Redneck Mafia GAME OVER PARTNER!

[Vecna]

I really dont follow your logic on believing the UN/froppy claim.

If its a fakeclaim, the scum would have the full role PM in their PT, including name and flavour. The mod wouldve made it just as believable as any town PM.

So your reasoning for stating it sounds incredibly believable just rings weird.

Also, ive stated that the interactions happened within a wingspan of like 2 pages of daystart of D2. The fact youre arguing with me over this very important topic, without actually going to read just those two-three pages and inform yourself of whether it is indeed blatant signaling or not.......

I dno. It just smells to me like the alternative of me being wrong somewhere, there being one scum in those three, and you trying to steer us in the wrong direction and creating just enough mislynches that you need.

youre giving me a sour taste Bingle. And I really dont want there to be any right about now.

The username interaction was actually the most damning of the three id say. Since everyone was talking about cookies, but he explicitely used the poison reference, and tried to hide it in a natural sentence.

[Vecna]

For reference, UN repeatedly claimed vanilly hillbilly D1 and D2 and I remember (but cannot find) a post where he said looking up his character's name led to an address. The flavor claim checks out with that.

As such (and given Vecna's rather helpful insinuation that I am a flavor cop, which I will neither confirm nor deny), I fully believe that to actually be Froppy's flavor, which means either A) scum have access to the vanilla role PM formatting (Likely) or B) Froppy is town.

I'm taking it as slight but not strong evidence of being town that Froppy's last name is not Rosewood. This is not by any means a mechanical clear. If in fact I am a flavor cop, I would like to make it explicit that I did not target Froppy or username at any point. I would in fact have targeted in pooky/DGB/Alch with a strong preference towards doing so in that exact order.

Like, this is an awfull lot of words just to say that you believe he is being truthfull about the flavour he claims.

Im also surprised that you do not take those posts of "my flavour is a street" as a potential traditional scumploy to make their fakeclaim more believable later on.

[DrippingGoofball]

Almost50

(3): DoctorTitusDrew, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Iecerint

DrippingGoofball

(3): Alchemist21,

TemporalLich

, Logicalicaltist
Alchemist21 (2): userFroppy,

DrippingGoofball

PookyTheMagicalBear (1):

votatoflip

userFroppy (1): pissThun

Iecerint

(1): Elsa Jay

votatoflip

slot (1): Vecna
Not Voting (4):

Lavender

, gobbledyBingle, PineGalron,

Almost50

Almost50

(4): DoctorTitusDrew, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Iecerint

, pissThun
Alchemist21 (2): userFroppy,

DrippingGoofball

votatoflip

(1): Vecna

DrippingGoofball

(1): Alchemist21

Iecerint

(1): Elsa Jay
Vecna (1):

TemporalLich

TemporalLich

(1): Logicalicaltist
DoctorTitusDrew (1):

votatoflip

Not Voting (4):

Lavender

, gobbledyBingle, PineGalron,

Almost50

,


Alchemist21 (3):

DrippingGoofball

,

Iecerint

, DoctorTitusDrew
gobbledyBingle (3): PookyTheMagicalBear,

votatoflip

,

Almost50

Almost50

(1): pissThun

votatoflip

(1): Vecna

Iecerint

(1): Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay (1):

TemporalLich

pissThun (1): Logicalicaltist

Lavender

(1): userFroppy
Not Voting (4):

Lavender

, gobbledyBingle, PineGalron, Alchemist21

gobbledyBingle (5):

votatoflip

,

Almost50

, DoctorTitusDrew,

TemporalLich

, Elsa Jay
Alchemist21 (2):

DrippingGoofball

,

Iecerint

Lavender

(2): userFroppy, Logicalicaltist

Almost50

(1): pissThun

votatoflip

(1): Vecna
Logicalicaltist(1): Alchemist21

TemporalLich

(1): PookyTheMagicalBear
Not Voting (3):

Lavender

, gobbledyBingle, PineGalron

Iecerint

(7): Vecna,

votatoflip

, PookyTheMagicalBear, Logicalicaltist, gobbledyBingle,

Almost50

, PineGalron

Lavender

(5): userFroppy, Alchemist21,

TemporalLich

, pissThun,

Iecerint

gobbledyBingle (2): DoctorTitusDrew, Elsa Jay
Alchemist21 (1):

DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (1):

Lavender

Iecerint

(6): Vecna, PookyTheMagicalBear, Logicalicaltist,

Almost50

,

TemporalLich

,

votatoflip

Lavender

(6): Alchemist21, pissThun,

Iecerint

, PineGalron, Elsa Jay, DoctorTitusDrew
Alchemist21 (1):

DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (3):

Lavender

, userFroppy, gobbledyBingle

BLASTED!

