa is a cheery high energy individual and I hate how they haven't posted yet.

Raya is my only town read her thoughts come from town even if they aren't right I think the aggro is townie. dsjstr is townie for his energy.

Maybe votato but the weakest of the 3 scum would let this game stall and stay dead but votato strikes me as someone to want cred to take charge
I am leaning town because I still think doing this as scum is a mistake.

vote: Elsa

3 scum?

Did the rules say how many scum there were?

this is the sorta thing i'd expect scum to say

VOTE: dsjstr

[Battle Mage]

normally BM is a bit louder than this.

its page 2 and nothing much has happened yet

[Battle Mage]

Elsa is a cheery high energy individual and I hate how they haven't posted yet.

Raya is my only town read her thoughts come from town even if they aren't right I think the aggro is townie. dsjstr is townie for his energy.

Maybe votato but the weakest of the 3 scum would let this game stall and stay dead but votato strikes me as someone to want cred to take charge
I am leaning town because I still think doing this as scum is a mistake.

vote: Elsa

3 scum?

Did the rules say how many scum there were?

this is the sorta thing i'd expect scum to say

VOTE: dsjstr

Have you even fucking looked at max's claim?

what did you think he claimed?

he looks fine to me fyi

[Battle Mage]

Sorry I'm V/LA in all games for 24 hours

[Battle Mage]

What are your thoughts on battle mage? He isnt really playing either. Why does he get a pass?

hey im playing!

I'm trying to find a place in this game tbh. I feel like this group doesn't need a comic relief so I'm not doing that, but... Honestly I'm looking at this 8p and realize 2 mis-word pendings and we lose. So I'm thinking hard RN, but mainly I feel like following another's lead. So.

If you vote me for being an open follower be my guest, but I just think I'll get better results not mucking up this game with my usual style.

Micros are Weird.

look i found scum

VOTE: Elsa Jay

easy

[Battle Mage]

If I was that easy I wouldn't have my title now would I?

But continue and realize after I die, not only do you not get associations, but you only get one mislynch here. Make it count.

A desperate plea here....really!? Giving up already is not the best look, and I don't buy anything you've said anyway (as you haven't backed it up).

[Battle Mage]

But continue and realize after I die, not only do you not get associations, but you only get one mislynch here. Make it count.

What would be the better lynch?

you're not voting elsa here!?

[Battle Mage]

Huh? My vote is literally one post above yours?

ah i got you confused with somebody else

[Battle Mage]

hang on....no! I was...just testing you...

[Battle Mage]

i think votato will be replaced due to ban.

[Battle Mage]

beeboy doesn't interest me today. let's flip Elsa first and then decide if Beeboy was shading his scumbuddy, or just doing the Lord's work in the early stages.

[Battle Mage]

@mod he got banned, viewtopic.php?p=11953996&f=4#p11953996

Brilliant, I definitely missed

that

memo.

votato is being replaced.

They have been banned indefinitely, and must be replaced in all games.

hey i did say in post 119

[Battle Mage]

I'm baffled at anyone suggesting Elsa looks town here. Baffled!

My vote ain't moving.

[Battle Mage]

If I was that easy I wouldn't have my title now would I?

But continue and realize after I die, not only do you not get associations, but you only get one mislynch here. Make it count.

A desperate plea here....really!? Giving up already is not the best look, and I don't buy anything you've said anyway (as you haven't backed it up).

What makes you think Elsa's entrance is scummy?

duuuuuude did you read post 90? i don't think i've

ever

seen a scummier lead-in to a mafia game.

I am 96% sure Elsa is scum here, and 100% sure I want to lynch him today and won't compromise on that.

[Battle Mage]

V/LA for 48 hours

[Battle Mage]

I'm baffled at anyone suggesting Elsa looks town here. Baffled!

My vote ain't moving.

Well your attitude of only having 1 lynch target isn't very townie either now is it?

It's perfectly "townie", I'm extremely confident you're scum. You could argue it's overconfidence, but suggesting it's scum-indicative or even anti-town is dubious (although completely consistent with your shady play so far).

[Battle Mage]

If I was that easy I wouldn't have my title now would I?

But continue and realize after I die, not only do you not get associations, but you only get one mislynch here. Make it count.

A desperate plea here....really!? Giving up already is not the best look, and I don't buy anything you've said anyway (as you haven't backed it up).

What makes you think Elsa's entrance is scummy?

duuuuuude did you read post 90? i don't think i've

ever

seen a scummier lead-in to a mafia game.

I am 96% sure Elsa is scum here, and 100% sure I want to lynch him today and won't compromise on that.

Can you explain why because I don't find it as scummy as you do and her recent posts come across as genuine to me.

I don't completely disagree with you - I think his posting is genuine, and actually quite a candid disclosure of scum struggling to keep up any pretence. His posts have been full of up-front excuses, which largely amount to "don't expect me to do much effort, but it doesn't make me scum, and you should feel guilty if you lynch me". When I have more time I will give my interpretation of his ISO so far.

