Mini Theme 2158: Cards of Destiny Mafia Game Over

[Kaname Date]

Yes, BEF rb, makes Tris 100% guiltied because that proves she couldn’t have been bus driven.

well... not quite. if Amy was the nightkill target initially, any scum could have killed her, so tris is not 100% guiltied.

and i agree with FL that it was possible for her to be the kill target. so, softguilty at best. this is why i'm reading now.

[Kaname Date]

why is jjh definitely definitely town, again? i've just been accepting that but i don't remember why now.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

unfortunately, i'm not sure it's something that can be dealt with in the thread. i have my own opinions but they're not ones i'd like to have a discussion about here, but i do think it'd be better to avoid engaging with him. if he's scum he's going down, i can guarantee that. just, probably after tris because i prefer her today.

i commented that you didn't reveal exactly how your role works because it'd tell scum how to avoid it (did you confirm this?) and that it's a very weird role and not really what my understanding of traffic analyst is. which, in this game is not surprising, but it is worth noting. a vanilla traffic analyst shouldn't care if the player ever posted in their PT, it should just detect the PT. a role that only detects on a night by night basis if a PT is being

used

is something i can honestly say i've never seen before.

i do hate when players personally insult each other. i didn't like FL's doing it either. but your role itself

is

absolutely a really confusing one.

Okay, sure. We can investigate if a player has had communication outside of the game thread on the specific night we investigate. That’s how we got a positive on FL. So what Gamma said about us getting a negative on a player who has never posted in their PT as well as a player who has every day and night, except for the specific night we investigate. So if we weren’t actually outed TA, then we’d likely have an almost near clear on Gamma but, because we’re outed and especially if scum have daytalk, if Gamma were scum here, why wouldn’t he just not post in his hypothetical PT the exact night he expects us to investigate him, so it’s obviously not a clear and yes, itclearly not a guilty.

I was heavily tr him until his play seemed to change after jjh and BEF expressed suspicions on him and all of his so-called strategic talk has only fuelled this.

From his claim that his defeatist AtE with that ridiculous Survivor video was faked to see if scum would jump on him whatever to his recent response to me about neglecting to inform us about his role being odd night, really pinged me. It read to me like he just seemed to have a convenient explanation for everything. Gamma has played more than enough games with me, to know that I’m never scum here - yet another thing that has pinged me, plus he has yet to take my casing advice which was clearly meant to help him if town.

I tunnelled both you and Amy but both of you, especially you, gave me good reasons to back off and reconsider. I’m still waiting for Gamma to do that. I told him that if he does something to make it clear to me he’s town, I will like I did with both you and Amy, back off and look elsewhere but so far his play has objectively been the scummiest, so yeah, it’s great we have objectively guiltied scum but Gamma’s play hasn’t done really much to make me think I’m wrong.

What does definitely puzzle me though is why he continues to target me specifically, when the entire playerlist is currently sr him. Sad to say but in almost every damn game I’ve ever been town in, scum ALWAYS focuses specifically on me. Whether they try to push me, buddy me, play me etc., so yes, add that to yet another thing that’s pinged me, because I am never ever ignored by scum in any game ever, probably because of what FL said about it being easy for scum to “work me”, so Gamma’s behaviour towards me just keeps fuelling my paranoia about him being the last scum.

~M

[Kaname Date]

Gamma were scum here, why wouldn’t he just not post in his hypothetical PT the exact night he expects us to investigate him, so it’s obviously not a clear and yes, itclearly not a guilty.

but how would Gamma know to avoid posting? as far as i am aware, you didn't claim this aspect of your role until today.

i am also aware the wiki does list it as a possible variation, however, though i had never heard of that before.

[Kaname Date]

also, i know there is a lot from your recent posts i am not specifically responding to. i have to pick a choose things i have something to say about, i don't have the focus to touch on everything in long posts, even when i am completely reading them. but if i miss something important by all means, point it out.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

but for what it's worth, i don't think it's strange that tris's role would confirm to her but not to the other player she's claiming to protect. it' her role, so her having the confirmations make sense. giving a protect target information about a protect on them isn't something usually seen, and would be giving credence to a role that the setup might be built around being an uncomfirmed role.

tris gave the same theory, now that i look.
i keep looking at 2176 and i'm getting nothing.

It's funny how FL accidently saved the town.
I tracked Amy to Tris.