Lavender

(9): Alchemist21, pissThun,

Iecerint

, PineGalron, Elsa Jay, DoctorTitusDrew,

DrippingGoofball

,

TemporalLich

, userFroppy

Iecerint

(5): Vecna, PookyTheMagicalBear, Logicalicaltist,

Almost50

,

votatoflip

votatoflip

(2): Logicalicaltist,

TemporalLich

Logicalicaltist (1):

votatoflip

Alchemist21 (1) PineGalron
DoctorTitusDrew (1): Alchemist21
Not Voting (9):

Almost50

, DoctorTitusDrew,

DrippingGoofball

, gobbledyBingle, userFroppy, PookyTheMagicalBear, Elsa Jay, Vecna, pissThun

TemporalLich

(3): gobbledyBingle, PookyTheMagicalBear,

votatoflip

Alchemist21 (3) Galron,

DrippingGoofball

, DoctorTitusDrew

votatoflip

(2): Logicalicaltist,

TemporalLich

DoctorTitusDrew (1): Alchemist21
PineGalron(1): Vecna
Not Voting (4):

Almost50

, userFroppy, Elsa Jay, pissThun


pissThun (5):

votatoflip

,

TemporalLich

,

Almost50

, gobbledyBingle, Alchemist21

TemporalLich

(2): PookyTheMagicalBear, pissThun
Alchemist21 (2)

DrippingGoofball

, DoctorTitusDrew
Bingle (1): Vecna
Elsa Jay (1): PineGalron
Not Voting (3): userFroppy, Elsa Jay, Logicalicaltist

pissThun (3):

Almost50

,

votatoflip

, Elsa Jay
DoctorTitusDrew (2): Logicalicaltist, Alchemist21
Alchemist21 (2)

DrippingGoofball

, (DoctorTitusDrew slot)
Elsa Jay (2): PineGalron, Vecna

TemporalLich

(1): PookyTheMagicalBear

votatoflip

(1): pissThun
Vecna (1):

TemporalLich

TemporalLich

(1): gobbledyBingle
Not Voting (1): userFroppy


pissThun (5):

Almost50

, Elsa Jay, Titus, PineGalron,

TemporalLich

TemporalLich

(4): PookyTheMagicalBear, gobbledyBingle,

DrippingGoofball

,

votatoflip

DoctorTitusDrew(2): Logicalicaltist, Alchemist21
Elsa Jay (1): Vecna

votatoflip

(1): pissThun
Not Voting (1): userFroppy


BLASTED!

TemporalLich

(8): PookyTheMagicalBear, gobbledyBingle,

DrippingGoofball

, pissThun, Alchemist21, userFroppy,

votatoflip

, PineGalron
Elsa Jay (2):

TemporalLich

, Logicalicaltist
Thun (1):

Almost50

Logicalicaltist (1): Titus
Bingle (1): Vecna
Not Voting (1): Elsa Jay

[DrippingGoofball]

Here's a question.

Who did TemporalLich bus?

[DrippingGoofball]

Considering only unflipped players,

TemporalLich had vanity wagons on Vecna and Elsa Jay, and voted for gobbledyBingle and pissThun.

[Titus]

VCs and colored. Thanks DGB!

[Logicalicaltist]

Considering only unflipped players,

TemporalLich had vanity wagons on Vecna and Elsa Jay, and voted for gobbledyBingle and pissThun.

Here's a question.

Who did TemporalLich bus?

Honestly that’s a good question.
I’m not entirely sure. I’d have to look through his ISO.

[Bingle]

The fact youre arguing with me over this very important topic, without actually going to read just those two-three pages and inform yourself of whether it is indeed blatant signaling or not.......

S’not the part I’m neglecting fact checking on. I’m neglecting fact checking on my recollection of the you/tl interactions.

I’m waiting on mod response to revise impressions on the slip, and think the first person to start the supposed signaling phrase would be the most likely to be caught by it.

As far as believing the flavor goes, I guess I was thinking that scum would have no reason to prepare to fakeclaim flavor early, but if they share a last name that’s kind of not true. They’d know flavor would be incriminating after a single scumflip, so that would probably have come up in the scum pt. Do you have a reason to suspect froppy that isn’t the slip?

[Vecna]

Compare the two readslists that TL did.

Notice how he updates his reason on everyone but his townreads. He's finding reasons to shuffle around all his non-townreads, -except- for pisskop and username. He gives no new reasons for reads development there. Hes trying to remain neutral, and keeps stating theyre both content rich. The exact same reasoning in both lists.

