Mini Theme 2158: Cards of Destiny Mafia Game Over

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Doctor Pepper

Don't venge me

Are you scum?

~M

[Ampharos]

oh right tris wanted me to articulate why i tr'd fl for that one page

lemme refresh my memory

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I personally think the Not Mafia kill is kinda lazy, and we could have just faded him to begin with if that were the case.

Shooting in Ampharos/KD gives more info and just as likely to hit scum, really

I don’t think KD is scum though.

~M

[Ampharos]

ah yeah that's right

there was an undercurrent of low-level annoyance beneath his posting; think he was lowkey frustrated that his contributions thus far had been misunderstood/downplayed, in a "why do you not get what i'm talking about" kind of way

[Ampharos]

just remembered that i was ALSO asked why i had VMP so high in my readslist

the short answer is that they give way too much of a shit about me answering their questions for them to be a wolf just asking questions for the sake of it

and it would be somewhat different if they were exclusively deathtunneling me but their focus has been broad enough that i think they're legitimately trying to solve my alignment

like at this point they're hayasaka-tier obvious town fmpov

[Ampharos]

HURT: Not_Mafia

this is a neat tag

[tris]

BEF even commented about how they changed their mind when he said their 1053 or whatever post it was ruined it

1053 just seems like a joke to me?????

The timing was way off for me to take it as just a joke.

Yeah, it was an odd flex.

~M

It's my kind of flex. I will sometimes say things like that just because I randomly feel like it.

[tris]

tris talk me through your progression on me

I feel like I've been more transparent on my progression on you then you have. You still haven't told us why you've shifted on me. But, I'll explain anyway.

At the start of the game, you seemed fine. I liked many of your observations, but I didn't think that any of it wasn't something mafia couldn't be just as likely observe. So, I was reserved in my read. Then, this post kinda pinged me as town, so that's when you became a light townread. Do you think you could articulate what you were thinking there? I know you were a bit busy following that. But, when you did post during the start of day 2, it just felt uninspired. And, I was losing the bit of towniness I had picked up from that one post. And, that's when I was starting to think you might be scum. It was a combination of POE and you not following up with anything more I thought was towny. Then, when you came back, I had mixed feelings. There is something in those posts that felt like a natural movement, but the detatchedness you described really matched up with the way I sometimes can get when I'm mafia. It happens as town too, but in that case I recover easier than as mafia. Of course, you are not me, but that's what I was thinking of. It has especially bothered me how you can't seem to explain why your read on me has changed. It looks like a scum who needs to scumread someone, but can't figure out a reason. That's what a lot of it comes off as. Someone who is having a hard time making reads because they already know what's true.

Yeah, I'm being a cagey asshole, but it's necessary for what I'm trying to do.

Quite frankly, the reason I moved you down was because I found your scumread of me to be underexplained and rather abrupt - you went from lightly townreading me on D1 to scumreading me on D2 for reasons that I couldn't really find other than "she isn't here enough". Given that quite a bit of the rest of the thread, most notably the very loud and very influential Flavor Leaf, was scumreading me as well, this set off red flags; to give me a thin townread only to flip it around when I suddenly look pushable is... not a good look.

The reason I wasn't forthright about this when I initially mentioned moving you down was because I knew that me posting 50 times in a row was gonna force people to update their read on me one way or another, and I wanted to see where the threadstate would settle, and where you would land in it. Unfortunately, less has changed in terms of threadstate than I'd hoped, since FL is still pushing me, but even given that I don't necessarily hate your response here? I think the way you're equating my detatchedness to how you play wolf is a read that comes from a villager a fair bit more often than it comes from a wolf - I think wolves

generally

rely more on universal tells, because a lot of the time they're too self-conscious to say "this is how I wolf" while actively wolfing.

So I guess I'm back to NM=>KD=>cry because I'm bad at the game? I should really figure out if TRing FL is actually a good idea or not.

why can't you just be scummy. this is too hard.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Stop trying to make things that aren't things be things

Flavor Fever’s real, been a thing for years.

I can make fetch happen

Believe it

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Spoiler:

The fact that I have a fairly weak resistance appearing should be enough to see that NM and I aren’t scum together. There’s a very real possibility that NM gets vengekilled, and if that happens and he did flip scum, scum me would be screwed. I would arguably say a scumNM flip screws me, which kinda sucks, but at the end of the day, if he’s scum, that’s 2 scum dead, I have faith town could find the last one even if I’m misfaded.

