Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[TheFourEyedDude]

Like, holy shit, you've spent the past week saying I haven't solved well enough, but then try to shoot me down when I'm digging deeper into an issue. So, excuse me if I'm not just going to sit here and let you go because every three pages you decided to tell everyone I haven't solved the game in the manner of your liking.

[lilith2013]

I’m not going around trying to read crumbs, but if I can get a sense of who might be a PR trying to hide rather than scum acting scummy, how is that a bad thing?

[TheFourEyedDude]

Yeah, you're beyond suspicion, I guess. Can't inspect lillith because she'll tell you its unimportant and you aren't playing the game right, guys. This VT saudade thing is shady to me, and I get to decide that because I'm a person in this game.

[lilith2013]

I have zero clue how you think me saying I didn’t see any of pooky’s crumbs is an issue worth pursuing that you think is going to be AI.

[lilith2013]

No, I don’t think you’re approaching this in good faith whatsoever. To steal a line from someone else, I don’t think you’re in “questioning” mode, you’re already in kill mode.

[UnaBombaH]

Or osuka thought that the definition of rolestopper meant you roleblocked nepenthes instead of making her ascetic, which blocked her track? I don’t understand what scenario of scum roleblocker leads to osuka resolving actions incorrectly.

This weirds me out...like a lot.
You really think it's more likely that a mod who knows the setup throughout just mixes up rolestopper and -blocker suddenly?
Rather than there actually being another role that could potentially mess it up?

I think it's a reasonable mixup if both roles are present in the game, and they had the same target that night.

[TheFourEyedDude]

I have zero clue how you think me saying I didn’t see any of pooky’s crumbs is an issue worth pursuing that you think is going to be AI.

It's not that, I've said this three times, its that you said you thought he was playing like a VT. I don't see the town benefit of trying to identify VTs rather than Town PRs.

[TheFourEyedDude]

No, I don’t think you’re approaching this in good faith whatsoever. To steal a line from someone else, I don’t think you’re in “questioning” mode, you’re already in kill mode.

Fuck off.

[lilith2013]

Osuka didn’t necessarily know the setup, it was designed by cfj. I also thought rolestopper was the same as roleblocker coming into the game. To me it’s clear that under NAR, rolestopper resolves before roleblocker when used on the same target, because that’s literally what rolestopper is supposed to do.

[UnaBombaH]

Btw, if this is SvS^^ happening around me - bravo to the both of you!

And if this TvS, I'm going to be a happy camper when one of you slips.

[lilith2013]

I have zero clue how you think me saying I didn’t see any of pooky’s crumbs is an issue worth pursuing that you think is going to be AI.

It's not that, I've said this three times, its that you said you thought he was playing like a VT. I don't see the town benefit of trying to identify VTs rather than Town PRs.

I’m not going around trying to read crumbs, but if I can get a sense of who might be a PR trying to hide rather than scum acting scummy, how is that a bad thing?

[lilith2013]

This is not a scummy thing to do. I’m allowed to think about who might be a PR when I’m town. You are literally questioning me for something you are supposed to be at least somewhat aware of when town so that you can help your PRs not get wagoned. Scum are by definition PR hunting, and if town doesn’t pay attention to that then we’re already another step behind.

[UnaBombaH]

I also thought rolestopper was the same as roleblocker coming into the game. To me it’s clear that under NAR, rolestopper resolves before roleblocker when used on the same target, because that’s literally what rolestopper is supposed to do.

Then what about a scenario where I was actually roleblocked? (not likely N1, but I think that might've happened last night).
In that scenario, my rolestop is blocked and there's no contradiction even if there might initially appear to be one.
It's not as black and white when you are resolving multiple actions, and we do not know the full role-list.

[lilith2013]

Even still, it’s not like I’m super actively doing it, it’s something I thought about after pooky was already dead, and like in nepenthes’ case it was after she claimed that I looked at her ISO and was like “yeah her being a PR and playing like this kinda makes sense.”

[lilith2013]

I also thought rolestopper was the same as roleblocker coming into the game. To me it’s clear that under NAR, rolestopper resolves before roleblocker when used on the same target, because that’s literally what rolestopper is supposed to do.

Then what about a scenario where I was actually roleblocked? (not likely N1, but I think that might've happened last night).
In that scenario, my rolestop is blocked and there's no contradiction even if there might initially appear to be one.
It's not as black and white when you are resolving multiple actions, and we do not know the full role-list.

That can’t have been the scenario, because the original resolution of you being roleblocked shouldn’t have prevented nepenthes from getting a result.

[lilith2013]

It has to be a scenario where osuka’s intepretation of the actions meant that nepenthes was blocked or you were rolestopped also.

[lilith2013]

Legit this is the fucking weirdest thing to question me about and I can’t imagine what you think you’re going to get out of this that’s AI and can’t first be read in my like 600 other posts. Why this one point in particular out of all the things you could question me about? I don’t believe you genuinely think that PR hunting is the most alignment indicative issue we could talk about given we have 170 pages of content and I’ve provided like, actual reads and game content.

[UnaBombaH]

It has to be a scenario where osuka’s intepretation of the actions meant that nepenthes was blocked or you were rolestopped also.

I was just pointing out that having both of those roles might also

sometimes

provide scenarios that can be confusing upon first inspection.
I feel comfortable "locking in" that scum roleblocked Nep N1, and my rolestop was initially forgotten/not taken into account properly/whatever.

I'm actually quite intrigued by the fact that you seem adamant on scum NOT having a roleblocker..

[lilith2013]

I don’t have any idea whether they have a roleblocker, I just think if they did, it wasn’t necessarily part of osuka’s confusion.

[osuka]

Froppy has requested replacement;

the search for a replacement is underway.

[lilith2013]

SS said the same thing as me. I feel like it’s occam’s razor and the rolestop vs roleblock confusion is the easiest mistake to make.

[UnaBombaH]

I have to go to sleep now, but I can't wait to check this when I wake up.
I especially want to see how Ducky reacts to all of this.
It's gonna be a mouthful to chew for either alignment I guess, but I do think town!Ducky should have no more questions for why I'm so wary of them.

I also want to hear what others think of this lilith-FourEyes -back and forth.

[UnaBombaH]

SS said the same thing as me. I feel like it’s occam’s razor and the rolestop vs roleblock confusion is the easiest mistake to make.

Except I think occams razor explicitly points to both roles being present here.
I do not think mixing up -blocker and -stopper is very likely in itself.

But I guess that's not too relevant here - I'm off to bed now.

[lilith2013]

I guess I think that’s the easiest mistake to make because I also made that mistake

[TheFourEyedDude]

I'm not engaging with you. Every time you decide I'm engaging in "bad faith" discussions, because you get to be the judge of everything in your little world. I know this is going to be another "He hasn't solved the game, despite having said multiple team guesses, pointing out how the claim from Zombie made Zombie scum, and having a scum read on the scum slot since day 1. He hasn't done enough to advance the game, and everytime he talks I say it's just shading me."

Like, I don't see why I should waste my time when you'll just be obtuse about everything and claim I'm shading you.

I don't give enough of a shit about if people want to eliminate me to bother with this discussion that's just going to get me upset. So either rally people to actually eliminate me, or just keep telling everyone how I didn't solve the game enough and watch as all of one person cares in the game while we have a scum slot about ready to be eliminated.