[Battle Mage]

Well I made sure to use my previous nickname of you to show I recognized you.

Battle Mage not having an icon is a statement in itself. You having a white box? What's the symbolism?

I have played with you before as town, and even though you were eliminated very early, you were significantly better than this. I simply don't buy that you, as town, are hoping/expecting to cruise through the game without contributing on the promise of being able to solve the game in LyLo.

[Battle Mage]

Hello. Are we eliminating Elsa today?

Yep!

[Battle Mage]

If any scum were on my wagon it would probably more likely be BM for being opportunistic but lets put pressure on Max

You think he's more likely to be scum but are voting me because...I deserve to be pressured? Wouldn't it make more sense to pressure your scumread? What are you hoping to accomplish here?

This is why RVS sucks, the game has had all the energy of a fat elderly cat on a hot summer day for the first 4 pages. I was hoping to wait it out until there was something more substantial but it seems like that's unlikely to happen on its own so I'll work with what I've got. Most of the people in this game are varying degrees of scummy, not much in the way of solid townreads.

beeboy

- Townreads in 38 feel like they come a bit too easy and the vote on elsa feels lazy, a push toward an inactive player rather than scrutinizing people who have actually posted.

dsjstr

- bizarre, overemotional, defensive response to what has really been very minor prodding on my end, 59 has a bit of "why me" to it, lot of complaining about other people but not much in the way of atempts at engagement with them. Maybe I'm a bit tunneled but have a hard time seeing this as a town reaction.

votato

- mostly fillery which is to be expected from early game but 33 + 35 is a weird ask for page 2 as if it's possible to have a list of reads, looks like a forced to attempt to look town by asking a serious question early, but never has any real followup to this so it seems like he didn't much actually care what people said in response. scum lean here but I guess we have to wait to see how the replacement does.

raya36

- I like the way she's shown a seriousness to her approach to the game and is trying to ask meaningful questions. The reasoning in 67/68 looks like a believable town mindset of someone trying to scumhunt as well as the way she interrogated beeboy.

elsa jay

- basically nothing so far but I somewhat like the admission of just wanting to follow someone in 90, feels more likely someone would admit this as town than as scum. current push on her feels like low hanging fruit.

battle mage

- almost everything posted so far reads null, disagree with the push on elsa but the conviction behind it is believable from the way he's doing it.

testarossa

- I don't really like how waffle-y her posts get, in 46 and 47 for instance she ultimately just says something to the effect of "could go either way." 109 rubs me the wrong way with the jump on Elsa Jay.

At this point I suspect half the people in the game, so I'm going to ask everyone a question to try to get some substance in here:

@beeboy:

What is your read on dsjstr?

@dsjstr:

What is your read on Testarossa?

@raya36:

What is your read on Elsa Jay?

@elsa jay:

What is your read on Battle Mage?

@battle mage:

What is your read on beeboy?

@testarossa:

Why does Raya36 look town to you?

Am I the only one that finds this post incredibly scummy btw?

....yes, you might be. I don't think anyone would describe it as "incredibly scummy". I'd go with something like "mildly town indicative".

VOTE: maxwell

eh!?

[Battle Mage]

i dont understand why beeboy and max are afraid to vote elsa. I guess scum has no incentive to bus today given the numbers.

[Battle Mage]

What part of that is mildly town indicative?

the post seemed like a lot of effort (spoiler: I haven't read it) - If he was Elsa's partner, I don't see why he would bother here, given the lack of detail on display.

[Battle Mage]

I found your issue, you didn't read it.

Every single read is non committal to some degree, the only town degree is on Raya so he is leaving himself open to push every other player.
The questions at the bottom of the post aren't followed up on.
The question at the bottom aren't related to the blurb about the player a large portion of the time.

It's the definition of a high effort easy to make scum post. Idk I think it's impossible to read that post and think its a town post with some kind of purpose. Town would be aware they scum read everyone but one player and make some note on it, town would follow up on questions, town questions would line up with their thoughts. None of that is happening.

Scum team is Maxwell and Elsa, easy game.

Counterpoint: Perhaps your issue is you read it in a vacuum. It's certainly possible he could do it as scum, but generally in my (decade plus of) mafia experience, I see this from town more than scum (regardless of the quality which you question). It looks a bit like you're picking on him because he has opened himself up - after all, it's not as if you've done those good pro-town things you yourself cite. I'm not suggesting you're doing so intentionally - you could be understandably trying to read something into a big post to get the game moving, as either alignment.

However, trying to derail the Elsa-elimination whilst also shading him as scum....is not a good look. I wouldn't be shocked to see a Beeboy-Elsa scumteam.

