Smuggler's Port [Game Over]

[Menalque]

Hi S_S

[Menalque]

Is this yet another game where you’re going to fool me as scum?

[Menalque]

You know I think I have a worse read rate on you than literally anyone else on site?

[Menalque]

I used to have a surefire tell on S_S where if he scumread me he was town, but that stopped working as of late when he townread me as scum

wait no I just read that back and I'm an idiot and I should have had him

Lmao, amazing

[Menalque]

No, that sounds about right, fun D1 huh!

[Menalque]

Well, idk if it was obvious but I think it should have been obvious to ico

[Menalque]

I think that’s a waste if notscience flips town probably

VOTE: notscience

[Menalque]

I think if we really did want to investigate there again after notscience flipping scum would be a (datisi, norwee) pool

[Menalque]

Although I guess if not science flips town a solo invest on one or the other would be good

[Menalque]

I think that’s a waste if notscience flips town probably

VOTE: notscience

uhh, what? If notscience flips town it guarantees we find the scum in the other two

Well yeah, exactly? Why are we using it on a solo invest when we could be adding one extra? It’s also partly because I still think datisi is town and I think moment is town

Hmm, actually yeah, you have a point in that moment is probably more town than dats

[Menalque]

Oh wait, right, I meant it notscience flips scum, my bad

In that case I think it’s a waste to invest dats solo as I think notscience!scum probably means datisi!town and moment!town

[Menalque]

I think notscience probably doesn't pitch as huge a fit yesterday knowing he's about to be caught as scum

Err

Why not?

[Menalque]

Okay, absolutely bonkers idea here, buuuut

Iconeum/NK15/notscience scumteam.

This is literally losing if you think about it for more than like 5 seconds

Unless this is a memepost in which case, ehh 3/10

[Menalque]

I may have an incorrect model of moment in my head but I thought their posting yesterday was overall v town

I’ll look again at their and notscience’s reactions to being in the pool though (and datisi’s I guess?)

[Menalque]

I don't see what was towny about Moment if NK is town.

?

Is this like GL’s logic or something else?

Or do you mean if NK is scum?

[Menalque]

I think NK15 looks a lot worse on a notscience scum flip than he does on a moment scumflip.

This is like, broadly the opposite of what I think

[Menalque]

I mean if NK is town. It's not exactly GL's logic just I don't see why scum-Moment would not defend town-NK like that.

Whereas scum!moment wouldn’t defend scum!NK because..?

[Menalque]

Pretty sure RR is townspewed by this tho

[Menalque]

Moment would be a better lynch, I have the same feeling as whoever it was (Menalque?) who was saying their memory of Moment yesterday was v town

Literally a page ago my dude

[Menalque]

you also don't understand how bad icon is with mechanics

This. Icon could be doing some big brain thing maybe but this is like by far the most likely thing imo

[Menalque]

Okay so like

Hmm

Icon
RR, username, GL
NK15, umlaut
Moment, datisi (I probably technically TR them a bit more but given the mechplay it’s making me a little more dubious and open to just being wrong)
Maxwell
S_S
Titus, ali
Hel
Norwee
Notscience

Is where I’m at p much

I don’t do much as actively scumresd the bottom three is much as I just feel like I have more reasons to TR the others
Is it too much to hope that all the scum are in the bottom 3? Almost certainly, but seeing as how we only need to hit 2 across 4 lynches I feel okay with it. If notscience flips town i need to reconsider the way the whole game is going because I’m totally wrong on one of datisi/moment and that means I’m probably wrong in a bunch of other ways based on believing my interactions with them have been in good faith

[Menalque]

Yeah?

[Menalque]

Spoiler:

VoteCount 1.8

Iconeum [1] - Datisi
NorwegianboyEE [2] - Hel, Moment
Datisi [1] - GuiltyLion
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [4] - username, Umlaut, Radical Rat, Titus
maxwell [1] - Menalque
Hel [1] - NorwegianboyEE
Umlaut [1] - maxwell

Not Voting [5]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, Alisae, notscience, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, maxwell

VoteCount 1.9

Iconeum [1] - Datisi
NorwegianboyEE [2] - Hel, Moment
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [4] - username, Radical Rat, Titus, Menalque
Umlaut [4] - maxwell, Alisae, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion
Titus [1] - Umlaut

Not Voting [4]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, notscience, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, maxwell

VoteCount 1.10

NorwegianboyEE [1] - Hel
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [3] - Radical Rat, Titus, Menalque
Umlaut [4] - maxwell, Alisae, GuiltyLion, Moment
Not Known 15 [5] - NorwegianboyEE, Datisi, username, notscience, Umlaut

Not Voting [3]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[3] - Hel, Moment, maxwell

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion

Cause of this more or less

If notscience is town I’ll think about him again

[Menalque]

If notscience is scum, which I’m putting as “likely” given that I’m townreading you + datisi and I don’t think Icon is suicidal enough to dictate the pool and then put the TD in, then it looks to me like when notscience was coming under pressure, a counterwagon went up on umlaut that was then diverted onto NK15 once the fakeclaim shenanigans happened and he was an easier target

[Menalque]

why is notty scum again?
because of username?
is that it?