Essentially, as scum with NM, I’d have to hard defend him here.

I also am a confirmed double voter, DND wagon doesn’t go through if I were scum this game. It just doesn’t.

Hmm, I'll concede the first. I've pretty much been ignoring all the "FL would bus in this situation" stuff because you're purposefully erratic in whether or not you bus, but that's more of a developed argument,

Second point isn't really worth anything though

For what it’s worth, I don’t think JJH/Not Mafia are a team.

Ampharos/Not Mafia - hmm, idk if this one makes that much sense either based on the day phase here today.
Ampharos/JJH - high equity, but maybe too high? It still makes a lot of sense right now.
Ampharos/KD - this is a thing would require them to have chosen to scum theatre, it’s possible. KD answers really well to things.
JJH/Tris - after thinking about it, this has less equity, but i think individually they can be scum. JJH is fighting to get NM killed hard, so if this was the team, idk why they wouldn’t just coast more.

Tris/Ampharos - I kinda like this. They have complex reads on each other, but it looks a little forced now that I’m thinking about it. Like they’ve been positioning each other very specifically.

JJH/KD - JJH pushing NM like this would get heat on myself and Ampharos for a later day, and KD gets to hold on to the Ampharos vs KD for a bit to avoid deep suspicion. This is a high possibility.
Tris/KD - I’d have to think about this more, but i don’t think there’s anything that says this can’t be it, however, i don’t really have any sort of case for this.
KD/NM - KD’s timing of posts and the way the DnD wagon happened without defense are the biggest ones for this. KD also seems to want Ampharos dead here, so in this situation, KD would want to kill Ampharos here just to survive. I don’t think this scum team survives this game ever.

I guess utility Gamma Emerald can technically fill the role of any of these, but I’ll look into that later. There’s been enough things in the game by Gamma for me to read them as town, but i have a weakness to getting pocketed by players I’ve played closely with a lot.

That’s where I’m at.

Wrt the bolded, you think the hood could possibly be fake then? Because I just don’t see an SvS hood otherwise.

~M

[tris]

ah yeah that's right

there was an undercurrent of low-level annoyance beneath his posting; think he was lowkey frustrated that his contributions thus far had been misunderstood/downplayed, in a "why do you not get what i'm talking about" kind of way

I don't think that was what I thought you were thinking, but still. That post does look like one coming from someone who had an actual thought.

[tris]

where did the blush come from?

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

If I call you town here, I know I'm wrong on at least 1 townread. NM being town would be an additional two things wrong, because one of my TRs would be wrong as well as that I actually think NM is scum here

I don't think I'm wrong on 3 things here

Well, think about it. If you’re wrong on 3 things here, that’s definitely because scum would have a focus on you to mess around so you don’t catch them. If I were scum here, I’d have been playing in a way to specifically watch out for you. Do you disagree with this? And do you think I have done that?

Who do you know best in this game?

Nah, if I'm wrong it's because I haven't been engaged enough with the game

I think my half assed attitude from the last game I played carried over somewhat, and DnD flipping scum didn't exactly make me think this wasn't working


In this game, I think you're probably the person I've played with most, excluding Gamma who I've never interacted with all that much despite being in a fair few games. Let's also steer clear of unmasking Kaname Date.

Scum is unlikely to be catering anything particularly to me, especially considering recent changes in my playstyle and the number of players unfamiliar with me. Also of note is that I didn't get NKed. I think following this conversation you'll have a place in my townreads, but that means I need to revisit some of the other ones.

I reckon Pooky kill hard clears Hayasaka, not that that's big news

I think jjh is town.

~M

[tris]

i feel lost now. Not_Mafia's got to be mafia then, otherwise i've completely gone astray. i need to do some kind of reevaluation of my reads. something doesn't add up

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i guess i want HURT: NM. Only other i would consider right now is Amy, but she needs more talking with.

on that note, i still want to hear from jjh about his townread of Amy, especially in relation to before her recent posts. cause i want to know why he was townreading her at the time.

Yeah, it’s definitely between those two for me. I like jjh mindmelding with me on KD. Why does scum!KD bother to give a nuanced read on me, especially when it wasn’t even asked for?

~M

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, I really can’t shake the feeling that Ampharos is just being good scum right now. The odd flexes felt like scum taunts to me, like I’m enjoying playing with Ampharos, let that be said, regardless of my read on you.