To be clear, I'm not remotely interested in exiling maxwell, given we are eliminating Elsa-scum today. I will read up and re-evaluate in full on Day 2 unless I get NKed.

[Battle Mage]

It's ok when Maxwell flips scum we can solve the game through mechanics like all good mafia games B)

in other words, mislynch maxwell today, and then find some mechanical excuse not to lynch your second suspect Elsa tomorrow?

[Battle Mage]

Hey, I'll catch up soon. No Eliminate is a solid alternative if scum wins at parity.

Not to agree with Spider-Man but if there's a no exe it becomes a 5-2 with the knowledge scum used to kill someone night one.

It also garuntees the PRs get 2 nights to act instead of just 1 which puts is in instant MyLo

We are not No-eliminating today, gimme a break!

[Battle Mage]

I don't think there's any guarantee of an investigative role in the setup, I'd prefer to play day 1 as normal and sentence someone. Setups on this site aren't designed around the idea of no elimination on day 1 and wouldf imagine this was designed around preserving that meta.

It's beneficial even if there are no investigative roles (unlikely).

What gives you that confidence? You've been registered on this site for a month. I am telling you, point blank, it's entirely possible there's no investigative role and there's a power role that can either be an extra kill or prevent a kill. I've seen plenty of Normal queue games and I know that's likely the case.

That I didn't consider,..
Absolutely agree with your point on preserving said meta...
It does NOT make sense for a setup to benefit NEing D1.,.,

@beeboy, if Elsa's absence is justified, why put him in your solve?
@Elsa, what did you mean by 179?
@BM, do you have any reads that aren't scum!Elsa?

124 puzzles me. Four out of the seven reads look like setting up mislynches to pursue in case one of them gained traction, and you know this.
VOTE: Raya36 while I try to understand 175, because beeboy had a valid read. Nothing against you.

There's probably like 2 scum. why would i bother trying to find the partner today when we havent even lynched the easy one?

[Battle Mage]

Can you explain why because I don't find it as scummy as you do and her recent posts come across as genuine to me.

Genuineness can come from both sides though. Why do you think it comes here rather from town? I assume your change of opinion is based on 125 going by your 124?

Yes that's correct. I found her list of reasons to be valid and while it maybe be weak I get a sort of tonal gut read on her being town due to the genuinueity. The last point doesn't really come off as something scum would admit.

Hello. Are we eliminating today?

I'm just gonna put it out there that I'm not for eliminating elsa today. Not just for her not participating yet. Let her talk about AI stuff so we can determine if her excuses are likely true and she's town or if she's scum we can get a better read on her than just "not participating, must be scum". That said: I want participation Elsa!

This is a disgusting misrepresentation of the fledgling Elsa-wagon. And, unrelated but it gives me the creeps when people limply imply lack of participation will eventually be alignment indicative as some sort of threat to get them engaged.

I don't care much for trying to solve the entire game on Day 1, and think that any change of focus away from eliminating Elsa would cause the town to unravel further. I won't be the catalyst for that.

[Battle Mage]

Sorry I'm a little late here folks.

Took a mental break from the site for 2 days.

Hope I'm still in this game, which I assume I am since in being voted.

Black: Apology for being late - not really necessary, but not meaningful in itself.
Red: Excuse for being late, referenced "from the site" to imply NAI here - more unnecessary explanation for absence, and a bit overdefensive (as if pre-occupied with the prospect of getting shade for this).
Green: "Hope I'm still in this game" - obvious he is still in the game, otherwise he wouldnt be posting. why say this? not real talk, just a 'tail between legs' performance.

I'm trying to find a place in this game

tbh

. I feel like this group doesn't need a comic relief so I'm not doing that, but...

Honestly

I'm looking at this 8p and realize 2 mis-word pendings and we lose.

So I'm thinking hard RN, but mainly I feel like following another's lead. So.

If you vote me for being an open follower be my guest,

but

I just think I'll get better results not mucking up this game with my usual style.

Micros are Weird.

Despite previous apology for not being here and relief(?) at not being cut, when you might expect next posts to be catching up and contributing, instead it's just excuses for struggling to engage. It's a short game, moving slowly - I don't buy for a second that Elsa-town would be incapable of making something happen here, or at least keeping up with the limited content on offer. With only 8 players, game may not go long - even a novice who frequently sheeps in larger games would conclude sheeping is a poor strategy here, especially with no good reason. 2 "honestly" scumtells, in bold above. It doesn't feel like Elsa wants to play here, and that his main objective is quite clearly survival, rather than trying to contribute to lynching scum. Classic lazy-scum. Other highlights:

Red: Over-defensive again. Why is Elsa-town so obsessively pre-occupied with trying to avoid getting votes? Quite clear from the way this is worded that Elsa feels like that being an "open" follower should buy him some towncred - as if being shameless about it makes it more excusable.