It was partly that, partly a general lack of feeling like his posting was coming from town. But a lot of it rn is that I think datisi and moment both had much townier D1s and there is confirmed scum in those 3

[Menalque]

Ehh, idk, I think it’s often at least +town even if it shouldn’t mean locktown, and it didn’t really feel like it was competing scumwagons. Although, honestly, I almost feel like the smaller scumteam give the size of the game almost works against town because it’s harder for them to exercise control of the game/manipulate it overall, so correspondingly it’s harder to spot where that’s happening

[Menalque]

Are you townreading me yet, moment?

[Menalque]

May i just say that if you are scum then you’ve played really well imo bc that post sounds hella townie to me

[Menalque]

Unless you think all 3 are scum, we need to investigate a new pool today.

This seems like a bad idea, because, again, TD

[Menalque]

(Notscience, norwee, ?)

Although actually if those two are right then it’s game and hopefully it ends early enough that the TD hasn’t been caught

[Menalque]

There might be actually two scum here. Moment and Datisi. Others have already said that Datisi isnt doing their town play, and in addition to that reaction to be in that pool there`s also Moment`s whiteknighting(of myself), notably before the pool was announced. In contrast, notscience looks more like LHF to me. That`s why I`d like to have a lynch on Moment and an investigation on Datisi(or the other way around), but that`s obviously something that doesnt help us that much - in fact something that HURTS us - if I am wrong about the number of scum here.

This is such a terrible fuckin take dude, oh my god

I know datisi better than anyone else here and I’m telling u all she’s town and u should listen to me

I’m putting my freakin reputation on the line for this one

[Menalque]

Maybe it is just nk15 lol

[Menalque]

But then again he did fakeclaim PA because he ~*thought I’d seriously slipped as PA and spewed datisi as TD*~

Which I’d obviously never do right guys haha

And definitely wouldn’t soft anything to Icon based on that game where I fake CC’d him lol

To get him to claim PA to give cover to me having accidentally outed datisi as TD haha

But overall I guess if NK15 was willing to believe that OBVIOUS fakeclaim from me maybe him having Bad Takes(tm) is just him being town

Need to reread what moment said

@dats nah i didnt reread anything yet

If you have a PT can you just spew whatever you’re posting there here instead so everyone can see you’re town and stop saying silly thing about mislynching you

[Menalque]

(Notscience, norwee, ?)

Although actually if those two are right then it’s game and hopefully it ends early enough that the TD hasn’t been caught

How would it be game if it's those two? We're having enough problems wagoning Notty.

Have you... have you read the setup?

[Menalque]

There should be more votes on Datisi.

No there fucking shouldn’t be

[Menalque]

I think people are afraid to push Datisi purely because Mena vouches for them.

Yes because everyone is always oh so terrified of me that they won’t push anyone I’m townreading

:rolleyes:

There are not more votes on datisi, I would hope, because of the pool datisi is a dumb fucking place to vote given that notscience is also in there

[Menalque]

Specifically, is giving towncredit to Datisi where it's not due.

What the shit does this even mean? How is it giving towncred she doesn’t deserve when I explain specifically why I think she’s towny this game?

[Menalque]

I don’t think datisi has done things that should make someone unfamiliar with her TR her, but I think her recent meta has been towards the way she’s playing this game i.e. a bit checked out, and I’ve incorrectly scumread her for it the last couple of games we’ve played. I’m townreading her because I think a couple of the posts she’s made are very natural in the way she’s interacted with me in a way that I’m still not sold she does well as scum. Also, she’s rolled town like, a lot, and to memory her most recent scumgame she was actually much more active and enthusiastic than in her recent towngames.

What about this does she “not deserve” then norwee? I’m waiting

[Menalque]

Lmaokai

Sorry, I’m putting openwolfs on ignore hope you understand uwu

[Menalque]

norwee, why are you still pushing me for NAI reasons? like this morning you ask about it, find out it's NAI and been going on for multiple games for me, and then just ignore it ???

Hmm I wonder why that might be

Norwee looking for NAI reasons to make a shitwagon on you to divert from notscience?

Huh, I have no explanation for what that might be in this heavily bus disincentivised setup

No idea whatsoever why he might do that

[Menalque]

I think I hear a gust of wind rustling the leaves in the distance

[Menalque]

Shall I just start responding to all of norwee’s posts with this:

Spoiler:

?

Because that’s how I feel like responding to them

[Menalque]

I don’t think datisi has done things that should make someone unfamiliar with her TR her, but I think her recent meta has been towards the way she’s playing this game i.e. a bit checked out, and I’ve incorrectly scumread her for it the last couple of games we’ve played. I’m townreading her because I think a couple of the posts she’s made are very natural in the way she’s interacted with me in a way that I’m still not sold she does well as scum. Also, she’s rolled town like, a lot, and to memory her most recent scumgame she was actually much more active and enthusiastic than in her recent towngames.

