Newbie 2020 [Game Over!]

[Billy Pilgrim]

So post 69, we have white (then sceptorus) and ofhrz voting 5ogether on the mcendu/Reaver slot). Still together at 105. Still together at 158. And here its just them. Then at 250, white leaves the Reaver slot to the clidd slot as the small wagon on ofhrz is gone. Ofhrz stays on mcendu/the reaver slot.
A small 2 person wagon of me and town looter vote on ofhrz at 421 and then white and ofhrz are together on Mena. 463 they stay there while the 2 votes are on ofhrz.
At 500 ofhrz switched over to me while scept/white stayed on clidd. 594 2 on ofhrz, and 3 people came onto me. White stayed separate on clidd. And after that they dontnvote together until late D2.

This seems to suggest a very distanced team that really only coordinated when the need for survival kicked on on D2.

From ofhrz's iso - announces a townread of scep at 203 with no explanation.

287 is the first time that ofhrz interacts with scep and its with his reads list asking him to explain his townread of looter and why he moved off the reaver wagon when there was a wagon on him and he had him scumread.

Side note I think 452 weighs heavily against a ofhrz/clidd team. At the moment, mena is being wagoned with ofhrz in the 3 slot and she's pushing the idea of the mena skitt interaction being svt. Like this was by no means a locked in wagon at that point and she could have repositioned it. In fact it was kinda her that kicked it off with 387.

Then after the Mena wagon deflated which ofhrz sorta helped by unvotin Clidd, she goes back to a post of mine from like 200 posts before that.

Post 700 jumps out as the type of post that experienced scum can make to subtly redirect a push. Ofhrz jumped in there when the request wasn't even directed at her.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm seeing Ofhz as a partner for White and thinking about voting him to test.

But I would like to see he posting first.

Go for it.

If Billy plays along, we could hammer.

I was going to wait for ofhz to post, but I think Billy is way more towny after reading his analysis of VCA.

VOTE: ofrhz

Here we go, *testing*

What was so convincing to you about the VCA?

[clidd]

You are direct and the message you give in your observations is not relative/flexible. There is a real conclusion to what you have observed instead of a heap of fillers (as White has been doing since he came into the game with large narrative posts without substance). The way you judged the movement and encounter of the two is something that I also have difficulty seeing coming from a scum perspective, because I had a similar thought (but you extended it in a more suggestive way and managed to consolidate it into an inference). We are thinking ''almost'' the same thing there.

Spoiler:

Besides that, you can see that I'm town (Ofhz and White can't)

[SJReaver]

I think I was easy to work with. I gave you a small push on Day 1 before shifting it back to luncheon. Then a second on Day 2 and I even apologized for jumping at shadows and thanked you for being polite with my questions.

I said you were smart and thoughtful, while you've been aggressively sniping at my intelligence and abilities.

Like I said to luncheon, if you think I'm town, telling me that you hope I don't make it to elo doesn't help anyone.

[clidd]

So post 69, we have white (then sceptorus) and ofhrz voting 5ogether on the mcendu/Reaver slot). Still together at 105. Still together at 158. And here its just them. Then at 250, white leaves the Reaver slot to the clidd slot as the small wagon on ofhrz is gone. Ofhrz stays on mcendu/the reaver slot.
A small 2 person wagon of me and town looter vote on ofhrz at 421 and then white and ofhrz are together on Mena. 463 they stay there while the 2 votes are on ofhrz.
At 500 ofhrz switched over to me while scept/white stayed on clidd. 594 2 on ofhrz, and 3 people came onto me. White stayed separate on clidd. And after that they dontnvote together until late D2.

This seems to suggest a very distanced team that really only coordinated when the need for survival kicked on on D2.

From ofhrz's iso - announces a townread of scep at 203 with no explanation.

287 is the first time that ofhrz interacts with scep and its with his reads list asking him to explain his townread of looter and why he moved off the reaver wagon when there was a wagon on him and he had him scumread.

Side note I think 452 weighs heavily against a ofhrz/clidd team. At the moment, mena is being wagoned with ofhrz in the 3 slot and she's pushing the idea of the mena skitt interaction being svt. Like this was by no means a locked in wagon at that point and she could have repositioned it. In fact it was kinda her that kicked it off with 387.