Blue: Definitely uncomfortable with the game, but why? Why would Elsa, who is an experienced and competent player, be so completely unable to engage with a game this straightforward? I could understand simply lurking, but by being honest, it seems like Elsa has played himself out of the hand. Being honest about being scummy isn't town indicative, especially when it's being used as an attempt to garner pity - it's scum indicative. This feels entirely like scum who isn't quite sure how to approach the game. Town-Elsa wouldn't be so inhibited and frankly, nervous.

Green: the very principle of following someone else, despite clearly having put some thought into the game, doesn't sit right. At best, it's anti-town behaviour, and not something I'd expect from Elsa-town. Looks to just be an excuse to ride someone's coattails and not pretend to scumhunt (which is undue effort for scum, and paramount MO for town).

Italics: Implies Elsa expects to reap benefits at some point later in the game. But how does Elsa know he will be alive later in the game?

Do you have any reads or thoughts Elsa?

Eh.

I think Beeboy jumped on the gone slot too soon, particularly as someone who didn't see my VLA message or status, and probably also knows I really like playing scum.

Might've been VLA but... Still feels weird to pick me out of the crowd.

"eh"?? - was Elsa really not expecting to answer any questions? This from Raya isn't particularly taxing, which is perhaps telling in itself. Only thought is OMGUS against Beeboy. Not a good justification - it's always good practice for town to pressure quiet people early in smaller games, because scum can feasibly see a route to victory through lurking. Again, the thrust of his post above is giving excuses for himself, rather than talking about Beeboy or anyone else. He prematurely asserts here, in his own defense, that he isn't scum because he would be more engaged as scum. Self-meta never great, especially when unprovoked, and I know this self-meta to be inaccurate, as I've played with Elsa-town and seen him much more engaged than this. And Elsa-town is a more sophisticated scumhunter than this lame effort. Also throws up the VLA defence again - even more unnecessary than last time - nobody would be lynching Elsa today because he was VLA for 2 days. Way too defensive.

Jester you still haven't found an icon for yourself? The white box makes me eanna glance over you.

non-game-related junk

If I was that easy I wouldn't have my title now would I?

But continue and realize after I die, not only do you not get associations, but you only get one mislynch here. Make it count.

this is Elsa's response to my original vote. Interesting that he again confidently asserts that there's only 1 mislynch, although this is not open setup - implies he has knowledge of number of scum.

I've split response into 2 parts, red and blue again:

Red: Claims he wouldn't be scum because it would be too easy, as if that is meant to convince me - presumably because he knows he's been very scummy here, or else is paranoid about his own scumminess. Either way, it's vindication of my suspicion, and makes me question why others haven't jumped on this.

Blue: Is that a threat? or a guilt-trip? No value in it either way, as there's no actual reason here to make me think he's town. Odd claim that with his lynch I'd get no associations - that's something I can't imagine town saying, because as town, do you really worry about associations!? It seems like quite a candid take that Elsa is intentionally not interacting properly here to avoid implicating their scumbuddy. The appeal to emotion here is an escalation of the previous over-defensive behaviour, Elsa has 1 or 2 votes at this point, with near unanimity (5/7) required to lynch - the defeatist vibe still seems like overkill to me.

To Raya: I'm not being vocal for multiple reasons I guess.

1 is that I

legit

forgot I signed up for this game and came in with my dress off, so to say. So I came in at a disadvantage.

2 is that I'm not 100% in my mind RN so I'm taking it slow to get back into things. I do wanna help, just... I'm working on it.

3 is... More I guess I don't have someone to bounce off of yet.

More excuses for not posting. Let's break them down!

1. The game is like 8 pages or something? Not sure what it was at this point. But it's hardly an insurmountable amount of content to get to grips with and catch up, especially given PRETTY MUCH NOTHING HAPPENED! The attempt to garner sympathy here is pretty transparent, and I'm surprised anyone bought it. Also, this reason is different to the earlier excuses for not posting (taking a 2 day break from the site). Use of word "legit" here, is in similar camp to the "honestly" tells as an old-school classic scumslip. Why would we assume you didn't "legit" forget you signed up to the game? Again, overly defensive.

2. I don't have much to say on this, but I would observe that Elsa has been perfectly able to post with reasonable frequency, and has responded when he is under pressure.

3. I'm not sure how Elsa expects to ever get anyone to "bounce off" with his attitude, particularly in the preceding post, of not liking it when people ask him easy questions. Nobody is buying this one - assume it's just here because 3 is a good number of points to have, and there weren't any more "legit" excuses.

I'm baffled at anyone suggesting Elsa looks town here. Baffled!

My vote ain't moving.

Well your attitude of only having 1 lynch target isn't very townie either now is it?

OMGUS against me now. Implies my suspicion of him is scum-indicative; unsubstantiated and untrue. It's tetchy, and obviously affected, but still not enough to wake Elsa from his slumber.