What about this does she “not deserve” then norwee? I’m waiting

It's all just personal bias and no real logic reasoning behind it worthy of sheeping. Essentially your opinion on Datisi's slot is not worth considering if what i'm getting at.

norwee, why are you still pushing me for NAI reasons? like this morning you ask about it, find out it's NAI and been going on for multiple games for me, and then just ignore it ???

Moment is town and i think NS's reaction to pressure was towny. They're not even fighting really, why would scum do that? They're town giving up. As for you i'm getting lurk!scum vibes. Only showing up when it's convenient today, not even voting. Very passive, etc.

[Menalque]

Norwee out here literally scumclaiming

Also good pagetop, Menalque

Thanks, Other Menalque

[Menalque]

norwee, why are you still pushing me for NAI reasons? like this morning you ask about it, find out it's NAI and been going on for multiple games for me, and then just ignore it ???

Hmm I wonder why that might be

Norwee looking for NAI reasons to make a shitwagon on you to divert from notscience?

Huh, I have no explanation for what that might be in this heavily bus disincentivised setup

No idea whatsoever why he might do that

Whatever you say dude.
Why would i even bother protecting scum!NS to this extent when it's obvious they'd get lynched tommorow if NS flips scum, and then me immediately afterwards. You think i'm such a shit scum player i'd make it that clear-cut?

Spoiler:

You're being really childish right now Menalque.

Spoiler:

[Menalque]

Scum says “notscience isn’t really that scummy”?

[Menalque]

Scum says “mena’s opinions on datisi’s slot aren’t really worth listening to”?

[Menalque]

Tbf datisi, titus is right that you should vote

[Menalque]

So should S_S although I know that will fall upon dead ears

[Menalque]

There are a clean 5-6 people who would be willing to 1v1 me in this PL if they were sold on datisi!scum I’d say

None of them are doing it, so it’s not because they don’t wanna 1v1 me over her, it’s because they agree

(Or because I’m wrong and they’re scum and so is she but they appreciate the cover)

[Menalque]

Titus calling me juvenile is my kink

[Menalque]

Dragon doesn’t get to choose the guillotine today because we know the TD isn’t in the group of 3

So this is just a normal day

[Menalque]

Man datisi you’d better not be scum here bc I’m gonna look dumb as fuck if you are

[Menalque]

Especially with S_S making posts like that

[Menalque]

yes but we still have to agree on the investigation shipping stuff

I don’t care that much about this and am kind of okay with him leading on it

I don’t think we should invest more than 5 people probably though

I want a norwee invest tonight if notscience flips scum

[Menalque]

I don’t think we should invest more than 5 people probably though

All game, to be clear

[Menalque]

It's not bullying, they've got an rabid attack dog hounding me every step of the way. He's biting me in the legs right now.

Arf arf! Grrrrr

[Menalque]

I think that an invest on (norwee, nk15) would be good for today

@iconeum

If notty flips town then the next night (N3) we invest just one of (datisi, moment) to work out which one is scum

[Menalque]

Yeah thanks, you're real insightful SS.

It was a genuine question. What exactly do you think people are afraid of?

Woof! Woof woof! Grrrrrrowl!

[Menalque]

Oh shit I made too many posts, I’m doing what I did in JK9++ and giving myself a 24 hour timeout to let people get back into the game, my bad

[Menalque]

(Norwee, nk15) invest pls dragon

[Menalque]

If notty doesn’t flip scum then for N3 we invest exactly one of (moment, datisi)

[Menalque]

Why would I want to add one more? If you’re both town surely it’s beneficial to keep the pool as small as possible to ensure that the TD isn’t too narrowed down

[Menalque]

dragon boi can we get this show on the road? make you choice on the invests for tonight so we can hurry up and get with the guillotining on notscience

[Menalque]

I want you to pick based on what has been suggested in consultation, yes

I cbf to try to corral everyone here into actually voting using hurt tags to try and pick an investigation pool where if you didn’t abide it would potentially put the TD anyway

I don’t want you to control who we lynch (so long as we’re lynching from within a pool of confirmed scum)

[Menalque]

I think if norwee is in there are v good chances we hit tea again especially if notscience reds

In which case as small as possible is good because we’d have enough to win the game via lynches and the main risk would be from TD catching

[Menalque]

Yeah I think you’re overreacting here tbh ico

[Menalque]

I don’t want umlaut investigated, my 2 would be (norwee, nk15) just to hopefully kill the paranoia there

[Menalque]

I don’t want umlaut investigated, my 2 would be (norwee, nk15) just to hopefully kill the paranoia there

do you really think scum are gonna be fake claiming like NK did?

No, but a lot of people seem to think that so if they need an invest on NK15 to try and get over it I don’t hate the idea

I also don’t love it. Tbh I’d be fine with norwee as a solo invest

[Menalque]

I think that mixing together an investigation that you expect to result in a guilty (presumably Norwegianboy) with a "paranoia" investigation, so to speak, is a bad idea.

