Newbie 2031 - The Wild Hunt (End!)

[Mundivore]

107: Yuck.

What's the problem with that post?

Having the suggestion of a civil tone being shot down like that rubs me the wrong way. Calling D1 accusations "low-key stupid" doesn't serve any purpose. And again, Noraa asking people to refrain from accusing of her of anything upsets me. It's a shame that she replaced out because this is a player that I'd like to push a little. There's a highly reactive and slightly threatening tone to some of her posting that strikes me as very anti-town. "Don't do this I hate this. This accusation is stupid" etc.

I just played my last game with Noraa. I think she's kind of just like that... she's very new to mafia and hasn't developed a lot of the intuitions that feel obvious after some experience.

Since then, Mundivore hasn't posted, so the townread there is getting weaker.

I have come to learn that activity levels are not AI. These games can go for a while, and there will be peaks and valleys in activity. In my experience this stage we are in is the quietest. RVS is over, and usually there a a number of replacements. Relatively few so far in this game. RL issues can play a role too. If a lack of activity is upsetting anyone I will assure them that things

will

get moving. Sometimes it takes a single post to spark a significant change in the pace of the game.

@Redados, why would a lack of activity increase the chances of Mundivore being scum?

I don't think it's so much that activity levels is super AI so much as it is that 'not interrupting town while they're screwing up' is a strong strategy. Throwing a little shade on someone is a good way to get them to come out of their hidey-holes, and the less time they spend it hidey-holes the easier it is to get them caught in things.

It's good to be back in feryland. Though I feel less elven this time

Welcome, welcome. I read a lot of your 'catching up to the thread' posts. In regards to my early, minor suspicion of Arthur, I left my vote on Satisfaction because you tend to get the most valuable / provable information regarding players with a large number of votes on them. That's also why I'm leaving my vote on Arthur: not only am I receiving interesting output from Arthur in response to the vote, but seeing who does and doesn't join my wagon is something I find valuable.

Could you elaborate some more on Not Known? I'm low-key scumreading them right now and I'm not sure how much of it is because of #163 contrasting with my townread on Satisfaction.

Also, can you talk some more on why you find ClarkBar scummy?

[ClarkBar]

I'm not in love with how I've used my vote this game.

I town lean Mundivore and Satisfaction. I'm less than impressed with Satisfaction's wagon, and I agree that it formed quickly enough that if Satisfaction is town then at least one scum would have found a cozy little spot on it.

Out of the three on the wagon I choose VOTE: ArthurConyl.

Please post more. You guys only have a few posts, though I appreciate that Clark is trying to catch up. However weird/wonderful your posts are, it will generate content and be pro-town in the long run.

This feels more LAMIST than genuine.

I've mentioned some things that have stuck out to me. Some of those issues have been shared/brought up by others I townread, namely Mundivore. I can expand upon request.

I'm not hot on sharing a wagon with a slot whose predecessor I would have really liked to engage with more and feel out. The description earlier of her meta and...other stuff I can't mention is leading me to wonder if what was pinging me was personality stuff.

[Satisfaction]

I finished Doggos last night. I have a gut feeling that there is something relevant about Noraa's meta but I just haven't pieced it together yet.

I just played my last game with Noraa. I think she's kind of just like that... she's very new to mafia and hasn't developed a lot of the intuitions that feel obvious after some experience.

Could you sum up Noraa's strategy in Doggos in a sentence or two? I'm interested in your perspective.

[Redados]

the worst, can you elaborate on your scumread on clarkbar?

[Mundivore]

I finished Doggos last night. I have a gut feeling that there is something relevant about Noraa's meta but I just haven't pieced it together yet.

I just played my last game with Noraa. I think she's kind of just like that... she's very new to mafia and hasn't developed a lot of the intuitions that feel obvious after some experience.

Could you sum up Noraa's strategy in Doggos in a sentence or two? I'm interested in your perspective.

IMO, she's too green to have much of an established strategy. She's capable of canny observations but she primarily deals in fluff.

[Bluebell]

Arthur: Mafia
--grasping at straws, overly defensive, changing reasons/ excuses, pressure already being applied by others

Satisfaction and Redados: Town --seem to be honestly investigating, demonstrating reasoning, don't seem to be hiding or else are super tricky. Both very encouraging, helpful but of course have me pocketed (can we say that now?) with avatar and posting mechanics help, haha

Clarkbar: ?
--pursuing game as his time permits, encouraging and educational

Egix96: ?
--Vague. Is it due to his self analysis of play style being correct? Vote to apply some pressure.

Mundivore: Town
--Limited info he gives leans toward analysis and mafia hunting

NotKnown15: ?
--Very Vague, ask questions when I can keep up to press for info.