I was telling you an out of game opinion. I like it when people pick nice avis. Let's me see their personalities.

The first in a series of non-game-related junk, to boost the post count.

Well I made sure to use my previous nickname of you to show I recognized you.

Battle Mage not having an icon is a statement in itself. You having a white box? What's the symbolism?

non-game-related junk

That I'm still mad at you for that one time you abandoned a game Bambi signed up for when she was excited for it.

non-game-related junk

Hello. Are we eliminating today?

Why must you have that cursed icon... Spider-Man has traumatized me.

non-game-related junk

Considering you have me as the scum team beebee it's wrong sadly.

Quite clear that all Elsa cares about here is not being suspected himself. No attempt to engage beyond the "I'm not scum doe".

Not to agree with Spider-Man but if there's a no exe it becomes a 5-2 with the knowledge scum used to kill someone night one.

It also garuntees the PRs get 2 nights to act instead of just 1 which puts is in instant MyLo

Supporting (note, not leading) an anti-town push for a no-execution on Day 1. It's closed setup, day start. Very rare that No-execution is going to benefit town more than scum here. Given town may have protective role(s), this is not the right play, and Elsa is bright enough to know that.

So your saying follow meta, kill me, watch PR get NKed, then exe the second wrong person and lose?

as above, pushing pro-scum strategy, piggybacking off somebody else.

I mean it as in all the Spider-Man x Elsa shit on the internet.

I'm traumatized in the meme way not the serious way. Keep your icon bro.

Are you seriously suggesting you want to do naughty things with Spidey?

More non-game-related junk.

And that is literally all of Elsa's posts.

[Battle Mage]

Man I feel bad knowing how much effort your putting into scumreading me so hard, even though I'm town.

Seeing your thought process on even the minute things is weird. Like you made a paragraph dedicated to me going "eh".

I'll keep playing like I am though because altering my personality is hard so I guess I'll have to lookout for Battle Mage always reading me weird.

I read you as town in our last game, and you were town.

And believe me, it's the minute details which you need to watch out for. This sort of analysis is super helpful with "train of thought" posters like yourself, who don't use a filter.

Again, the appeal to emotion and plea for pity is telling. You are trying to undermine me with your post above, and it's a really tame effort.

[Battle Mage]

I'm just saying your putting to much effort into minor details. The fact your scumreading EVERYTHING is confirmation bias now.

It's a buffet - people are free to choose the reasons they like. I've simply laid out an array of scummy things you've done - that's like my job!

[Battle Mage]

If I absolutely had to compromise on an Elsa lynch, I'd go with his buddy, Raya.

Claims scum with a fake partner:

VOTE: votato
I'm scum and votato is my partner. Lynch us to win.

Then claims tippytop townread is partly because someone claimed scum, and scum wouldn't do that....lol....

Towniest is you but for very flimsy reasons. Posting a lot,

scum probably doesnt come in claiming scum lol

, also you're trying to break rvs.

Beeboy is my scummiest for not participating in rvs right away. I also remember them coming across very obvtown very quickly last game together and I'm not getting that feeling at all this game. Although last game they were claimed NU.

I can't say much for in between right now but if you really want me to I can try to make a full list in the morning

[Battle Mage]

see Elsa talks a big game about no associations, but I can't agree. I looked at Raya's ISO, you see. An unusually high amount of focus dedicated to commenting on Elsa. A bond from beyond? perhaps. or more likely, just scumchums.

Raya-Elsa are scum, I've cracked it!

[Battle Mage]

see Elsa talks a big game about no associations, but I can't agree. I looked at Raya's ISO, you see. An unusually high amount of focus dedicated to commenting on Elsa. A bond from beyond? perhaps. or more likely, just scumchums.

Raya-Elsa are scum, I've cracked it!

Do you still think they are the scum team based on the new votes?

yes, it would definitely be my first pick.

Man I feel bad knowing how much effort your putting into scumreading me so hard, even though I'm town.

Seeing your thought process on even the minute things is weird. Like you made a paragraph dedicated to me going "eh".

I'll keep playing like I am though because altering my personality is hard so I guess I'll have to lookout for Battle Mage always reading me weird.

"I'll keep playing like I am though because altering my personality is hard"

Basically just admitting that they are scum and struggled to sound towny. I am not a fan of how they try to guilt BM for sussing them of being the mafia.

exactly

[Battle Mage]

Hm, feel kind of iffy about both votes. Raya's vote is more puzzling to me, like you still seem to think she is town.

Are you not scumreading anyone?

i think raya has realised elsa's goose is cooked sooner or later, and sensibly gone for a bus now.

I am ready for the hammer to be dropped!

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Elsa Jay L-1

Fine we won't get Maxwell.

Ludicrously scummy move. Seriously. Does no one else see this?

putting scum at -1? jury's out as to whether that's scummy.