Thoughts?

Eh it’s a bit of a gamble and I see what you mean, but my logic is that if notscience flips scum then I/we probably have enough clout to keep the guillotine off NK15 in that scenario and to get it

on

to norwee

[Menalque]

I don’t want umlaut investigated, my 2 would be (norwee, nk15) just to hopefully kill the paranoia there

do you really think scum are gonna be fake claiming like NK did?

If you don’t think it’s necessary to put nk15 in for paranoia reasons, I wouldn’t be opposed to Hel going in

Or ali for that matter

[Menalque]

I’m going to be a sad mena if you’re scum, moment

[Menalque]

Just cause u want be to be sad

[Menalque]

VOTE: alisae

Sorry norwee

[Menalque]

(Ali, hel)? Worth checking in (datisi, moment) again too probably because a false negative would fuck us hard here

[Menalque]

notscience, who was

Mafia

Smuggler

, was

executed

in

Day 2

.

Also, in the words of Karl Marx

[Menalque]

(Ali, hel)? Worth checking in (datisi, moment) again too probably because a false negative would fuck us hard here

We actually can get to that without wasting an investigation on two likely town. Today we should use today for three new people. That's because today is the last day for an autowin if we catch in three.

Yes, but if we check outside again today we’re getting dangerous in the territory of narrowing down the TD

[Menalque]

Well that was useless once I remembered we're playing "Everyone vote who Iconeum says" but I had already started doing it by then so here it is.

Would be more helpful on the D1 movements prior to and PA claims tbh

[Menalque]

To any PA claims*

[Menalque]

(Ali, hel)? Worth checking in (datisi, moment) again too probably because a false negative would fuck us hard here

We actually can get to that without wasting an investigation on two likely town. Today we should use today for three new people. That's because today is the last day for an autowin if we catch in three.

Yes, but if we check outside again today we’re getting dangerous in the territory of narrowing down the TD

We can check three new people because a lot of you have spewed not!TD.

You sound like you’re implying that you think I’ve spewed not!TD

I don’t think I’ve said anything that would imply whether or not I’m the TD

[Menalque]

do you think there's scum in {datisi, moment}?

No, I think it’s highly unlikely, but I don’t want to keep investigating in the unknown pool unless we really need to because I’m worried about the potential for TD being outed and (you, moment, nk15) are all people who I think are town but who are also confirmed not TD

So basically while I highly doubt tea will turn up in that pool, I’d still like to check it just as insurance against being wrong and because I see no downside really

[Menalque]

Like, there’s 15 people left in the game

S_S, norwee, nk15, icon are cleared = 11

2 scum off that = 9

You, moment, nk15 off that = 6 people that scum are currently down to for picking the TD including myself

That means scum have a rand chance of 16.6667% to hit TD within that pool of us
One more invest increases their odds by 3.3334% and is maybe acceptable
Investigating 2 names increases their odds by nearly 10%, and investigating 3 would be nearly game throwing imo

So I’d rather do this:

We do the thing of choosing 2 names for icon to choose between for guillotining today. We double check the pool of people who are currently being treated as fairly cleared (but leave it up to icon to make the final call on the pool for obvious reasons). If that does come up clear as I suspect, we repeat the thing of choosing two people we think are scummy within the pool and then we let icon choose inside again. If we still haven’t hit scum, we consider a last ditch invest on the 1-2 scummiest people within the 7 unconfirmed names and hope like hell that we hit scum on it, and that we then choose the right person of the two.

[Menalque]

i think there's a mistake in your math - if there's scum in {datisi, moment, nk15}, then scum has lower chances of lolguessing correctly (though i haven't worked out exactly how lower that chance is, and i'm ehh?? on how likely it is)

an argument would be that, while we lose if scum snipes the daughter, we *also* lose if we don't execute another scum (yes i know we still have 3 executes yadda yadda lemme be paranoid)

Right, true, but if I’m right that that pool is all town then the rest of my math checks out and it means checking outside that pool raises the odds of hitting TD much faster

If we check inside and we do hit tea then great, we’ve got enough scum to end the game and scum have the slimmest possible chance of finding the TD

[Menalque]

What did you try to post?

I think this

Spoiler:

[Menalque]

I mean I don’t think a lot of people are spewed not TD, but the pool itself is currently at 6 if correct that (moment, datisi, nk15) are all town, and I see no scum motivation in nk15 arguing that that pool should be investigated while knowing that it gives a confirmed scum and that that’s enough to lose the game

Idk if you’re trying to say something different to that, but that’s what I think you’re saying best as I can tell

I don’t see why other people are better investigations than (datisi, moment, TD) when the pool from scum’s PoV is down to 6 people only

[Menalque]

Just as a point of order, is moment not a she? I was fairly strongly under the impression that moment was a she

[Menalque]

Moment/Datisi both being spewed not-TD and therefore a better investigation is a valid point. I will affirm that. I’m just not sure we’ll find scum there.