Someone think about that for me before I gladiate

I can see what conclusion you're drawing here, but i'm not a killer. Still, it doesn't make sense that mafia would kill Amy. could this be a result of gamma busdriving? does that clear gamma. which in that case, who actually is mafia then? Flavor and jjh? are you actually mafia or something? that can't be right.

did the mafia actually decide to kill amy? that's a very odd move.

well, i guess we should hear what gamma has to say

I’m seriously confused by this because I don’t see why Hya would lie and then Dunn had this really strange reaction to my questions, which would make sense if this is some kind of fake gambit and Amy was sr Tris and yes it’s possible she could have been the target but Hya claims he tracked Amy to Tris.

UNVOTE:

for now.

If Amy targeted Tris then how can she not be scum though, especially now that BEF claimed to rb Gamma. And Hya claimed to have tracked Amy to Tris, so how is she not guitied scum here?

VOTE: Tris

Unless you think Hya is lying and BEF too, I don’t see how she’s not scum here?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Yes, BEF rb, makes Tris 100% guiltied because that proves she couldn’t have been bus driven.

well... not quite. if Amy was the nightkill target initially, any scum could have killed her, so tris is not 100% guiltied.

and i agree with FL that it was possible for her to be the kill target. so, softguilty at best. this is why i'm reading now.

Yeah that is true, it is possible.

UNVOTE:

For now. But if Gamma was rb’d it obviously couldn’t have been him either.

~M

[Kaname Date]

no, Haya and Fish can all be telling the truth.

as an example: i'm scum, i target Amy to kill her. Amy targets tris.
Amy forces all actions tris makes to target Amy. tris does anything besides a kill.

result: Amy is dead from my kill, Amy still targeted tris. just wasn't murdered by tris, since tris didn't make a killing action.
this is what FL was arguing, i believe.

and yes, if Gamma is the other scum, him being rbed would mean he couldn't have made the kill... but that's an if. so still not a hard guilty.

pedit: ah, alright.

[Kaname Date]

this is also why i asked about your certainty on jjh. i know he hasn't been reading everything, or at least missing mechanical stuff, but he claims tris is 100% the mechanical vote to make today even though FL argued this was not the case.

i'd like to see more talk about this with this in mind considering the stakes of today's elimination.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

why is jjh definitely definitely town, again? i've just been accepting that but i don't remember why now.

I think so based off of those crier messages I posted but wow, if I’m wrong, then I will be kicking myself for not listening to Auro. My NA was totally predicated on hoping to get a guilty on Gamma but then if jjh isn’t town. who is his buddy?

If Tris and Gamma are actually both town here, then I’ve got two reads completely wrong, so occam’s razor points to my not being wrong.

But I know you have great reads and your my #1 town, so I want to hear any theories you have.

~M

[Kaname Date]

like, we have 12 entire days. i consider this important. even with FL's V/LA he's going to come back before we're running out of time.

i've been letting this game fall by the wayside, and i apologize for that. but if you and others are down to play this day through, let's play it.

pedit: aw, thank you.
my analysis right now is probably not great because i am still working on getting myself fully into things and rereading/reading posts i've missed. but i'll do my best.

i didn't fully ISO jjh, but i would certainly feel better about him if more of his analysis had made it to the thread than it has.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Gamma were scum here, why wouldn’t he just not post in his hypothetical PT the exact night he expects us to investigate him, so it’s obviously not a clear and yes, itclearly not a guilty.

but how would Gamma know to avoid posting? as far as i am aware, you didn't claim this aspect of your role until today.

i am also aware the wiki does list it as a possible variation, however, though i had never heard of that before.

Traffic Analyst
Alias:
PT Cop
Alignment: any
Role type:
Investigative
Choice:
Night
A Traffic Analyst is a role that is capable of checking to see whether a player can privately communicate. As an informative role, its night choice is to choose a player, and the analyst will learn whether or not there are any players that that player can legally communicate with outside the game thread. (The identity of the people that the target can communicate with is not learned, nor is the content of the communications.)

Note that merely having access to a private topic is not necessarily enough to be able to communicate; there will have to be a second living player in the private topic in question to communicate with. In general, the role will give a "can communicate" result on a player who shares a private topic with another living player, and also on roles that can use active roles to relay messages via the moderator (such as Mailman and Captain); and a "cannot communicate" result on anyone else.