[Battle Mage]

can someone please hammer already? for goodness sake...

If I die tonight, flip Raya tomorrow obviously.

[Battle Mage]

dude just get it done

[Battle Mage]

Never seen someone want me dead so bad.

Obviously town don't listen to him tommorow even id I don't townread him.

If any of you read Team Mafia 2020 though you'll realize this behavior isn't unique here either.

oops, you said you did townread me earlier. and i wasnt even in team mafia 2020, so that's a lame effort.

Testy is obvtown though

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

Sorry I'm a little late here folks.

Took a mental break from the site for 2 days.

Hope I'm still in this game, which I assume I am since in being voted.

Black: Apology for being late - not really necessary, but not meaningful in itself.
Red: Excuse for being late, referenced "from the site" to imply NAI here - more unnecessary explanation for absence, and a bit overdefensive (as if pre-occupied with the prospect of getting shade for this).
Green: "Hope I'm still in this game" - obvious he is still in the game, otherwise he wouldnt be posting. why say this? not real talk, just a 'tail between legs' performance.

I'm trying to find a place in this game

tbh

. I feel like this group doesn't need a comic relief so I'm not doing that, but...

Honestly

I'm looking at this 8p and realize 2 mis-word pendings and we lose.

So I'm thinking hard RN, but mainly I feel like following another's lead. So.

If you vote me for being an open follower be my guest,

but

I just think I'll get better results not mucking up this game with my usual style.

Micros are Weird.

Despite previous apology for not being here and relief(?) at not being cut, when you might expect next posts to be catching up and contributing, instead it's just excuses for struggling to engage. It's a short game, moving slowly - I don't buy for a second that Elsa-town would be incapable of making something happen here, or at least keeping up with the limited content on offer. With only 8 players, game may not go long - even a novice who frequently sheeps in larger games would conclude sheeping is a poor strategy here, especially with no good reason. 2 "honestly" scumtells, in bold above. It doesn't feel like Elsa wants to play here, and that his main objective is quite clearly survival, rather than trying to contribute to lynching scum. Classic lazy-scum. Other highlights:

Red: Over-defensive again. Why is Elsa-town so obsessively pre-occupied with trying to avoid getting votes? Quite clear from the way this is worded that Elsa feels like that being an "open" follower should buy him some towncred - as if being shameless about it makes it more excusable.

Blue: Definitely uncomfortable with the game, but why? Why would Elsa, who is an experienced and competent player, be so completely unable to engage with a game this straightforward? I could understand simply lurking, but by being honest, it seems like Elsa has played himself out of the hand. Being honest about being scummy isn't town indicative, especially when it's being used as an attempt to garner pity - it's scum indicative. This feels entirely like scum who isn't quite sure how to approach the game. Town-Elsa wouldn't be so inhibited and frankly, nervous.

Green: the very principle of following someone else, despite clearly having put some thought into the game, doesn't sit right. At best, it's anti-town behaviour, and not something I'd expect from Elsa-town. Looks to just be an excuse to ride someone's coattails and not pretend to scumhunt (which is undue effort for scum, and paramount MO for town).

Italics: Implies Elsa expects to reap benefits at some point later in the game. But how does Elsa know he will be alive later in the game?

Do you have any reads or thoughts Elsa?

Eh.

I think Beeboy jumped on the gone slot too soon, particularly as someone who didn't see my VLA message or status, and probably also knows I really like playing scum.

Might've been VLA but... Still feels weird to pick me out of the crowd.

"eh"?? - was Elsa really not expecting to answer any questions? This from Raya isn't particularly taxing, which is perhaps telling in itself. Only thought is OMGUS against Beeboy. Not a good justification - it's always good practice for town to pressure quiet people early in smaller games, because scum can feasibly see a route to victory through lurking. Again, the thrust of his post above is giving excuses for himself, rather than talking about Beeboy or anyone else. He prematurely asserts here, in his own defense, that he isn't scum because he would be more engaged as scum. Self-meta never great, especially when unprovoked, and I know this self-meta to be inaccurate, as I've played with Elsa-town and seen him much more engaged than this. And Elsa-town is a more sophisticated scumhunter than this lame effort. Also throws up the VLA defence again - even more unnecessary than last time - nobody would be lynching Elsa today because he was VLA for 2 days. Way too defensive.

Jester you still haven't found an icon for yourself? The white box makes me eanna glance over you.

non-game-related junk

If I was that easy I wouldn't have my title now would I?

But continue and realize after I die, not only do you not get associations, but you only get one mislynch here. Make it count.

this is Elsa's response to my original vote. Interesting that he again confidently asserts that there's only 1 mislynch, although this is not open setup - implies he has knowledge of number of scum.

I've split response into 2 parts, red and blue again:

Red: Claims he wouldn't be scum because it would be too easy, as if that is meant to convince me - presumably because he knows he's been very scummy here, or else is paranoid about his own scumminess. Either way, it's vindication of my suspicion, and makes me question why others haven't jumped on this.