That’s like, not totally the point though

As GL said, we have 3 guillotines to hit scum. If we do hit tea in the invest of 3 tonight we have a guaranteed win provided scum can’t identify the TD.

If not, we get two guillotines on our top suspects today and tomorrow, plus another 3 clears to help analyse the game. We then choose (or, I guess icon chooses) whether we investigate the next top scumspect who we’d normally guillo on D5 gylo, or we take a chance and risk doing 2 (thereby seriously narrowing down the pool of where TD could be if wrong, but also bringing down the scumpool to a pretty small group). I think the most likely way we lose at this point *if we’ve played fairly well* is via TD being caught. If we’ve played really badly and it’s (GL, username) or something stupid then we were probably screwed regardless of how risky we are with the invests.

I strongly consider the better play being caution on the investigations and trying to hit scum off dayplay. If we’re despairing tomorrow we can talk about doing a double invest to try and get scum.

[Menalque]

I think 1.9 spews umlaut town tbh

Or at the very least substantially increases the odds he’s town, given that he’s the CW to a scum wagon that was minimum 3 maybe 4 townies

[Menalque]

Actually, it’s G-1 with umlaut’s vote

Are you saying you’d hurt-tag hammer Norway?

[Menalque]

Re: 2077

Touché, Norway

[Menalque]

I mean, I get why Moment/Datisi are LIKELY Town, but also I know that if I were scum, I would absolutely try to hide on a ship with my buddy, expecting the Town to stop after finding one scum there.

I do recognize that this couldn't really have been done intentionally in this instance since Iconeum decided the pool, but if Ico DID happen to find multiple scum there, they could definitely still try to coast off that.

Yeah but I also think they’d be aware that in a game like this there would be the potential for there being strong mechanical reasons to check there again post-scumflip and so I agree with whoever said that they’d expect them to have bussed harder to take advantage of being in that pool with someone they knew would flip red

[Menalque]

rr you should help advocate for a maxwell/umlaut invest
btw i don't mind having my vote on myself since ik people want to wagon me and it prevents me from self-hammering cause if ywall missed an invest just to speedlynch me then thats bad for me

No-one is even talking about hammering you

We’re going to see if you get fake-hammered and then we’re going to move onto the second wagon for the day so icon can choose between the two at EoD

[Menalque]

Why umlaut?

[Menalque]

Alisae is the lynch. We are needing your input on the investigations.

Err, incorrect

Alisae is the first guillo candidate. If we now have a majority there, we start voting for a second candidate so that Icon is able to choose between the two to avoid outing the TD by veto-ing a guillo on them

[Menalque]

leaning to reinspecting moment + datisi

I would support adding nk15 but I don’t think it’s entirely necessary

[Menalque]

Moment, I’d like you to go back through and find the posts that you thought were indicative of town!maxwell as of 1017?

[Menalque]

do you think there's scum in {maxwell, Alisae, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion}? or, if alisae were to flip town, do you think it's likely maxwell is scum?

I mean yeah that seems quite likely

Idk, I think there’s both scum in (username, Titus, alisae, hel, umlaut, GL, maxwell)

If we reinvest you and moment (and ideally NK15 although I’m not certain that’s needed) and get no tea then that’s confirmed

****

Now, working on the basis that there are two scum in there:

I think username is pretty much cleared from the thing with notscience on D1. I think umlaut being the counterwagon to notscience on D1 is pretty clearing for him too. I think titus is more or less cleared for helping but less so than either of the other two, so we’re down to 4 names.

3 of them were on umlaut, so if ali is the person who we flip today, yes, I think there’s pretty good odds that the final scum is in (maxwell, GL)

And may I just say, I will be so fucking vindicated for D1 if that is the case

[Menalque]

Obviously the implication there is “if ali does flip town” which I could see going either way albeit with a lean to it ending game

[Menalque]

Hel is sort of a wildcard and if they were anyone else (well, maybe not if they were Elsa) then I’d consider them town, but I don’t consider them out of their scumrange given who they are.

[Menalque]

Actually that may be a reason to put them as more town than I currently do and say I think the most likely pool for remaining scum is (ali, maxwell, GL) with a backup pool of (Hel, Titus)

I’d like to check you and moment for sure tonight to check my working and make sure I’m not confbiasing on you both being town given the scumflip in that pool of 3

[Menalque]

My proposed 3 for Ico is
{Datisi, notscience, Umlaut}

Some credit to GL for proposing this before Icon fixed the invest pool on D1 though I guess

[Menalque]

Redoing Datisi and moment is gamethrowing.

Outing the TD is gamethrowing

[Menalque]

Plus, we can do it in people who are outed not!TD.

You keep saying this, who do you think these people are

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Because I think exactly no-one in my proposed scum grouping, and incl myself, is outed as not-TD

The only people outed as not TD are the 3 hardclears, icon, moment, datisi

[Menalque]

Plus, we can do it in people who are outed not!TD.