Then after the Mena wagon deflated which ofhrz sorta helped by unvotin Clidd, she goes back to a post of mine from like 200 posts before that.

Post 700 jumps out as the type of post that experienced scum can make to subtly redirect a push. Ofhrz jumped in there when the request wasn't even directed at her.

And I didn't see you typing that ^ as scum!Billy. You could have distanced yourself by now and waited for my eventual vote on Ofhz.

[SJReaver]

He must be writing out part two.

[Billy Pilgrim]

He must be writing out part two.

I need a break. I want to look at the vca from the perspective of white Clidd.

I think i eliminated the possibility of a clidd/ofhrz team but I want to make sure I'm not rushing to judgment there.

[SJReaver]

Clidd has a fabulous townie aura.

Also, he wanted ofhrz eliminated day 2 and almost got just that.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think I was easy to work with. I gave you a small push on Day 1 before shifting it back to luncheon. Then a second on Day 2 and I even apologized for jumping at shadows and thanked you for being polite with my questions.

I said you were smart and thoughtful, while you've been aggressively sniping at my intelligence and abilities.

Like I said to luncheon, if you think I'm town, telling me that you hope I don't make it to elo doesn't help anyone.

Its more about the lack of patience. I hope I never insulted your intelligence. But you seemed stubborn and impatient. And those are qualities that don't go well at GLO.

[SJReaver]

But sure, have fun. It's only afternoon here.

[SJReaver]

Its more about the lack of patience. I hope I never insulted your intelligence. But you seemed stubborn and impatient. And those are qualities that don't go well at GLO.

Well, I'm not making it to glo, so no worries.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Clidd has a fabulous townie aura.

Also, he wanted ofhrz eliminated day 2 and almost got just that.

We literally don't need to rush this. This is honestly the more fun part of the game (for town). When you have information and can start analyzing it. Until you have a number of flips you're just sort of guessing.

Pedit. We're literally in GLO right now.

[SJReaver]

We literally don't need to rush this.

Saying clidd has a townie aura and pointing out his relationship with orz isn't rushing things. It's stating an opinion.

This is honestly the more fun part of the game (for town).

Most fun part of the game is day one when you're getting to know everyone.

[SJReaver]

If D3 is GLO what is D4?

[clidd]

He must be writing out part two.

I need a break. I want to look at the vca from the perspective of white Clidd.

I think i eliminated the possibility of a clidd/ofhrz team but I want to make sure I'm not rushing to judgment there.

I will be available to clarify doubts.

[Billy Pilgrim]

If D3 is GLO what is D4?

*SE hat* GLO is not a day characterization, its a game state situation. It means guillotine(properly)or lose. There is also a concept of mis-guillotone and lose. Right now there are exactly 5 people (3 scum and 2 town) if town fails to guillotine someone town loses. If town guillotines inaccurately, town loses. Mis-guillotine and lose would happen if there were like 4 town 2 scum town could no kill safely but couldn't inaccurately guillotine someone. *SE hat off*

[clidd]

So..

[clidd]

The number of views on the topic has increased significantly, but no one has posted yet.

[ofrhz]

I'm here typing up my case

[clidd]

Actually, the number has not increased much, but thanks for responding.

[clidd]

Can you speed up a little ?

I will be starting two games in the next 24 hours.

[ofrhz]

Regarding clidd: The timing of their shift on lunch from scum --> town seems scummy to me. clidd stated intent to hammer, which forced lunch to claim. After I said I supported the lunch wagon/execution, he effectively removed his intent to hammer.

- This makes a lot of sense for scum who wanted to avoid being the one to hammer and maximize their towncred entering lylo. After I said I was willing to vote lunch, there was enough town support for a lunch misexecution to go through without his support, so he didn't want to be the on the final execution wagon.
- Scum!clidd placing "intent to hammer" on lunch forced a claim out of him. By then changing his push to me, clidd could've pushed another townie to a claim.