Blue: Is that a threat? or a guilt-trip? No value in it either way, as there's no actual reason here to make me think he's town. Odd claim that with his lynch I'd get no associations - that's something I can't imagine town saying, because as town, do you really worry about associations!? It seems like quite a candid take that Elsa is intentionally not interacting properly here to avoid implicating their scumbuddy. The appeal to emotion here is an escalation of the previous over-defensive behaviour, Elsa has 1 or 2 votes at this point, with near unanimity (5/7) required to lynch - the defeatist vibe still seems like overkill to me.

To Raya: I'm not being vocal for multiple reasons I guess.

1 is that I

legit

forgot I signed up for this game and came in with my dress off, so to say. So I came in at a disadvantage.

2 is that I'm not 100% in my mind RN so I'm taking it slow to get back into things. I do wanna help, just... I'm working on it.

3 is... More I guess I don't have someone to bounce off of yet.

More excuses for not posting. Let's break them down!

1. The game is like 8 pages or something? Not sure what it was at this point. But it's hardly an insurmountable amount of content to get to grips with and catch up, especially given PRETTY MUCH NOTHING HAPPENED! The attempt to garner sympathy here is pretty transparent, and I'm surprised anyone bought it. Also, this reason is different to the earlier excuses for not posting (taking a 2 day break from the site). Use of word "legit" here, is in similar camp to the "honestly" tells as an old-school classic scumslip. Why would we assume you didn't "legit" forget you signed up to the game? Again, overly defensive.

2. I don't have much to say on this, but I would observe that Elsa has been perfectly able to post with reasonable frequency, and has responded when he is under pressure.

3. I'm not sure how Elsa expects to ever get anyone to "bounce off" with his attitude, particularly in the preceding post, of not liking it when people ask him easy questions. Nobody is buying this one - assume it's just here because 3 is a good number of points to have, and there weren't any more "legit" excuses.

I'm baffled at anyone suggesting Elsa looks town here. Baffled!

My vote ain't moving.

Well your attitude of only having 1 lynch target isn't very townie either now is it?

OMGUS against me now. Implies my suspicion of him is scum-indicative; unsubstantiated and untrue. It's tetchy, and obviously affected, but still not enough to wake Elsa from his slumber.

I was telling you an out of game opinion. I like it when people pick nice avis. Let's me see their personalities.

The first in a series of non-game-related junk, to boost the post count.

Well I made sure to use my previous nickname of you to show I recognized you.

Battle Mage not having an icon is a statement in itself. You having a white box? What's the symbolism?

non-game-related junk

That I'm still mad at you for that one time you abandoned a game Bambi signed up for when she was excited for it.

non-game-related junk

Hello. Are we eliminating today?

Why must you have that cursed icon... Spider-Man has traumatized me.

non-game-related junk

Considering you have me as the scum team beebee it's wrong sadly.

Quite clear that all Elsa cares about here is not being suspected himself. No attempt to engage beyond the "I'm not scum doe".

Not to agree with Spider-Man but if there's a no exe it becomes a 5-2 with the knowledge scum used to kill someone night one.

It also garuntees the PRs get 2 nights to act instead of just 1 which puts is in instant MyLo

Supporting (note, not leading) an anti-town push for a no-execution on Day 1. It's closed setup, day start. Very rare that No-execution is going to benefit town more than scum here. Given town may have protective role(s), this is not the right play, and Elsa is bright enough to know that.

So your saying follow meta, kill me, watch PR get NKed, then exe the second wrong person and lose?

as above, pushing pro-scum strategy, piggybacking off somebody else.

I mean it as in all the Spider-Man x Elsa shit on the internet.

I'm traumatized in the meme way not the serious way. Keep your icon bro.

Are you seriously suggesting you want to do naughty things with Spidey?

More non-game-related junk.

And that is literally all of Elsa's posts.

Eh, I honestly think this is pretty legit.
I'm feeling town!mage.

VOTE: Nash

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Nash

I could get on this

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Elsa

[Battle Mage]

I actually buy the VT claim. Pretty sure scum would have tried a fakeclaim to bait a town pr in such a small setup. But whatever.

Kind of frustrating, but still think there was scum on this wagon.

i did wonder this, but given the pace of play we don't have time to do anything else, and I'd be reticent to let Elsa off the hook for that reason alone given I could definitely see him not giving a crap as scum here.

[Battle Mage]

post i quoted was scummy - honesty tell and just awkward.

[Battle Mage]

Since I'm hammered now.

If you care to know, I'm a VT but my motivation for this game is shite. So.

So yeah get rid of me and pray the PR doesn't get hit. With no Crumbs in MYXO (or whatever it's called now) basically be careful of who says they got a guilty because one more wrong execute and they win.

