Redneck Mafia GAME OVER PARTNER!

[Vecna]

I also like not getting NKed. Its pleasant being alive.

this also just needs heavy death at this point

[Alchemist21]

Do you get the modifier attached to the shot or just a plain old Cop shot?

I got the modifier too.

[Logicalicaltist]

Bingle is town.

wrong

VOTE: Vecna

[Vecna]

You can vote me all you want, his reasoning on every case he makes is exactly the same type of "sound-good" reasoning he uses as scum.

When you can easily follow Bingle's logic and you think this guy is sounding so credible he's very likely scum trying to get a mislynch pushed with good sounding reasoning.

When he's town he is much more often applying level 2 logic to see things differently.

He's trying to make you see CHKflip as town based on flimsy reasoning. Lavender did not TOWNSLIP due to the stuff in the role pm. Bingle stating that chkflip is town for stating that is BAD mechanical and social reasoning.

He was trying to push a scumcase on TempLich based on templich flipping his opinion and reads all over the place, being hypocritical in his stances, and attacking other people over stuff he does himself. A townbingle knows that that shit is likely to come from town much more often than scum. A scum Bingle knows that that shit is also very likely to get people mislynched because people applying level 1 logic think thats a good reason to lynch people.

But, if you think you really know him that well that you can tell the difference between a town bingle and a scum bingle (note: you probably cannot ever, unless you've played at least 5-10 games with him)................then you should probably sheep his read, because he is right about one thing: I wouldnt be gunning for him if I was scum.

TLDR: Youre applying level 1 logic and not giving Bingle any type of credit in his ability.

[Vecna]

In fact, do some homework yourself, and compare the replace-ins:

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=82769

The process in that game is a lot more course, interrogating, asking questions, parsing dialogue.

Here he just comes in, throws some comments, and then suddenly has a readslist.

When I question him on it, he suddenly prepares a giant wall on the guy that is hardpushing CHKflip.

[Vecna]

Pretty good source material for a scum pisskop in that game as well, since he's strongly reverting back to that style after a bit of a stronger start in this game.

[chkflip]

Lavender did not TOWNSLIP due to the stuff in the role pm. Bingle stating that chkflip is town for stating that is BAD mechanical and social reasoning.

Two things:

1. I truly believe they did and that was the reason I called people to *cough* unfortunatelylynchthetowncop *cough* are you saying I'm fabricating that after the fact?

2. Am I being pocketed or are you saying Bingle and I are aligned?

[chkflip]

Someone or someones is lying.

Or there's a busdriver and I gave Iec credit where credit wasn't due.

[chkflip]

Which means whomever Logic actually tracked that didn't go anywhere (I'm assuming since Logic didn't call Alch a liar) is either VT or a goon that didn't perform the kill.

[Vecna]

Lavender did not TOWNSLIP due to the stuff in the role pm. Bingle stating that chkflip is town for stating that is BAD mechanical and social reasoning.

Two things:

1. I truly believe they did and that was the reason I called people to *cough* unfortunatelylynchthetowncop *cough* are you saying I'm fabricating that after the fact?

2. Am I being pocketed or are you saying Bingle and I are aligned?

Im saying as scum you would also have that pm information, and couldve pretended all the same that that is why you thought it was a townslip.

Bingle saying he thinks youre locktown for how you handled that situation just does not ring like a town conclusion to me. This works independently of whether youre linked to Bingle or not

[chkflip]

Mhm, mhm. Still town.

Bingle is town.

wrong

VOTE: Vecna

Elaborate.