[ClarkBar]

Man, it's bedtime for this guy. But I have some issues with 230. I'll guess we see if somebody beats me as to why before I can post again tomorrow morning. Or if when I do my homework my issues become more baseless.

[Bluebell]

I'm alongside my languishing lagomorph who needs 24 hour supervision, a little loopy. I even forgot I wanted to change my vote from RVS to Egix96. I have my notes on my impressions from individual posts, so just ask for examples if you want to see where the impressions come from.

UNVOTE: Clarkbar

VOTE: Egix96

[Egix96]

No response to 188, Mundi?

[Egix96]

why would someone question a read that they agree with

This is the second time in the game you've had a stance that doesn't seem genuine to me. I can think of what.... at least 3 answers to this question right now. It's hard for me to believe that you cannot.

Say 'em then, because I don't believe that you believe this.

@ Bottom of 193: Funny how you didn't mention any of that sooner. Are you not aware that trying to pass off a scummy opening as a reaction test is one of the oldest tricks in the scum book?

[Egix96]

Ftr I'm not convinced Arthur is scum.

[Satisfaction]

@ Bottom of 193: Funny how you didn't mention any of that sooner. Are you not aware that trying to pass off a scummy opening as a reaction test is one of the oldest tricks in the scum book?

I did mention it. Have a look at my 71:

VOTE: ArthurConyl It feels like you were fishing for support and then quickly backed down. Why post #35 and #37 at all if you are, as you said, 1) not suspicious and 2) giving me the benefit of the doubt?

I just typed it out bigger and with more bold numbers this time. As for why I didn't lay out the whole argument in excruciating detail the first time a. I thought what I saw was obvious to everybody else and...

Ftr I'm not convinced Arthur is scum.

... b. me neither.

Are you not aware that trying to pass off a scummy opening as a reaction test is one of the oldest tricks in the scum book?

All I have for this is, "lol okay."

[Satisfaction]

Say 'em then, because I don't believe that you believe this.

• When you are wary that scum may be hitching to your wagon.
• When you are trying to pull content out of a lurker who is sheeping but not talking.
• When you are not very confident in your read and you want another perspective to help you work through it.
• When you are trying to get folks on the record so you can revisit later to try to understand their objectives.

Just off the top of my head. There's probably some overlap between those.

[Redados]

I'm alongside my languishing lagomorph who needs 24 hour supervision, a little loopy. I even forgot I wanted to change my vote from RVS to Egix96. I have my notes on my impressions from individual posts, so just ask for examples if you want to see where the impressions come from.

UNVOTE: Clarkbar

VOTE: Egix96

I would like to see your impressions from individual posts

[Satisfaction]

Funny how you didn't mention any of that sooner.

Oh you said the bottom part:

Just for the record, I'm old. Back in my day people were plenty formal on the internet. I also work in tech where people are similarly formal all day, on the internet. All of that said, my intro was purposefully stilted. You and Egix chomped down on it hard.

I felt no need to defend something that what.... seven of the nine players in the game found to be NAI? Also, how I type is something that becomes obvious as the game goes on. If I'm scum because I type in full sentences and claimed my alignment on page one, you need to reevaluate your process. We have 10 pages of content to work with now.

I asked Arthur to talk more and go on offense. He did. I realized that a town!Arthur actually might not understand where I was coming from in my 71 and that scum!Arthur wouldn't invite me to draw attention to his flip-flopping behavior, so I gave him as much as I could in response to clear the air.

I think you can see how I play. I'm investigating. Trying to draw out interesting conversations. I haven't figured out how you play yet. Is your intent to get this post out of me? What does that do for you? You grabbed onto my intro post and pulled us out of RVS. Great work. You created good content by pulling Arthur along with you. Awesome. What are you doing now?

Scum!you has to see that I'm not getting eliminated today. So what are the possible motivations?

• Cast doubt because I'm an obvious NK target and you're planning to not kill me and raise eyebrows D2.
• Waste my time because I'd rather be talking to Not Known (the first person to throw down a real scum accusation in the game) or Bluebell (the frivolous fae flitting in only when flagged) right now.
• Otherwise derail the thread and stall progress.

Town!you only recently stopped lurking. I would like it if Town!you would be a little more straightforward if you are holding on to some big corkboard mastermind vision of the game in your head. Town!us need to kiss and make up.

[Mundivore]

Arthur: Mafia
--grasping at straws, overly defensive, changing reasons/ excuses, pressure already being applied by others

Satisfaction and Redados: Town --seem to be honestly investigating, demonstrating reasoning, don't seem to be hiding or else are super tricky. Both very encouraging, helpful but of course have me pocketed (can we say that now?) with avatar and posting mechanics help, haha

Clarkbar: ?
--pursuing game as his time permits, encouraging and educational

Egix96: ?
--Vague. Is it due to his self analysis of play style being correct? Vote to apply some pressure.