You keep saying this, who do you think these people are

Umlaut, maxwell, and you. NK 15 too but that one is debatable. GuiltyLion probably too. Alisae has but they are the lynch.

I don’t think I’m spewed not-TD at all and I don’t think this is helpful. I also disagree that the others are spewed not-TD. I think there’s some stuff that’s arguable but I think some of it is hopefully intentional. I’ve been doing my level best to suggest at some points that I am TD and at others that I’m not; I assume other town are doing the same given that the TD being caught loses the game

[Menalque]

Why are you doing this?

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That was @titus obviously

Unless you’re intentionally lying about who you think is/isn’t outed how is this helpful to town?

[Menalque]

And in the case that you are lying — how is this helpful to town?

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NK will be inspected

i've fucking warned you guys about taking my day 1 picks into account
but if NK is insisting about being inspected himself he can fucking have it

Here too

I think you’re underestimating iconeum and its ability to wifom scum

[Menalque]

i'm here

reading stuff

you guys should also probably talk about who is the second possible lynch, right?

Yes, good point, but I haven’t yet established who my preference is

Coming into the day it was hel but now I wanna talk to moment about maxwell + I think titus doing this is quite possibly scum-motivated?

[Menalque]

if not ok, you guys figure out the next one

If you were to say not!okay then if ali is scum scum know you’re bluffing about TD

If you say okay then ali is obviously not-TD

[Menalque]

I guess my concern with titus!scum is that if titus!scum thinks it’s inevitable or highly likely that the final scum gets caught then winning is only possible via catching the TD and therefore there’s a lot of motivation to push a plan which gives as much info about the TD’s identity to scum as possible

[Menalque]

I’ll grant that if you’re town it means +odds on maxwell scum

Although given that I think you’re just completely wrong on what we should do here I don’t think it’s out of whack that town would also be completely baffled by what you’re pushing atm

And like let’s say we investigated (maxwell, GL, hel)

Do you not see how that is probably losing if no tea is found?

[Menalque]

The other reason why I have great doubts in you here is that you’ve been saying that I’ve slipped not-TD but again, to the extent that I have that’s been intentional and again, I assume (or hope at least) that every town has been trying to slip themselves not-TD and to slip themselves TD

So you “picking up” on those is meaningless

[Menalque]

I’ve slipped TD like 3 times or something, you just didn’t see it...

[Menalque]

I mean they were reasonably subtle, yes... because I’m not the sort of player who as TD would obviously slip it as wifom

I would slip it like I’d slip it as vt, which is to say, subtly

[Menalque]

Hey GL, what do you think about umlaut?

[Menalque]

What do you think of my (ali, maxwell, GL, hel) scumpool/the logic behind it?

[Menalque]

We don’t need a third scum, the logic is that ali!green implies scum in (GL, maxwell)

[Menalque]

Game ends with 2 scumflips

[Menalque]

So if umlaut is a town CW to scum!notsci then it makes sense to me that there’s scum on the umlaut wagon

If we flip the scum on that wagon we win so long as scum haven’t caught the TD

[Menalque]

Cool

Okay, so unless titus has a compelling reason for there being no scum on the umlaut wagon I think we can all get on board with icon choosing between (maxwell, ali) today, reinvestigating (datisi, moment, maybe nk15) then tomorrow we execute the other in (ali, maxwell) if it’s not GG and then N4 we invest GL if the game isn’t over by that point?

[Menalque]

Cool so

Can we get dats and moment on wheat

And get ali flipped ?

[Menalque]

@icon I actually wouldn’t hate having maxwell on but I get it if not

Mostly I feel like he’s the obvious guillo for tomorrow and I’d like to start re-evaluating early if that’s wrong

[Menalque]

I would like to hear from moment on maxwell before we end day tho

[Menalque]

that's wrong btw. the day's pool should be either 1 person or 3. 1 if we're investing outside and the person is likely to eat an execution the next day *anyway*, or 3 if we're going for rechecks/clears as that (greatly) increases the odds we actually hit guilTea

and

that we have enough checks/executions to guarantee a scum execution in time.

i see it as confirmation that your bracket is clear, + we (read: you guys) get the ability to scumhunt. And if we don't hit scum, we can still do a new invest tomorrow

except we don't need the confirmation if we get scum in the pool. tea in the pool of three is still a guaranteed scum execution by day 5, and is much more valuable than two clears that realistically tell us nothing.

This is correct

[Menalque]

I think a maxwell addition would actually be very helpful because it means scum is getting by pretty well a day early

[Menalque]

Can i vote Alisae yet?

We’re waiting for moment to come back/for the right people to be on the right things for the invest

Talking of

invest: wheat

[Menalque]

Adding hel would also be fine but less preferable than maxwell

[Menalque]

Why?