[Bingle]

With regard to the chk/logical fight, my best guess is that it's a TvT.

chk's townslip reaction comes across as very genuine. His setup spec, while something I disagree with strongly, is a completely reasonable take ("Why would there be a ninja cop AND a town tracker?!?!?!" is a very town thought), and the tunnel is incredibly genuine. He's playing an "Aha! Gotcha!" game, but he's doing so in a way that leads credence to the idea that he does actually believe he caught scum with their pants down, which ime is fairly hard to fake. Even pointing out the obvious softclaim from Logical makes complete sense in the case that chk thinks Logical is scum, and scum chk wouldn't want the additional kneejerk scumminess from outing a PR (even an obvious one) when he was already engaged in a loud 1v1. His thought processes are consistent and if you read him holistically there's a clear progression. He's not posting trying to look town, he's pushing things and actively trying to figure shit out. He's abrasive about it, sure, but this is EXACTLY what good townplay looks like.

Logical is a lesser read, but it boils down to a few things. His "Why would you out me as tracker" when he'd been obviously softing tracker is exactly the kind of town PR reaction I'd expect. His reaction to the townslip conversation doesn't seem out of a town's wheelhouse. (I'm assuming chkflip had seen something about formatting and didn't give a shit, so I've largely ignored that, although more power to him if he wants to continue pushing to dig up something there.) He also seems like he's being pretty blatantly pocketed by TLich, which is a good sign that he's not scum with the lich. I also think his reaction to my loaded question was more town than scum.

His townslip reaction came across as genuine?

It did somewhat to me, untill he just pointed out it was because of the header in the role pm, and not -those other things-. Which every scum would likely also have. Which chkflip, which does some modding work at times, would know quite well.

So what about that looks genuine, and not just "scum seeing town say things that he can point to being "obvtown" even though those things in particular are not, whatsoever?

And ill continue to be cute thinking I can read you. Especially if your reaction to it is doing exactly the thing youre accused of having ommited from your play (thought process).

I still feel the entire case on lich is more "finding words to describe what is wrong with his logic" rather than using logic to determining whether that comes from scum or town.

VOTE: Bingle

You think chk's townslip reaction was manufactured? Disregarding the validity of said slip, point to where in his responses you don't think he'd genuinely found a reason to hard town read Lav?

As far as "chk does modding and would know fakeclaim protocol," I think I'm actually more well versed on that than you. Chk is in fact a mod. His most recent completed modded game was MM2, in which the scumteam notably had no access to a fakeclaim pool OR a sample town PM and in which flavor gaming was actively encouraged. Since then, he has backup modded, reviewed or helped with a few, but they tend to by and large be open setups. He literally just finished backup modding my only recent scumgame, a Grand Idea (Which for the record TLich was the mod for, which is why I think his "Bingle is Bingle" meta supposition isn't strange from someone who does not actually know me very well). Before that, he was backup for the abandoned EISAL2 (I was a replacement, but in name only. The game ended before I could post), a game in which cult me didn't have a fake claim. Chk is an old school mod, and I can 100% see him not expecting a scum fakeclaim to exist.

Pooky (yeah Pooky is scummy enough for me to distrust the claim, DGB still town tho), PK, Vecna, and maybe Doctor Drew

Hot take: not a bad list. Firmly disagree that this is how scum Vecna approaches me, but this is probably your towniest post in the thread.

This also once again greatly puzzles me, for town-bingle would call out the inconsistency that I did in the above post.

If hypocrisy was the core of either argument, sure, I'd call it out. It's not. I agree with you that hypocrisy is a notoriously difficult tell to pin down the alignment of without extensive meta. There are players for whom it is a town or scum tell, but I don't know which category TLich falls into.

I think TLich is scum because he's faking his reasoning, he's playing a "I don't want to die" game, and he's . I think that post is potentially town indicative because of the specific names. Pooky is as close to a universal TR as possible, PK is hard lurking, Drew is lynchbaity and you're one of the noisiest players in the thread who didn't already suspect him. In one post, he risked being gone after for trying to lynch obvtown, lurkers, LHF, and alienate you, which is a pretty notscum thing to do.

You can vote me all you want, his reasoning on every case he makes is exactly the same type of "sound-good" reasoning he uses as scum.

When you can easily follow Bingle's logic and you think this guy is sounding so credible he's very likely scum trying to get a mislynch pushed with good sounding reasoning.

