Open 790 | Purgatory | Game Over!

[WaltertheDunce10]

Gc seems to be posting my paranoid thoughts, but Idk if it is real or just paranoia.
Although I am not sure what to make of the long post.
I think I am good by an isis vote.

[Hayasaka]

It seems pretty different to me, that doesn't necessarily entail "holding back".
I think I have a pretty bad winrate as both alignments, although I intentionally don't track it, and even though I try pretty hard I think mafia is probably more enjoyable the more I suck at it, so I don't get too upset about my shortcomings.

This seems very healthy compared to my approach!!

[Dannflor]

If it makes you feel better you are in the middle of my list right now. I changed my mind after reviewing my read.

It makes me less paranoid about you being scum yes actually

[clidd]

I'll take a break, back later.

[Cthylla]

My replies are in green. This is getting a little out of control.

I'm skipping ahead and talking about this reads list.

Hurrah. I read the thread.

---

clidd: lean scum. I don't like his fixation on me.

After a page or two of plenty others talking about mechanics strategy, he focuses on me, draws us into a 1v1, later declares 1v1 likely to be tvt, and then calls it a day.

This is a lean and not a full scum read because, upon seeing the Word-town flip, his discussion about still supporting the Word elimination before the Word-town flip seems town.

Why is any of the highlighted demonic? He's listed out what happened but explained why it's demonic in any way.

Because he targeted a specific player to have a 1v1, which means he was looking for a fight.
The result of the 1v1 fight that clidd created was HEY EVERYONE WE'RE TOWN 1V1ing!
That looks like scum trying to gin up town cred.

Fair enough

Cthylla: scum. Passing over his initial reason to vote me, on the basis that my perspective of that reasoning might be biased, I think he's more likely scum because his suspicions seem to wait until thread approval. For example, he seemed followed Dannflor's, Walter's, and Norwegian's suspicions to Word; he followed clidd's suspicion for onto and then away from GC; and then hammered Word in a pretty scummy hammer post that rushed the day to a premature end.

This is false. I express my concern at Word early in 180, and before there's any votes on him. When asked, I explain my reasons in 232. Rather than looking at my reasons and talking about whether GC thinks they're fabricated or not, he's reducing his reasoning to a surface-level "he voted Word only once there were other votes on him."

Nothing false about it at all.

Dann

, not you, first articulated Word suspicions in Post 172. You jumped on 8 posts later in 180. Then you dropped it, even ignoring my Post 199 asking you to explain it. You only went back to the Word-suspicions well once others started voting Word and voicing suspicions of Word again.

I missed your question. I explained my reasons for why I scumread Word when there were 2 votes on him. You're still not talking about the reasons themself.

Dannflor: lean town. I think I saw one post early game that struck me as maybe scummish, but I read his Word justification posts are being pretty open. Overall Dann has been a nonentity relative to everyone else, and so only a lean read here.

Isis: lean scum. I think her push on Word was objectively bad. Town can be wrong but the 350s interaction between Isis/Word, ending with her vote in Post 380 as being "way too dissonant" just looks manufactured. I also think Word had a point that her walls make her look more productive than actually being productive. it's hard to follow threads of conversations when people respond to walls. Also, some of her content towards me looks like make-work. Take Post 341, where she thinks my explanation "doesn't make sense," she essentially retypes what happened in a way that shows she understands perfectly. This is only a lean because I think suspicions based on posting style get half credit.

He's saying it's hard for people to follow threads of conversation when responding in walls, this is only demonic if he thinks Isis is intentionally doing this with that intended effect, which seems ridiculous. He also has a lot to say about Isis here which feels a little TMI in some places. Could be a partner.

NorwegianboyEE: lean town. I view Norwegian as in the same basket as Dann. They're present, and have made substantive posts, but haven't rocked the boat for me to get strong AI feelings one way or the other. For both Dannflor and Norwegian, gun to my head I'd say town but I'm not comfortable enough to commit to beyond a lean read atm.