[Menalque]

Like maybe I’m being simpleminded here but my brain says “notscience = scumwagon, therefore umlaut = counterwagon to scum, therefore scum on counterwagon, therefore scum in (GL, ali, maxwell)”

If I’m wrong I’d much rather know sooner than later, and the fastest way to know is guillotining ali and checking maxwell

Hel is just weird mostly

[Menalque]

Mena
do u want a hint

Is the hint “umlaut is scum”

[Menalque]

*drums fingers and waits for moment*

[Menalque]

Or, y’know, we just guillo one or other of (maxwell, hel) if they don’t get onboard

[Menalque]

You need to not be shipping whatever icon wants datisi and moment on unless it decides it wants you on too

[Menalque]

Still think we should be just investigating Datisi + Moment. Adding someone and then getting tea would be a really annoying result. We should check them both on their own at the free price of no tomboy daughter information given away.

Still think we should be just investigating Datisi + Moment. Adding someone and then getting tea would be a really annoying result. We should check them both on their own at the free price of no tomboy daughter information given away.

Why would this be annoying?

• We learn one of A, B, or C is scum.
  
• We execute A, and investigate B again.
  
• If A was innocent, we execute B or C depending on how the last investigation went.
  
• We win (assuming TD wasn't among those three... which I do assume)

Yeah this, exactly this

[Menalque]

would this be a good time for me to decide on stuff?
or you guys wanna keep discussing?

I’m bored, I wanna see a head rolling on the floor

The invest pool should really be 3 people not 2 if we’re doing (datisi, moment) as part of it

[Menalque]

Maxwell proposing himself along with me and Datisi seems like an attempt to poison the well and potentially get one of us on the chopping block tomorrow instead of likely just him. A rather uncharitable interpretation, but the one that most immediately jumped to mind.

What happened to your maxwell TR on D1?

[Menalque]

Investigating me and Datisi is still a stupid decision, but including Maxwell would be moreso. I would not comply with it.

Also, why?

This makes like zero sense

If tea turns up, we’re flipping maxwell first anyway

If no tea then we’ve removed the next obvious suspect and we haven’t reduced the pool the TD is in

[Menalque]

why go for an invest of 3 today when after today's lynch and investigation, you only have 2 flips left after the d3 flip
seems like it would be better to just go invest 2 people today tomorrow invest 1 person tomorrow

Because if tea then mechwin

[Menalque]

Are we decidedly flipping Maxwell first anyways?

Yes, unless someone gives a compelling counter argument for why there’s not scum on the umlaut CW to notscience

[Menalque]

scum just needs to identify the TD correctly and they win.

Yes, I’m aware

[Menalque]

All reads grow "stale" with time and with more information. I'd say the same thing regarding Hel. I'll try to give you a better answer when I get the time.

Okay, but I’d still like to know what was making you TR him on D1 in the first place. Because I had him as more likely to be scum and changed it round because you said you thought he was likely town, and now I want to know what the reasons behind that defence of him were so I can decide if they’re still compelling

[Menalque]

You motherfucker, that pagetop was mine

[Menalque]

This is a bad pool that I don't understand. Iconeum, I suggest you reconsider.

I’m not sure this is fair to call “very strongly opposing”

[Menalque]

Like a singular post about it being a bad pool and very little actual kickback doesn’t meet my boundary test for “strong”

[Menalque]

Cool

So can we like

Do it now and end the day because again, bored and want to see a head roll

[Menalque]

(Maxwell, datisi, moment) it literally just said this lol

[Menalque]

I mean, I’m fine with guillotining hel if she doesn’t move off copper and doing ali tomorrow

[Menalque]

If Moment refuses to comply then I think the correct course of action is to execute them and add Alisae to the pool.

Yeah this is fine

[Menalque]

If moment won’t get onboard then we guillotine moment, chill for a second

[Menalque]

I mean god knows I also want to end this day which has been drawn out for far too long now for ????? reasons but like I don’t care how unhappy you are with iconeum rn or whatever other reason there is, you get onboard or you die. There is no option C

[Menalque]

Well I am not on board with this plan. If a plan has to be forced onto people it's not a good plan. We caught scum on Day 1 because everyone felt listened to. I feel ignored and so do others.

Okay, who feels ignored and why?

I’m not ignoring you I just really strongly disagree with you for what the plan should be and icon agrees with me in this case

I’m also going to sleep now but I’ll read in the morning if you wanna try to lay out again why you think this plan is bad/wrong and why yours is better

[Menalque]

Bored

So so bored

[Menalque]

Let's just investigate Moment/Datisis and call it a day.

It’s a waste not to have a third in there though

[Menalque]

Ali and datisi need to ship copper

[Menalque]

Sorry, just datisi, I was looking at the last VC

[Menalque]

Oh, cool, sorry I didn’t see

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VOTE: moment

[Menalque]

We need 4 more, let’s go

[Menalque]

See. Ico no one listens to you about who is obvtown. They go along when convenient. Let's not lynch Moment or Datisi or investigate them. Put your foot down.