Granted, clidd's shift on lunch can also come from town, as town often change their reads as well. However, clidd's rationale for starting to townread lunch was because he thought certain posts by lunch rang like angry townie:

Spoiler:

Okay Reaver has to be scum and/or unbelievably fucking dumb

VOTE: reaver

shut up reaver, you scumreading me in bad faith is the reason it took so long to muster up the willpower care about town enough to case scum

yep, it's like " if reaver is this fucking stupid and annoying why would I bother helping the team given that he's on it"

must be nice for scum in this game having you on the other team

The arrogance and toxicity he is expressing are towny, although it isn't a healthy criteria to evaluate.

However, this doesn't seem real. There are lots of posts in lunch's ISO that had the same exact tone. I quoted some from earlier in day 2 here e.g. lunch calls Reaver braindead, implying clidd is a bad player for shading the VT claim --

Spoiler: Examples

Wow, you guys decided to sheep reaver (he's braindead)? How am I flailing? My reads really haven't been all over the place. Reaver has been deliberately getting under my skin, that's really where my vote comes from. Otherwise I still think billy/ofhrz is really the (only?) viable scum team left bar paranoia.

Billy/Clidd on this page misunderstanding/deliberately misrepping what I've been saying. Theres nothing to respond to.

Did clidd say vt is a scummy claim? Are they usually better than this?

Also at the end of day 2 when lunch was about to be executed, I didn't feel any sense of urgency coming from clidd to defend his newfound townread from being executed, which makes sense if clidd were scum and was okay with letting the execution go through. If your townread was able to die, wouldn't you try harder to save him?

The interactions between clidd/Menalque and white/Sceptorus slots also look partner-y. One thing that stood out is that clidd seemed to scumread Scept/white (see 590, 970) but

never voted him at all

in the last two days. There was a brief point (around 1109) where clidd took white out of his lynchpool for shaky reasons -- he seemed to take issue with white's conclusions and reads but when push came to shove, he wasn't willing to actually push there. This looks like a case where scum are distancing but aren't willing to hardbus each other in the first two days of the game.


From early game --

Spoiler:

2) what the fuck is this lmao
so ur saying u treating someone town for the time being lets u put them under greater scrutiny? but don't u think that putting their slot as a scumread should better do what you were trying to accomplish -- put them under greater scrutiny as well as put some pressure so they can be more genuine and help u form a more certain read?
I can't really understand this. it feels like you're trying to bs us with a big post into believing your bs read that you bsed in the first place. fos on you for this right now, im not getting of mcendu until he can explain his t

This is what felt weird in its approach

Like, just vote me, no? That doesn’t mean you can’t keep asking endu too

VOTE: scep

having more votes on someone brings out more genuinity and makes them easier to read,

This doesn’t really apply once people are a certain level of comfortable with playing scum though

What do you think my plan is then, scep?

Maybe this game is not as hard as I thought

Mena - town
Skitt - honorary town
Luncheon, scep, gorny - townleans I guess
Looter - nulltown
Mcendu, billy, ofrhz - scumpool for now

Mena's progression on Scep looks like early distancing too. He starts out with a scumread on Scept only to put him with his townleans later without explanation. There was some back and forth on pages 10 and 11, where Mena asked Scept some easy questions. I also want to point out that Scept seemed to scumread Mena but didn't seem to want to commit to it too hard in 246, which fits my theory that they're scum distancing.

I'll case why white is scum (independent of his interactions with clidd) next.

[ofrhz]

Can you speed up a little ?

I will be starting two games in the next 24 hours.

I mean this day just started and not all of us have that much free time. What's the rush?

[ofrhz]

Regarding white: Holistically looking at this slot's contributions over the last two days, I feel like they're likely scum.

- Sceptorus came out of the gate strong but flaked out, which is slightly scum indicative as I feel like scum are more likely to lose steam as it's more difficult to sustain engagement and fake scumhunting as scum
- Not having townreads 50 pages into the game 1336
- Generally hedge-y posts like 1305 -- like here, he was already voting for lunch to be executed but didn't seem that convinced that lunch was going to flip scum. 1341 is another post that I think is scum talking to someone they know is town.

It's hard to point to many concrete scummy things the slot has done, because the slot was empty for so long, but I think the lack of doing things in the first place is scummy as well. So in spite of the brevity of this post, this is actually my top scumread, and I am more confident here than I am in scum!clidd.

[ofrhz]

okay catching up with today's posts now