"haven't rocked the boat for me to get strong AI feelings one way or the other." should not equate to "lean town"

Interesting that you have nothing to say about Dann, but I put Dann and Norweign in the same boat of them being present and some town vibes, but nothing major.

Also haven't rocked the boat doesn't mean that I don't have lean feelings. lol @ you trying to police how I'm not allowed to have moderate town feelings at players.

As for Isis, I think walls upon walls is a good scum tactic but recognize that posting style isn't a sure-fire scum tell. Notably that's the *only* thing you focus on, handwaving my other problems with her actions as TMI. Mmmhm. Can't help but feel like trying to set the groundwork for pushing GC anew if Isis does in fact flip red.

lol you're drawing an awful amount of conclusions of who and who aren't my buddies from all this.

Hayasaka: town. This is a stupid little thing, but I think town are more likely to openly state their desire to be heavened rather than scum, and so Post 32 on my reread jumped out to me. Hayasaka raises a perfectly good strategy to think up and follow on page 3, which nets town points. Her Page 14 posts are all open and town to me. And similar to the town pings I get from clidd's twilight commentary about Word, I think her support for the Word lynch before the Word-town flip is more likely to come from town.

I openly stated my desire to heavened too, did he forget that? He's applying his reasoning selectively which is a very bad sign.

1. Where?
2. Just because I missed it doesn't mean I'm selectively reading shit. It means I missed it. This is supplying scum reasoning based on nothing more than you want it to be the reasoning.
3. I've already told Walter that the declaration in and of itself isn't a town-tell. It's all about context. thanks for ignoring that. Convenient.

25

is the one

Green Crayons: me

WaltertheDunce10: null. tbh I forget Walter is in this game until he posts.

--

Town

Hayasaka
Dannflor
Norwegian
Walter
Clidd
Isis
Cthylla

Scum

Burp.

[Dannflor]

need to see more from Dannflor before voting.

Was there anything in particular you wanted to see from my slot? Specific reads or anything

[Cthylla]

VOTE: clidd

I would heaven clidd or Dannflor today.

Cool, so either clidd of Dann is scum and I don't think it's possible to work out the WIFOM of it until a flip.

UNVOTE: Dann
VOTE: Hayasaka

This is so surface level again. He's making the level 0 read of "a demon would try and push their demon partner", and considering stuff like how I'm demonread and what it'll look for my teammates if I am a demon and get helled tomorrow etc. Green Crayons isn't like this as town.

"you're better this"

lol I'm 99% certain Norwegian-scum pulled that exact same shit on me in nightless

What about the actual reasoning in the post?

[Dannflor]

I must go play DnD but I will catch up more and play more in a few hours

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee, do you have a read on Cthulu

Mixed, i like the way they are detailing their mindset. But some of their reads i don't really understand, like saying it's scummy that i sniped his alt for example. Or his Isis read.
Also that hammer on Word seemed a bit iffy.
Tbh i've been considering if it's best to heaven GC, and if they're town we hell Hectic tommorow.

[Isis]

Isis, tell me your read on Norwee

Aside inclinations to policyhell him as a safety against misreading him twice, I think he seems like town. He's not playing in any way that appeals to a group of players that would try to get him townread. He's townreading me but then not doing anything I'm going to like, and the same more or less goes for clidd.
Scum!Norwee is heavily focused on coordinating with his scumteammates in the PT and the way he's played this dayphase makes it hard for him to have scummates, since he's pushed three or four wagons and they all seemed genuinely possible to go through. Norwee is pretty cooperative as scum, he's not a G7. So either he's town or the entire scumteam changed their minds as a group once or twice during this day phase. So that's the other thing I keep pondering. With a flip it could be easier to visualize teams where he isn't actually being that disruptive but if we just heaven greenclidd today it's too confusing for me to want to hell it.

It's possibly not good enough indicators to actually expect green text in a 5:3 but I haven't found anything scummy about him.

