Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[tea leaves]

I was typing out a reply and then my phone died :O

[tea leaves]

Oh hey look the reply I was typing is still here.

So that's why GuiltyLion didn't like you for that! Because you were townreading clidd but left your vote on him for ages which is a bit weird even if it was one from rvs.
I think scum Guilty will be trying to look townie and pushing someone for what he thinks are good reasons is a way to do that but I don't think they are though. Town Guilty could just be trying to start something because nothing is happe

[tea leaves]

ning but the confidence and reasons were still icky.

[GuiltyLion]

will not be around to Properly talk/etc but @tea, what about guilty feels off to you? i remember your slot's predecessor saying the exact same thing and i'm wondering if you can verbalize it a bit better?

guys

why does Ydrasse ask this to someone about someone she claims to be scumreading/voting?

am I the only one seeing this?

[Ydrasse]

will not be around to Properly talk/etc but @tea, what about guilty feels off to you? i remember your slot's predecessor saying the exact same thing and i'm wondering if you can verbalize it a bit better?

guys

why does Ydrasse ask this to someone about someone she claims to be scumreading/voting?

am I the only one seeing this?

...to see how they qualify "off?"

seeing it repeated a second time, especially by someone whose predecessor used the same term, made me question what exactly they were thinking about you?

[Ydrasse]

like the way you worded that reminds me of those bad "psas" that people post online where they're like "why is no one talking about this!?"

[GuiltyLion]

can you cite the games you looked at? I've played with Ydrasse twice now (once where she was scum and once where she was town) and she feels completely different than both games.

Can you elaborate on the differences here? Between Town/Scum/Here|Ydrasse?

I think the main thing standing out to me is that in both of our Newbie games together, Ydrasse was more matter of fact, I want to say "formal" but it's not quite that, but just like, direct and to the point. Here's a sample post:

Ydrasse, I don’t like you.

You read as null to me. You read as null to everyone despite consistently posting. You don’t dominate the conversation but you do participate. Nothing you say or do specifically stands out. You’re good at keeping attention away from yourself by making non-contentious statements.

If this were a non-normal game, I’d think you were a Serial Killer or Survivor.

I want to know what is going on here.

this is the second time that you've referred to me as deflecting attention away from myself, the first being in 46. is there any post(s) in particular that have made you feel this way? because i would say that while i am perhaps non-contentious in the sense i am not aggressive about my pushes, i've been making the efforts to do so; mujie, while being closer to the start of the game being one and a vote on pearofclubs being another.

it might just be that this is my playstyle, and that i'm not a particularly Loud voice at times. i offer my input where i feel it works, push where i need to, blah blah. i'm not really worried about changing it up for the sake of being more ~memorable though.

midway is right though that it's a bit of a sweeping statement to say i'm null to everyone. i'm generally in the lower rungs of town reads i'd say which... is pretty average to how i'm considered in all the games i've played so far.

similarly, here's one from her scum game

i don't think that wagoning the slot is inherently a bad idea just because someone's gonna replace into it.

however, my poe still includes italiano as a potential solve; rereading his iso (b/c of their self-vote from yesterday), his only mention of pii before they started adding pii into their solve was 81 where they townread them. and then they come back to that slot in 188 with a scumread.

i think that what pinged me about this was that it came after italiano self-voting. while i think that frustration is within a vacuum nai, that he had pressure on him and then turned to a self-vote after feels very ate-y to me. the vibe i got was that it was a bit dramatic (that being "i've tried to no avail.") before it was being brushed off and he replaced his vote on his scumread and jumped back in. it feels as if the pii scumread of convenience because italiano doesn't interact with the content of the few posts themselves.

supporting the idea that italiano could theoretically do this as scum is 204, in which he says he's been in wolf games before this and has done bold moves which to me reads as a dissonance between something i pointed out in 79 and 91, where he asserts that he is a new player to this sort of stuff. i think that while there is not a 1:1 between all versions of mafia and italiano is new to this format, i feel in particular 91 feels a bit wifomy having 204 to read now.

that being said, i could see pii as scum despite this, though without more to judge i don't think i'm sold entirely on the idea. it's possible that italiano was frustrated, if they are scum with pii, that their partner has been inactive thus far and finds it easier to bus them at this point.

pii's posts were nondescript to me and i don't feel that i can say much more on the slot until someone replaces into it and becomes active.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

as either alignment, it's these kinds of post I expect from Ydrasse, a bunch of references to things going on, several paragraphs with lots of different thoughts and points, and kind of a straightforward approach to arguing. The difference I'm feeling here is that I haven't seen these types of posts from Ydrasse yet really, she's posting more casually and friendly.