I wonder why

Spoiler:

here's a quick lead rist, don't send me to the aether if it's wrong because I skimmed everyone's ISO for this:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now.

Logicalicaltist

- With great pushing and town initiative this is the townie we need.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

chkflip

- He's starting to look more promising as time goes on...

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Iecerint

- A decently good ISO, 423 is probably a good post.

Lavender

- Not much content in the ISO but I feel a townish vibe.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P, I don't have a reason to doubt this.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich.

Pine

- Unreadable due to lack of game-related info, defaulting to hard null (assuming V/LAishness here)

gobbledygook

- Lurker with contentless ISO, 126 is approaching info but actually isn't info

Doctor Drew

- Memey, totally not concerned with appearances. However his content looks a little scummy.

Elsa Jay

- I don't like the ISO. Sorry, but I just don't. It doesn't ping me town.

Vecna

- I really don't like the ISO, the readlist is bad in light of future info and 696 feels abrasive to me

[Scum]

VOTE: Vecna

A lead rist for the crazy mess that is D2:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now. Still trying to push an Alchemist exile though.

Logicalicaltist

- Town leader, on a scummy trend D2 so take with a grain of salt.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level. Hasn't posted yet in D2.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

Galron

- Laid-back townie who contributes content to the game.

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Vecna

- Starting to look very towny now.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P. Apparently logical got roleblocked? Alch might be fakeclaiming, but this will resolve itself D3.

Doctor Drew

- Seeing an upward trend here.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich. Neutral trend here.

Bingle

- Feels like Bingle to me, yep. This isn't TRable though.

Elsa Jay

- Still as scummy as ever, might even be on a downward trend.

chkflip

- Votes with scummy intent, also D1 got stalled to heck and back despite his pushiness so I think that was planned as well.

[Scum]

[Vecna]

Ill also note that Thun and Froppyname also fits with any convential/proper VC theory. Spread out over all wagons most of the time. Early on any of the scum wagons on D2 to look good.

Thun had the issue with flavour of his role. Even after seeing more information come to light, he remains the only one without a unique flavour. Due to the signaling to the 3P, I also refuse to believe scum killed A50 since they knew what he was about.

Both pisskop and username were happily participating, until A50 signalled he was about to die (and wagons on Thun/TL were the main D2 wagons). Then they both stopped and replaced out.

Username played a very good game overall. I noted earlier that the main argument against him was that he was too damn clean. Town is never sounding that well, without anything to discount. Every post was focussed on sounding good, and in hindsight, a lot of it was also devoted to making TL sound good by focussing on interacting a ton with him. Then came that one scummy post I called him out over, and he blew up, and gave me a speech, where he addressed me like he knew for a fact I was town. Theres a certain way the great scum players often attack you, where it shines through that they know youre town, and they have to beat you with a great sounding argument. You can often tell theres no suspicion of it coming from a scum player thats attacking them for bullshit reasons. They knew youre reasons are pure, but they have to crush you all the same.

[Vecna]

Honestly just mostly going off of other people's reads for this one.

VOTE: TL

Obvious busvote is obvious. No need for reasoning if you know its going to flip scum, right?

[Vecna]

alch promised us cookies if we visited him.

lets hear what he has to say.

Sorry, dude. I'm out. Would you care for a cinnamon biscuit instead?

This is still clearly signalling things. He's clearly signalling that he sent that cookie. And to make sure its not lost to the recipient -he even adds the biscuit part of his role-.

A50 wanted to signal he's the one sending out the poisonous biscuits. And he signalled he was about to die.

[Vecna]

The main problem with the competing wagons is that the deadline poisons them

Going to no-execute is way worse than two players you aren't sure of. Lavender town slipped hard and it was too late to fix by then without making day one a complete waste

I wanna look back at who hopped on Lavender after I started that one rolling.

I expect two scum on that wagon. One is possible, more than two with competing town wagons isn't likely. All town is possible but real unlikely after the slip.

And this, a few posts later is the most damning signaling post.

Bingle, you really think this is a coincidence?

Do you really think

The main problem with the competing wagons is that the deadline

poisons

them

is a natural sentence anyone would use?

Pisskop could still just be a setup. Setup by A50 to look bad, since A50 apparently knew he was about to die. He could still just be a towny using the cookie phrase to genuinely want info from Alchemist.