[Cthylla]

I feel like you are tunneling right now. I am not saying what he is doing is golden play but I feel like town play level 1 mafia all the time. I could liik up meta if I really needed to since I am basically just replying to your read saying "nahhhh" and that feels dismissive to me.

If he is town, I'm basically playing as a 4th demon, so I hope they appreciate all this. I've had a gutread on him being scum since the start. I can't always articulate it so sometimes I try and look for reasons for it.

[Cthylla]

Tbh i've been considering if it's best to heaven GC, and if they're town we hell Hectic tommorow.

I'm okay with this. I'll take the L if I'm wrong.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I just thought of something, what if Cthylla and GC is scum theatre.
After all, this game mode is all about anti-associations between scum.

[Green Crayons]

Cth, I already talked about your Word reasons back before I took a 24 hour break. They weren't impressive. So please stop misrepping what I do and don't do.

[Isis]

Assuming GC vs. Cth is guaranteed TvS for whatever reason you believe in I think it's more mechanically efficient to heaven someone unrelated to it then hell a member of it and heaven the other.

But that's an intuition and I'm not sure how to math out the T-chart for that

[Cthylla]

I just thought of something, what if Cthylla and GC is scum theatre.
After all, this game mode is all about anti-associations between scum.

Hmm, I haven't ruled it out yet. I did find it a little sus that Green Crayons didn't complain about my green font after I started using it after his initial complaints about Isis's.

I like this read from you though.

[Hayasaka]

I just thought of something, what if Cthylla and GC is scum theatre.
After all, this game mode is all about anti-associations between scum.

I actually had that theory about Cthylla and Isis earlier on when I was tin foiling at work today. But I don't think scum would be playing well if they actually commit to a bus since we only need 2 mislynches to win so I don't think going 1 for 1 is ever a good idea.

The only way "trading" pays off is if you don't let yourself get sent to heaven until you can support your last buddy.

[Green Crayons]

I don't read Post 25 asking for you to be heavened, it looks like a joke, and could be interpreted to be serious or not. Which makes it completely NAI because it doesn't lock you in, which is the opposite of why I saw Post 32 being AI.

[Dannflor]

Norwee, do you have a read on Cthulu

Mixed, i like the way they are detailing their mindset. But some of their reads i don't really understand, like saying it's scummy that i sniped his alt for example. Or his Isis read.
Also that hammer on Word seemed a bit iffy.
Tbh i've been considering if it's best to heaven GC, and if they're town we hell Hectic tommorow.

Do you think it's most likely they are T/S

[Cthylla]

Assuming GC vs. Cth is guaranteed TvS for whatever reason you believe in I think it's more mechanically efficient to heaven someone unrelated to it then hell a member of it and heaven the other.

But that's an intuition and I'm not sure how to math out the T-chart for that

It isn't though. Why would it be? I like him for scum a lot, but not that I'd bet the whole game over it right now.

[WaltertheDunce10]

That thought mirrors exactly what I am thinking Norwee.
Why the long post from Gc out of nowhere?
At this point a gc flip would be quite informative in my opinion.

[Hayasaka]

This is a weird nightless setup because a singular god scum isn't actually enough to win scum the game. This isn't something I am particularly used to. It also messes with how scum would interact with scum because I think intuitively you might think bussing in nightless isn't the worst idea, but with a deeper thought process it is? But how am I supposed to know if scum thought it through or even agreed with me.

[Green Crayons]

i stopped complaining about the text because it's seriously annoying as fuck, but i'm not going to whine about it, and as I mentioned before I change to my laptop to read this thread instead of my phone because it only hurts my eyes on my phone and not laptop

[Hayasaka]

Isis, Dannflor are you 2 town? We can play like the dance game again and be an unstoppable force. That was a fun game.

[Cthylla]

That thought mirrors exactly what I am thinking Norwee.
Why the long post from Gc out of nowhere?
At this point a gc flip would be quite informative in my opinion.

This is scummy and +equity with GC. Green Crayons is heavened and flips demon, and Walter can justify pushing for me the next day.