When he's town he is much more often applying level 2 logic to see things differently.

He's trying to make you see CHKflip as town based on flimsy reasoning. Lavender did not TOWNSLIP due to the stuff in the role pm. Bingle stating that chkflip is town for stating that is BAD mechanical and social reasoning.

He was trying to push a scumcase on TempLich based on templich flipping his opinion and reads all over the place, being hypocritical in his stances, and attacking other people over stuff he does himself. A townbingle knows that that shit is likely to come from town much more often than scum. A scum Bingle knows that that shit is also very likely to get people mislynched because people applying level 1 logic think thats a good reason to lynch people.

But, if you think you really know him that well that you can tell the difference between a town bingle and a scum bingle (note: you probably cannot ever, unless you've played at least 5-10 games with him)................then you should probably sheep his read, because he is right about one thing: I wouldnt be gunning for him if I was scum.

TLDR: Youre applying level 1 logic and not giving Bingle any type of credit in his ability.

This, for all it's flaws and misunderstandings about me and my cases, is inherently a townpost.

[Bingle]

Someone or someones is lying.

Or there's a busdriver and I gave Iec credit where credit wasn't due.

Busdriver doesn't satisfy the mixup, Alch's claimed role should still have seen, stopped, and absorbed the busdriver.

[Bingle]

In fact, do some homework yourself, and compare the replace-ins:

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=82769

The process in that game is a lot more course, interrogating, asking questions, parsing dialogue.

Here he just comes in, throws some comments, and then suddenly has a readslist.

When I question him on it, he suddenly prepares a giant wall on the guy that is hardpushing CHKflip.

I would like to point out that the circumstances of both replacements were very different. That game was mechanics heavy and nearing endgame, with multiple investigation results from my slot and a deadline of more than 24 hours. This game was not, and didn't have time for me to dig deeply and greedily into the motivations of players before the end of day one.

They are in fact very different, though.

[chkflip]

Not necessarily since a busdriver isn't, technically, actually targeting Alch. It's just switching people who do target him.

[chkflip]

Chk is an old school mod, and I can 100% see him not expecting a scum fakeclaim to exist.

Giving role PM information as part of a fakeclaim packet would be incredibly fucking strange. It isn't something I'll hard town now, since it's already happened, but I also took Lavs experience into factor when coming to my conclusion.

[Bingle]

I mean... theoretically yes there could be a non targeting busdriver, but that'd be a variant off of a role that is already rare as fuck and OP as hell, something I find unlikely. It's far more productive imo to just ignore the alchemist interactions for the time being and play like Alchemist's information is untrustworthy.

[Bingle]

Giving role PM information as part of a fakeclaim packet would be incredibly fucking strange. It isn't something I'll hard town now, since it's already happened, but I also took Lavs experience into factor when coming to my conclusion.

SOP for fakeclaims nowadays is a full town PR rolecard for each individual scum fakeclaim, complete with formatting and flavor, as well as a sample VT rolecard somewhere in the OP.

[chkflip]

Harumph. Sounds like a lot of work.

[Bingle]

I think TLich is scum because he's faking his reasoning, he's playing a "I don't want to die" game, and he's .

I broke a sentence while editing for readability, apparently. This should be "...and he's actively avoiding sharing his thought processes."

[TemporalLich]

if a busdriver targeted alch, alch is 3000% fakeclaiming because he was provably targeted

[TemporalLich]

and if you fakeclaim you're scum regardless of your actual alignment

[chkflip]

Is scum play just to ride the fucking clock out these days? Jesus Christ.

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: pisskop

I want pisskop to do something for the love of the Outside...

At least post a post, at the very least say "this is a post with no content"

also chkflip is starting to feel towny to me so it makes sense...

[chkflip]

hi ho i might read tonight-o

umm prodge?

idk whats going on dont ask me

gimme a day or three, ill read and answer.

Oh he's made plenty of those, bud.