I almost wanna say screw it, just kill Not Mafia. At least Ampharos posts. Less info, but I’m in a good mood right now. I’m ready to move on to the next day really.

[Ampharos]

i have literally been given that exact read before as town

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

re: whatever question VMP asked me about my detatchment:

it's p much entirely due to the limited time i've had to engage with this game. it's hard to truly feel plugged in when i'm checking in like once/twice a day

Pepper doesn’t feel detached though and that was pre-claim.

Basically prior to yesterday, it felt like you we’re using business to avoid meaningfully engaging with the game. As an experienced Mafia player, you should obviously know that business is scum’s favourite word and let’s them get away with a multitude of things. True people do have active lives and can have perfectly valid reasons for not being particularly engaged with a game but it’s kind of annoying that you continue to harp on this.


~M

[Ampharos]

i continue to harp on it because I'm legitimately annoyed by it

(and also because i keep getting asked about it)

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i continue to harp on it because I'm legitimately annoyed by it

(and also because i keep getting asked about it)

Fine but that isn’t getting you any townpoints. Look, yesderday I was pushing both you and KD hard. KD never ever made any excuses but instead did towny things. Had they just said I’m annoyed and I think you’re being unfair to me, I’d still be pushing them.

So tell me why am I one of your top towns? Hell, explain your reads on ANYONE, just please stop with the I’m so annoyed thing, it really isn’t helping.

Like I have mentioned on more than one occasion that you clearly contradicted yourself between posts 1046 and 1047. Why wasn’t that literally the first thing you addressed when you began posting today? Why does it continue to feel like I’m pulling teeth to get my questions answered? You and NM are literally the only slots to continue to ignore my questions. Everyone else has responded to them at the first opportunity.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

where did the blush come from?

That must have happened when I bolded that part of FL’s post.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Also @Amy, that game you referenced. Why? You don’t even have to tell me you were town in that game, just reading a few posts, makes that beyond obvious and I don’t at all see how that game and THIS one are even remotely similar.

You were making multiple nuanced reads with strong convictions, so reading your ISO from that game just highlights to me the clear differences.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

In General

:

Town: I’m legit busy, states specific timeline (as Pepper did and when it will end).

Also Pepper: understands why that casts suspicion on him and promises to make up for it later.

Scum: uses busyness as an excuse for meaningfully engaging with the game. Gets defensive instead of trying to make up for it.

Also

:

Town: doesn’t continue to ignore questions until literally pushed to do so. Makes sincere attempt to respond to questions. While they may mention how busyness/not feeling well etc. has affected them, they don’t usually get defensive about it because they recognize those concerns are completely valid.

In a nutshell, your reaction reads like you somehow expect to be given some sort of pass for these things and there is no legitimate reason for you to expect that. How are we literally expected to distinguish between town!you being annoyed at that vs. scum!you? Regardless of your alignment, that response definitely isn’t town indicative in the slightest.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I mean, for surviving town members, feel free to convince me otherwise.

I just think that an NM venge doesn't do much for town

I don't think NM is town, I think he is NM. This is how he plays regardless of alignment. In our last game together he turned out being a town PR.

Which leads me to this. I have 24 hours from hammer to decide on my venge.

do not hammer me right away

. I will state who I want to venge in thread. I say we give the person a chance to claim and if we still wanna push through, then hammer and I send my venge vote.

HURT: Amy

And sorry Hya, Pepper makes a great deal of sense here. He is clearly obvtown and I think it’s a shame, we have to kill him but I’m damn glad he is clearly thinking and refusing to be complacent.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I mean, for surviving town members, feel free to convince me otherwise.

I just think that an NM venge doesn't do much for town

I don't think NM is town, I think he is NM. This is how he plays regardless of alignment. In our last game together he turned out being a town PR.

Which leads me to this. I have 24 hours from hammer to decide on my venge.

do not hammer me right away

. I will state who I want to venge in thread. I say we give the person a chance to claim and if we still wanna push through, then hammer and I send my venge vote.

HURT: Amy

And sorry Hya, Pepper makes a great deal of sense here. He is clearly obvtown and I think it’s a shame, we have to kill him but I’m damn glad he is clearly thinking and refusing to be complacent.

~M

@Hya, wrt the bolded. what do you think about what Pepper is saying here?

~M