Username is not in that position. He deliberately tried to hide his interaction with A50. He deliberately used the poison phrase instead of the cookie or biscuit. He hid it in a post to make it look natural, talking about competing wagons and whatnot. In a vacuum he could be scum with anyone else of the remaining players, and any number of events couldve transpired that resulted in this outcome.

[Alchemist21]

This is a prod dodge while I read back over some things.

[Galron]

My biggest concern here, actually, is that Froppy's flavor claim (shiny belt buckle) sounds exactly like the kind of flavor DEB would give a reflector.

Vecna, do you think this holds water?

Also, to all, why is no one voting Thun?

Bingle, I guess, or anyone I suppose, what's this about Froppy's name leading to an address? I'm a bit lost on that one. Like a street address or a URL or what? And how does that fit in with the other names that have been dropped?

[Alchemist21]

Looking at the role PMs of A50 and TL, I’m inclined to agree with Bingle that biscuits was more likely to be a signal between Traitor and scum.

Logical is backing Thun’s claim so Thun can only be scum if Logicalicaltist is also scum and they’re willing to tie themselves to each other like this which is extremely unlikely.

The poison comment from Username is odd. There is a phrase called “poisoning the well” which is common. It’s not exactly the same thing as what Username was saying but it could be in the same vein. To call it damning hinges on the scumteam knowing something incredibly specific about A50’s role. That knowledge could be possible if they rolecopped A50 or if they reflected the biscuit back at A50 and were informed what they reflected. Given the above point that Thun almost certainly killed chk, the simplest and most likely explanation of A50’s death is that the scumteam killed him and they would not have done that if they thought A50 was their Traitor so the signaling hypothesis falls apart here. For it to hold up the scumteam has to be exactly Thun, Logical, and Username, and I just don’t see scum tying themselves to each other for a vig claim after losing one. I doubt there are even 3 more scum remaining because 4 group scum + 1 traitor with the potential to have 3 kills a Night is too much power, even for a bastard game.

It might not be right now but I’m going to go through A50’s iso and see what their reads were like. I can’t remember how most people were reading A50 at the time. Was he widely Townread?

[Elsa Jay]

In Europe what we call biscuits are cookies. Almost is European and not American, so him calling them cookies are more likely.

[Alchemist21]

In Europe what we call biscuits are cookies. Almost is European and not American, so him calling them cookies are more likely.

He explicitly made a distinction between the two.

alch promised us cookies if we visited him.

lets hear what he has to say.

Sorry, dude. I'm out. Would you care for a cinnamon biscuit instead?

And frankly I take this as another reason why cookies wasn’t a code word for anyone.

[Alchemist21]

I’ll grant you that I thought the same thing you did before I looked back at that post.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Compare the two readslists that TL did.

Notice how he updates his reason on everyone but his townreads. He's finding reasons to shuffle around all his non-townreads, -except- for pisskop and username. He gives no new reasons for reads development there. Hes trying to remain neutral, and keeps stating theyre both content rich. The exact same reasoning in both lists.

I wonder why

Spoiler:

here's a quick lead rist, don't send me to the aether if it's wrong because I skimmed everyone's ISO for this:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now.

Logicalicaltist

- With great pushing and town initiative this is the townie we need.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

chkflip

- He's starting to look more promising as time goes on...

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Iecerint

- A decently good ISO, 423 is probably a good post.

Lavender

- Not much content in the ISO but I feel a townish vibe.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P, I don't have a reason to doubt this.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich.

Pine

- Unreadable due to lack of game-related info, defaulting to hard null (assuming V/LAishness here)

gobbledygook

- Lurker with contentless ISO, 126 is approaching info but actually isn't info

Doctor Drew

- Memey, totally not concerned with appearances. However his content looks a little scummy.

Elsa Jay

- I don't like the ISO. Sorry, but I just don't. It doesn't ping me town.

Vecna

- I really don't like the ISO, the readlist is bad in light of future info and 696 feels abrasive to me

[Scum]

VOTE: Vecna

A lead rist for the crazy mess that is D2:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now. Still trying to push an Alchemist exile though.

Logicalicaltist

- Town leader, on a scummy trend D2 so take with a grain of salt.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level. Hasn't posted yet in D2.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

Galron

- Laid-back townie who contributes content to the game.

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Vecna

- Starting to look very towny now.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P. Apparently logical got roleblocked? Alch might be fakeclaiming, but this will resolve itself D3.

Doctor Drew

- Seeing an upward trend here.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich. Neutral trend here.

Bingle

- Feels like Bingle to me, yep. This isn't TRable though.

Elsa Jay

- Still as scummy as ever, might even be on a downward trend.

chkflip

- Votes with scummy intent, also D1 got stalled to heck and back despite his pushiness so I think that was planned as well.