It

might

be her just feeling more comfortable on the site and letting more of her personality out, maybe emulating some other players she's seen/read (I kinda feel like she's channeling more of a skitter vibe in this game), but do you have a sense of the difference I'm trying to point to? I know I just lazily grabbed one post from each game but if you do an ISO dive you can see it, there's just a lot more to-the-point content, here it feels like she's more chatty and peppering her posts with exclamation points and faces.

all that said, ISO skimming her here, 523 and 524 are the first few posts where I see more of the style I was seeing in these older games.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok MT. I like the opinion on Dunnstral and I agree with a lot of them.
I think I already did in my read list Gamma or did you want more?

I would like more, yes

[Gamma Emerald]

Question for both Gamma Emerald and Dunnstral: neither of you have voted at all yet. Why not? We're over halfway through D1.

I am between 2 options rn, waiting to decide until I get something to push me one way or the other

[Gamma Emerald]

will not be around to Properly talk/etc but @tea, what about guilty feels off to you? i remember your slot's predecessor saying the exact same thing and i'm wondering if you can verbalize it a bit better?

guys

why does Ydrasse ask this to someone about someone she claims to be scumreading/voting?

am I the only one seeing this?

That’s not a scum thing at all though
Just because you may feel a certain way doesn’t mean you can’t question others who do as well

[GuiltyLion]

also, what do you think of tea's points against you? (i'm about to respond to them but i wanna know your take.)

the main thing both MT and TL take issue with is how I pushed on clidd for saying he had a PoE of Dunn/Pine. I stand by pressing him on that, it was an uncharacteristically lazy look at the game state, we both know clidd is not a lazy player. I can imagine why MT/tea leaves suspect I was being unfair, but I'm always gonna dig in when I smell bs and calling the scumteam as two chronically low-post players a day or two into the game fires hard on the scumdar, it's conflict-avoidant and lazy. especially coupled with how he was locktowning Menalque along with it.

the rest of TL's points seem to be just disagreeing on reads on Gamma/clidd

[GuiltyLion]

will not be around to Properly talk/etc but @tea, what about guilty feels off to you? i remember your slot's predecessor saying the exact same thing and i'm wondering if you can verbalize it a bit better?

guys

why does Ydrasse ask this to someone about someone she claims to be scumreading/voting?

am I the only one seeing this?

That’s not a scum thing at all though
Just because you may feel a certain way doesn’t mean you can’t question others who do as well

I've caught scum with pretty similar behavior

if Ydrasse scumreads me, she should be welcoming more votes on me, not questioning them. It feels she's trying to stir up Tea Leaves vs GL more than actually interested in executing me today

[Farren]

as either alignment, it's these kinds of post I expect from Ydrasse, a bunch of references to things going on, several paragraphs with lots of different thoughts and points, and kind of a straightforward approach to arguing. The difference I'm feeling here is that I haven't seen these types of posts from Ydrasse yet really, she's posting more casually and friendly.

It might be her just feeling more comfortable on the site and letting more of her personality out, maybe emulating some other players she's seen/read (I kinda feel like she's channeling more of a skitter vibe in this game), but do you have a sense of the difference I'm trying to point to? I know I just lazily grabbed one post from each game but if you do an ISO dive you can see it, there's just a lot more to-the-point content, here it feels like she's more chatty and peppering her posts with exclamation points and faces

Yes, I can see a tonal difference between the posts you cited and here|Ydrasse.

Her explanation in 516 felt honest to me; it resonates with how I feel when I'm in a familiar playlist and/or an unusually good mood.

[Gamma Emerald]

will not be around to Properly talk/etc but @tea, what about guilty feels off to you? i remember your slot's predecessor saying the exact same thing and i'm wondering if you can verbalize it a bit better?

guys

why does Ydrasse ask this to someone about someone she claims to be scumreading/voting?

am I the only one seeing this?