I kind of think that’s self-evident based off of this, don’t you? Also, just realized from this, that I would have definitely gotten a meaningless positive on jjh because of his crier role.

~M

[Gamma Emerald]

@Mars I think if tris flips scum it is probably FL. tris and D&D both generally had weird reads on FL, tris’ first post towards FL is a bit weird, and D&D’s scum pool at one point rule-of-three implicates FL.

Moving to something else, I’m still not “casing” but the idea I changed my behavior in response to jjh and BEF, now that I’ve thought about it, just doesn’t seem like the truth. The only real shift I felt was when you made the big deal about “if we die it makes Gamma suspicious”. Because there’s ways to be subtle about that but by failing that you put me into defensive mode.

I don’t want to be mean but I’ve sorta lost the ability to be nice by now just FYI. I understand if you don’t want to play with me again but I feel like barring when you let emotions dictate your play, you’re good at the game.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

also, i know there is a lot from your recent posts i am not specifically responding to. i have to pick a choose things i have something to say about, i don't have the focus to touch on everything in long posts, even when i am completely reading them. but if i miss something important by all means, point it out.

Sure but whether or not Gamma would know or not, because my role was outed, it’s not a clear and honestly I think anyone who read this description from Mafia Wiki could definitely have figured it out. Remember, Gamma was the first one (followed by FL) to point out that my role was worthless in the event of NM flipping scum, so I’d say that points to him understanding my role even better than I do.

~M

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma were scum here, why wouldn’t he just not post in his hypothetical PT the exact night he expects us to investigate him, so it’s obviously not a clear and yes, itclearly not a guilty.

but how would Gamma know to avoid posting? as far as i am aware, you didn't claim this aspect of your role until today.

i am also aware the wiki does list it as a possible variation, however, though i had never heard of that before.

Traffic Analyst
Alias:
PT Cop
Alignment: any
Role type:
Investigative
Choice:
Night
A Traffic Analyst is a role that is capable of checking to see whether a player can privately communicate. As an informative role, its night choice is to choose a player, and the analyst will learn whether or not there are any players that that player can legally communicate with outside the game thread. (The identity of the people that the target can communicate with is not learned, nor is the content of the communications.)

Note that merely having access to a private topic is not necessarily enough to be able to communicate; there will have to be a second living player in the private topic in question to communicate with. In general, the role will give a "can communicate" result on a player who shares a private topic with another living player, and also on roles that can use active roles to relay messages via the moderator (such as Mailman and Captain); and a "cannot communicate" result on anyone else.

I kind of think that’s self-evident based off of this, don’t you? Also, just realized from this, that I would have definitely gotten a meaningless positive on jjh because of his crier role.

~M

I made this point before, but the wiki says “CAN communicate”. Have you not heard the joke about the teacher who responds to “can I use the bathroom” with “I don’t know, can you?” Based on the Wiki, the role shouldn’t get a different result if someone doesn’t actually use it. Now we all know by now Maria didn’t use any level of common sense in role definitions and I’ll be reaming her post game for sure for that + horrible vote tracking, but you can only expect so much, and the fact the role deviates that hard is imo a bit bastard

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

no, Haya and Fish can all be telling the truth.

as an example: i'm scum, i target Amy to kill her. Amy targets tris.
Amy forces all actions tris makes to target Amy. tris does anything besides a kill.

result: Amy is dead from my kill, Amy still targeted tris. just wasn't murdered by tris, since tris didn't make a killing action.
this is what FL was arguing, i believe.

and yes, if Gamma is the other scum, him being rbed would mean he couldn't have made the kill... but that's an if. so still not a hard guilty.

pedit: ah, alright.

So that much is definitely clear, right? Gamma did 100% not kill Amy, unless BEF is lying and I don’t see why he’d do that, plus he’s super obvtown here for like a gazillion reasons.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

this is also why i asked about your certainty on jjh. i know he hasn't been reading everything, or at least missing mechanical stuff, but he claims tris is 100% the mechanical vote to make today even though FL argued this was not the case.

i'd like to see more talk about this with this in mind considering the stakes of today's elimination.

Well, I do admit to wondering how he knew DnD was lockscum before the rest of us but Idk?

but yeah, you and FL could be right. I really don’t know what to think anymore.