[Scum]

[DrippingGoofball]

WHY IS THE SCUM SO INSISTENT ON "RESOLVING THE 3P ON DAY 3"

RIDDLE ME THIS

[Bingle]

Do you really think The main problem with the competing wagons is that the deadline poisons them is a natural sentence anyone would use?

I mean... It's a sentence I would use (and in fact I've intentionally poisoned VCA when there were VCA players in the game before as scum). I don't know if that makes it a sentence someone else would use.

The read list thing is actually a big chunk of why I voted TL in the first place (it was very obviously fabricated) and with how clumsy the fabrication was I

can

actually believe that the weirdness was surface level scum connections. Normally something like that would be too WIFOM-y to trust, but I don't really think those readslists were carefully constructed to throw us off of trails if you get my drift.

[Bingle]

WHY IS THE SCUM SO INSISTENT ON "RESOLVING THE 3P ON DAY 3"

RIDDLE ME THIS

Because it was an easy way to present a (I want to lynch scum!) message for towncred, the 3p was making you useless, and Alch probably didn't matter to the scumteam?

[Bingle]

Also, to all, why is no one voting Thun?

I'm not ready to end discussion for the day, everyone I'm considering voting is consensussy and thus likely to go through quickly, and there's an active influx of content so I'm not worried about stalling out the game.

I have no issue giving Titus a couple of IRL days to let her problems calm down.

What do you think about my take on your play? Is there any of my reads you disagree with? Agree with strongly? Independent thought?


As far as the username crumbing his flavor thing, he said something about googling his name coming up with an address, which seemed like a throwaway line Froppy wouldn't have seen or known about, but really all that tells us is that Froppy is using a mod provided flavorclaim or is trueclaiming flavor, both of which are potentially possible from scum.

[Bingle]

Compare the two readslists that TL did.

Notice how he updates his reason on everyone but his townreads. He's finding reasons to shuffle around all his non-townreads, -except- for pisskop and username. He gives no new reasons for reads development there. Hes trying to remain neutral, and keeps stating theyre both content rich. The exact same reasoning in both lists.

I wonder why

Spoiler:

here's a quick lead rist, don't send me to the aether if it's wrong because I skimmed everyone's ISO for this:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now.

Logicalicaltist

- With great pushing and town initiative this is the townie we need.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

chkflip

- He's starting to look more promising as time goes on...

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Iecerint

- A decently good ISO, 423 is probably a good post.

Lavender

- Not much content in the ISO but I feel a townish vibe.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P, I don't have a reason to doubt this.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich.

Pine

- Unreadable due to lack of game-related info, defaulting to hard null (assuming V/LAishness here)

gobbledygook

- Lurker with contentless ISO, 126 is approaching info but actually isn't info

Doctor Drew

- Memey, totally not concerned with appearances. However his content looks a little scummy.

Elsa Jay

- I don't like the ISO. Sorry, but I just don't. It doesn't ping me town.

Vecna

- I really don't like the ISO, the readlist is bad in light of future info and 696 feels abrasive to me

[Scum]

VOTE: Vecna

A lead rist for the crazy mess that is D2:

TR

TL

NT

HN

NS

SL

SR

3P

[Town]

DrippingGoofball

- Has a claimed inno by Pooky, no reason to doubt said inno as of now. Still trying to push an Alchemist exile though.

Logicalicaltist

- Town leader, on a scummy trend D2 so take with a grain of salt.

PookyTheMagicalBear

- The GIFposting reduces content but I have a feeling the informed claim is true so I am putting this at townlean level. Hasn't posted yet in D2.

Almost50

- Still seems like his towny self, but I have a feeling A50 is more reserved here.

Galron

- Laid-back townie who contributes content to the game.

pisskop

- Memey but an ISO skim looked content-rich.

Vecna

- Starting to look very towny now.

Alchemist21

- Claimed townsiding 3P. Apparently logical got roleblocked? Alch might be fakeclaiming, but this will resolve itself D3.

Doctor Drew

- Seeing an upward trend here.

username

- I'm not sure what impression I get from the ISO. At least it's content-rich. Neutral trend here.

Bingle

- Feels like Bingle to me, yep. This isn't TRable though.

Elsa Jay

- Still as scummy as ever, might even be on a downward trend.

chkflip

- Votes with scummy intent, also D1 got stalled to heck and back despite his pushiness so I think that was planned as well.

[Scum]

You're not Thor.

Also, flavor claim por favor. I'm sure you can find a meme generator for a way to meme your surname.