That’s not a scum thing at all though
Just because you may feel a certain way doesn’t mean you can’t question others who do as well

I've caught scum with pretty similar behavior

if Ydrasse scumreads me, she should be welcoming more votes on me, not questioning them. It feels she's trying to stir up Tea Leaves vs GL more than actually interested in executing me today

Pretty sure it was a fluke, I’ve done that myself as Town once or a dozen times iirc

[Farren]

if Ydrasse scumreads me, she should be welcoming more votes on me, not questioning them. It feels she's trying to stir up Tea Leaves vs GL more than actually interested in executing me today

I can understand questioning scumreads, in the sense of testing the read. I'd understand wanting more votes too - even if she's not interested in executing you, more votes means more pressure which means more opportunities to test you. Regardless, I don't consider that sort of behavior inherently scummy.

Trying to stir up an argument is a lot closer to inherently scummy. At least, in the vein of "Let's get X and Y to fight." Are you saying that's happening here, or am I misinterpreting you?

[GuiltyLion]

it's odd that we're at 22 pages now and we still haven't really formed a substantial wagon. Some of that might be two replacements in the middle of the day, but we should be running somebody up at this point, the game is still in a low-info state I feel. especially with the stump mechanic

if nobody's biting at Ydrasse I could go for Dunn. I don't think I want an execution in tea leaves/MT/Isis

@p-edit: Farren, look at 474 and 523. she's asking both of us to address each other

[GuiltyLion]

like "tea, give your reasons on why Guilty may be scum"

"Guilty, what do you think of tea's reasons"

If this is somehow influencing Ydrasse's reads on either of us, I haven't seen it yet

[GuiltyLion]

Pretty sure it was a fluke, I’ve done that myself as Town once or a dozen times iirc

well that means you play scummy as town

[Farren]

Looking at the Newbie game you linked. Birkhoff (the scum in question in the Newbie game) did a total 180 from literally one post to the next, going from a solid, emphasized, repeated fangs-in-your-throat approach to "Why can't this be TvT?" I would not describe Ydrasse's behavior as "pretty similar" - there's too much difference in magnitude.

[GuiltyLion]

Farren - what is your read on Ydrasse, specifically? You're pushing back on my reasons for scumreading her, is that because you townread her?

here, you indicated you were thinking about voting her:

UNVOTE: Morning Tweet
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I was going to switch to Ydrasse next, but I saw something that I thought had ... a connection, I guess? ... to a part of the gamestate, and I want to see if it develops on its own without me poking at it first.

Gamma, I saw one brief moment where you put yourself out there - and then you withdrew. Got anything else like that?

has the connection you referred to played out, can you explain what that was?

[Farren]

On the other hand, seeing Ydrasse's behavior as potentially inciting something between you and tea leaves is a reasonable interpretation given those posts you linked.

P-Edit: The connection was her post in 285. Thinking of open-mindedness as being a Townie trait. I've forgotten who I wanted to check that against, though ... memory says it was either you or Isis, but I'd have to go looking through ISOs to verify. Will do that now.

[Ydrasse]

like "tea, give your reasons on why Guilty may be scum"

"Guilty, what do you think of tea's reasons"

If this is somehow influencing Ydrasse's reads on either of us, I haven't seen it yet

because i'm not announcing every change in my reads.

but i do find it helpful to see what you guys mutually think of one another. :> i'm not framing you as against tea leaves so much as just trying to see what thoughts you have on each other's slots. i'm not acting like, with complete sureness in my scumreads right now so much as having a few townreads i'm working with and going from there.

[Farren]

Bleh. Either it wasn't one of you two, or I'm fundamentally misremembering it. What I thought I remembered was someone saying something about open-mindedness, or something similar, being scummy in general.

[Farren]

if nobody's biting at Ydrasse I could go for Dunn. I don't think I want an execution in tea leaves/MT/Isis

Why Dunnstral over Gamma or Pine?

[GuiltyLion]

if nobody's biting at Ydrasse I could go for Dunn. I don't think I want an execution in tea leaves/MT/Isis

Why Dunnstral over Gamma or Pine?

I think Gamma's town

Pine hasn't played yet, I don't feel like that's a useful wagon or more likely to hit scum than random.

MT is voting Dunn and TL said they're scumreading Dunn as well. I don't really have a great reason to think he's scum but I don't have a great reason to think he's town either