Still a decent reason to not exe anyone so scum don't get the freedom to claim like that but whatever.

Enjoy your game guys. Sorry you couldn't tell my demotivation is my semi VT tell. That's why I suggested one of you read TM2020 first to see

this isn't the first time I lost motivation mid game.

mid game!? it's Day 1, and you had no motivation from the very outset.

[Battle Mage]

I never miss.. maybe....

[Battle Mage]

also, let's not discount the idea that Raya realised she was in trouble and self-NKed.

I wonder about a massclaim?

[Battle Mage]

it's debatable today I think.

[Battle Mage]

I don't like the idea to mass claim while we are still in evens.
I am open to no lynching then mass claiming or just playing this phase normally.

Although you guys can do what you want.

there's no way we're no-lynching after what happened last night dude, come on.

I'm open to persuasion either way on mass-claim. Saying we don't do it cause we're at evens is not persuasive.

[Battle Mage]

I think it's most likely Nash today, but this is weird with the benefit of flips:

VOTE: Raya

Very passive and middle of the road, also has disappeared.

I'm against not hammering D1

Before you answer I'm going to let you know this is a reaction test.

[Battle Mage]

With lack of a kill + confirmed vig I don't see any reason not to claim? Gives 2 confirmed clears at a minimum.

This was my thinking.

[Battle Mage]

No mafia kills?

did you piss her off in the PT so she eliminated herself?

[Battle Mage]

I'm happy to claim first if we massclaim, and then each claimer chooses the next one, unless anyone else has a better idea?

[Battle Mage]

erm, ok....well you go first then

[Battle Mage]

I am the town doctor and I protected Battle Mage.

Nash, I take it all back, thanks for saving my life, I don't think you're scum. <3

[Battle Mage]

this could also make me conftown too, which is super helpful.

Although question - would Nash-scum be willy enough to run a no-kill, doc-claim gambit? Very unlikely, but theoretically possible.

[Battle Mage]

The game is over right? I'm tonight's kill, meaning scum is caught tomorrow.

I think we should finish massclaim tbh - if we get a vig claim, you can basically 50-50 protecting them and me or something? we'll figure out the strategy once we know what's in play.

You should pick next person.

[Battle Mage]

The game is over right? I'm tonight's kill, meaning scum is caught tomorrow.

I think we should finish massclaim tbh - if we get a vig claim, you can basically 50-50 protecting them and me or something? we'll figure out the strategy once we know what's in play.

You should pick next person.

Obviously there won't be a cc to the vig. So if the vig claims, I protect them tonight.

2 things:

1. I wasn't implying there would be a cc to the Vig, I was saying you are better off tossing a coin between protecting a claimed Vig and me if we are both conftown, to increase the chance you don't die (because scum think killing the vig is a possibility). You choose how you play it, but my advice is to keep everyone guessing.
2. Remind me to come back to this once you have picked the next claimer.

Who do you want to claim next? Maxwell?

[Battle Mage]

my thoughts exactly! max, where ya hiding?

[Battle Mage]

I assume I'm going last by default as I'm conftown, which is annoying as I'm here now and impatient!!

[Battle Mage]

1. I wasn't implying there would be a cc to the Vig, I was saying you are better off tossing a coin between protecting a claimed Vig and me if we are both conftown, to increase the chance you don't die (because scum think killing the vig is a possibility). You choose how you play it, but my advice is to keep everyone guessing.
Who do you want to claim next? Maxwell?

But is it necessary? Worst case, we go to Elo with two conftowns if I die. Unless there's some way mafia can stop the vig kill.

we shouldnt speculate further until claims are done, but let's talk then.

[Battle Mage]

beeboy - ?
dsjstr - vanilla
maxwell - vanilla

Testarossa - 2 shot compulsive vigilante
Battle Mage - even-night bulletproof townie
Nash - doctor

[Battle Mage]

We win even if we kill me for clarification.
On review I wouldn't believe the battle mage claim but he is conf town

i havent even claimed yet! lazy shade

[Battle Mage]

i suppose i dont need to claim actually, i can just eat the NK tonight.

VOTE: dsjstr

[Battle Mage]

you town or scum dude?

[Battle Mage]

I think that the compulsive modifier on the vig makes it much better in terms of balance. I feel like this setup depends a lot on the n1 vig shot because of that, since he can’t abstain

Thanks Mod, I thought it was an enjoyable game - nice and quick and enough to keep me entertained! agree with comments it feels a bit town-favoured (in most cases it should play fine, but it only takes a couple good town PR actions to massively hurt scum). compulsive vig with so few players makes it super swingy. After everyone claimed, I couldn't quite believe it, because we'd basically busted it open on Day 2.

Really pleased to win the game after how Day 1 went - no regrets.

[Battle Mage]

in fairness to mafia team, i pretty much agree with their kill choices both nights too