~M

[Kaname Date]

Mars: okay, i believe you're right in that Gamma could have reasonably believed that you needed a post from him to guilty him and could have avoided that. so it's not an inno.

also, it may be a good idea to simply ask Maria directly if you would get a positive result on the player who is making the crier messages. just to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.

Gamma: do you have a read on jjh?

[Kaname Date]

So that much is definitely clear, right? Gamma did 100% not kill Amy, unless BEF is lying and I don’t see why he’d do that, plus he’s super obvtown here for like a gazillion reasons.

~M

yes, agree. i find it hard to conceive of Fish scum, and Gamma being a bus drive strongman is just mean.

[Kaname Date]

I made this point before, but the wiki says “CAN communicate”. Have you not heard the joke about the teacher who responds to “can I use the bathroom” with “I don’t know, can you?” Based on the Wiki, the role shouldn’t get a different result if someone doesn’t actually use it. Now we all know by now Maria didn’t use any level of common sense in role definitions and I’ll be reaming her post game for sure for that + horrible vote tracking, but you can only expect so much, and the fact the role deviates that hard is imo a bit bastard

read the rest of the wiki page. there is a part about theme variations that matches up to VMP's claimed role.

[Gamma Emerald]

jjh is locktown for me. I reread that day 2 start message during the time my gambit was happening and figured he was the one who sent it, and I town locked him from that point on

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

like, we have 12 entire days. i consider this important. even with FL's V/LA he's going to come back before we're running out of time.

i've been letting this game fall by the wayside, and i apologize for that. but if you and others are down to play this day through, let's play it.

pedit: aw, thank you.
my analysis right now is probably not great because i am still working on getting myself fully into things and rereading/reading posts i've missed. but i'll do my best.

i didn't fully ISO jjh, but i would certainly feel better about him if more of his analysis had made it to the thread than it has.

<3

Being able to locktown in any game is always a good thing. Especially since I’m obviously carrying my hydra and Auro has not been able to fully engage with the game.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

like, we have 12 entire days. i consider this important. even with FL's V/LA he's going to come back before we're running out of time.

i've been letting this game fall by the wayside, and i apologize for that. but if you and others are down to play this day through, let's play it.

pedit: aw, thank you.
my analysis right now is probably not great because i am still working on getting myself fully into things and rereading/reading posts i've missed. but i'll do my best.

i didn't fully ISO jjh, but i would certainly feel better about him if more of his analysis had made it to the thread than it has.

<3

Being able to locktown YOU in any game is always a good thing. Especially since I’m obviously carrying my hydra and Auro has not been able to fully engage with the game.

~M

[Kaname Date]

jjh is locktown for me. I reread that day 2 start message during the time my gambit was happening and figured he was the one who sent it, and I town locked him from that point on

could you explain this in more depth? why can't scum make that crier message?

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

@Mars I think if tris flips scum it is probably FL. tris and D&D both generally had weird reads on FL, tris’ first post towards FL is a bit weird, and D&D’s scum pool at one point rule-of-three implicates FL.

Moving to something else, I’m still not “casing” but the idea I changed my behavior in response to jjh and BEF, now that I’ve thought about it, just doesn’t seem like the truth. The only real shift I felt was when you made the big deal about “if we die it makes Gamma suspicious”. Because there’s ways to be subtle about that but by failing that you put me into defensive mode.

I don’t want to be mean but I’ve sorta lost the ability to be nice by now just FYI. I understand if you don’t want to play with me again but I feel like barring when you let emotions dictate your play, you’re good at the game.

I panicked after I outed our role and since you were my strongest sr att, I thought that maybe we wouldn’t die if I did that and yes, I did think our death did likely implicate you but we’re obviously not dead. It did honestly appear to me that way but I want to fade whomever did kill Amy and that obviously can’t be you.

If you’re town here than I obviously over reacted but I get extremely tilted whenever my intelligence gets questioned. I literally had a man yell at me once, “Are you stupid”? to some completely innocuous question I had asked and it sent me bawling. No, I’m not going to blacklist you if that’s what you’re asking. We have too much really good history for that too happen.

Spoiler:

A50 otoh, completely different story. ISO him in Boon’s TBoNTB, I think the difference is obvious.

Well yes, after you made all of those posts about my intelligence, it 100% did impact my ability to read you clearly like I said, which was frustrating as hell.

~M