I will listen to you tomorrow if moment flips town and there’s no tea in the invest pool. But today I think a pretty solid number of people think you’re wrong, I think you’re wrong independently of that, and you haven’t persuaded me to change my opinion

[Menalque]

Whose dick do I gotta suck to get a hammer over here

I think we’re two off

[Menalque]

inspect: copper

The shipping are in the right places

I think the invests probably are by now too, but I’ll check, 2 secs

[Menalque]

Yeah we’re good, although if you wanna do one of those sweet, sweet execution speeches then you’ll have to wait for one more vote, I think moment is only at G-1

[Menalque]

G-2* ffs

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Vote moment and we can get this show on the road?

[Menalque]

Yo S_S, RR, icon, can we get this show on the road?

[Menalque]

inspect copper

VOTE: alisae

[Menalque]

This would be a sweeter moment had we not had to guillotine her yesterday

[Menalque]

Pretty sure the last one is titus, ftr

Good odds at least

[Menalque]

Which maybe increases the odds of it being datisi, but eh, it’s auto anyway

[Menalque]

RR, just vote ali

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I like Earl Grey

[Menalque]

But the best tea ever is a specific type of Cherry Ceylon that I think is no longer sold

[Menalque]

VOTE: datisi

[Menalque]

The only thing worrying me at all about datisi is her not calling me scum yet but I’m going to tell myself that’s because we’re past that stage and not because she’s pocketing me

Well guess I was fuckin wrong

[Menalque]

Titus is your partner?

[Menalque]

No, I’ll just feel better about it if it’s titus as opposed to like, umlaut let’s say

[Menalque]

I mean, in fairness, I was right about notscience and I didn’t think it was likely that we had 2 scum in the N1 pool

But I wasn’t so tunnelled in my rightness that’s I didn’t want to doublecheck it

[Menalque]

VoteCount 1.9

Iconeum [1] - Datisi
NorwegianboyEE [2] - Hel, Moment
Menalque [1] - Maki Harukawa
notscience [4] - username, Radical Rat, Titus, Menalque
Umlaut [4] - maxwell, Alisae, NorwegianboyEE, GuiltyLion
Titus [1] - Umlaut

Not Voting [4]

- Something_Smart, Iconeum, notscience, Not Known 15

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-07-11 13:35:31)

I am shipping...

Linen

[10] - Alisae, Maki Harukawa, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart, Not Known 15, maxwell, Menalque, Iconeum, notscience, Umlaut

Copper

[4] - Titus, NorwegianboyEE, username, Radical Rat

Wheat

[3] - Datisi, Hel, Moment

Let's Inspect...

Linen

[1] - Radical Rat

Copper

[2] - Hel, Moment

Wheat

[3] - Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, maxwell

Looks like the umlaut CW was all town then

[Menalque]

G-2, i assume datisi will self

[Menalque]

*drums fingers*

[Menalque]

Self?

[Menalque]

There’s really no point drawing it out

[Menalque]

Datisi? Self-vote?

[Menalque]

It’s frankly the least u can do after embarrassing me like this

[Menalque]

Tea why

[Menalque]

Very well. It looks like the fate of the game is in my hands.

[Menalque]

You fuckers are alright


I'll play with any of you again any time

Purge redux?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=83795

[Menalque]

That’s fair, the next time then

[Menalque]

Yay!

What a great game, I really enjoyed this, so thank you everyone. Thank you for modding, FakeGod.

P.s. the art is excellent

[Menalque]

I guessed it was GL because of Icon having an early but never really questioned TR on him, but I honestly hadn’t thought about it that much.

[Menalque]

I would very happily play with anyone here again and would actively encourage sign ups to this game from the rest of this PL

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=83795

[Menalque]

Yeah +1 I’m prodging until I get lynched or Icon big brain solves the game where no one wants to post because their opinions don’t matter

This post pretty funny in retrospect, given Icon did exactly that.

I knew he had it in him, I was just incentivising him

[Menalque]

I might nom icon for moment of brilliance tbh

[Menalque]

Or maybe master strategist? Idk which category it falls under better

[Menalque]

Subject: Port Authority's Office

Is it really a fact that NK is actually and for everyone, meaning scum, spewed as definitely not the TD? Even with my reluctance to not investigate there?
As long as NK is town, I have a feeling this could be the winning play.

Ofcourse if everyone and their mothers truly believe NK is never TD here, the plan is as solid as wet cartonboard.

At this point I was thinking NK was a possible TD and it’s why I kept saying that I didn’t really think investigating there was necessary. I think you did a good job paining them as possible TD, but stating that outright would have made it incredibly obvious that I wasn’t TD myself!

[Menalque]

Subject: Port Authority's Office

Then who does Titus thinks is the TD?

Or is this a 9000+ IQ play from Town!Titus by including 1 or 2 players it believes are TD, to throw a curveball at scum?

'omg dudes Titus thinks these aren't TD, that must be true'

imagine that lol

This is funny, because I had titus as town from bad VCA and this is what I thought she had to be doing as I couldn’t understand her play otherwise

[Menalque]

I would very happily play with anyone here again and would actively encourage sign ups to this game from the rest of this PL

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=83795

Also I was very impressed with you of all the people I knew

Thanks

I liked your style, was a shame that you rolled scum :p