Mundivore: Town
--Limited info

t

he

y

gives leans toward analysis and mafia hunting

NotKnown15: ?
--Very Vague, ask questions when I can keep up to press for info.

Made a correction in bold, don't like to be a prick about it but I do care.

That aside, this is very much a 'vibes' post. I'd like to see Blue participate more in discussion before developing strong opinions on her alignment. My scum-o-meter is pinging mild off her, ~-6. Not nearly as strong a reading as I have on some other folks. Obviously my preferred elim target this instant is Arthur, but right now, I'm wrestling with some very scummy feelings I'm getting from Red... but I can't put a finger why I have the suspicions. I got these same vibes from Red when he was town in Doggos, maybe it's a playstyle thing, but I'm going to have to do another re-read of the thread before I can resolve what my feelings are on him.

Still not moving my vote from Arthur. I'd like to see a response to that question I asked him.

I think there's at least a 25% chance that both the scum are in this current wagon. It came together really quickly and in my experience scum doesn't usually like to hammer.

Further, I think that in the world that both scum are already on the wagon, it's probably Egix and Arthur about 45% of the time versus Egix and Not Known about 40% of the time.

Some scum-team analysis: I think that Satisfaction/Not Known is an impossible scum team. If one is scum, the other is town. I think that Arthur and Not Known are a very unlikely scum team: Not Known is in the SE slot and probably wouldn't sheep their scumbuddy so readily.

I think Arthur is a scum as for who the buddy is, I'm not sure

I think scum!Arthur is pretty likely. Put some pressure on with me?

VOTE: ArthurConyl

Looking back at this, I'm a bit surprised you didn't vote me, considering what you wrote. What would you have done, had Noraa not said anything?

Sorry, this slipped by me, thanks for pointing it out.

I probably still would have voted for Arthur. I think you've been less scummy overall so far, it's just the sort of scenario where

if

there are two scum on the wagon, you're one of them. (Or, I guess I could be, but certainly not from my perspective.) The caveat is that even though I think there's a chance that there are two scum on the early Satisfaction wagon, one scum makes more sense to me.

[Egix96]

Say 'em then, because I don't believe that you believe this.

• When you are wary that scum may be hitching to your wagon.
• When you are trying to pull content out of a lurker who is sheeping but not talking.
• When you are not very confident in your read and you want another perspective to help you work through it.
• When you are trying to get folks on the record so you can revisit later to try to understand their objectives.

Just off the top of my head. There's probably some overlap between those.

Thanks. This is actually really helpful, as the impression that I had was that you were accusing me of lying over a simple difference of opinion.

Funny how you didn't mention any of that sooner.

Oh you said the bottom part:

Just for the record, I'm old. Back in my day people were plenty formal on the internet. I also work in tech where people are similarly formal all day, on the internet. All of that said, my intro was purposefully stilted. You and Egix chomped down on it hard.

I felt no need to defend something that what.... seven of the nine players in the game found to be NAI? Also, how I type is something that becomes obvious as the game goes on. If I'm scum because I type in full sentences and claimed my alignment on page one, you need to reevaluate your process. We have 10 pages of content to work with now.

I asked Arthur to talk more and go on offense. He did. I realized that a town!Arthur actually might not understand where I was coming from in my 71 and that scum!Arthur wouldn't invite me to draw attention to his flip-flopping behavior, so I gave him as much as I could in response to clear the air.

I think you can see how I play. I'm investigating. Trying to draw out interesting conversations. I haven't figured out how you play yet. Is your intent to get this post out of me? What does that do for you? You grabbed onto my intro post and pulled us out of RVS. Great work. You created good content by pulling Arthur along with you. Awesome. What are you doing now?

Scum!you has to see that I'm not getting eliminated today. So what are the possible motivations?

• Cast doubt because I'm an obvious NK target and you're planning to not kill me and raise eyebrows D2.
• Waste my time because I'd rather be talking to Not Known (the first person to throw down a real scum accusation in the game) or Bluebell (the frivolous fae flitting in only when flagged) right now.
• Otherwise derail the thread and stall progress.

Town!you only recently stopped lurking. I would like it if Town!you would be a little more straightforward if you are holding on to some big corkboard mastermind vision of the game in your head. Town!us need to kiss and make up.

"If I'm scum because I type in full sentences and claimed my alignment on page one, you need to reevaluate your process."

There was actually a bit more nuance to it than that. E.g. people usually don't say that they're "aligned" with town.

"I think you can see how I play. I'm investigating. Trying to draw out interesting conversations."

Perhaps so, but even in Newbie queue, there sometimes are scums who can fake this approach convincingly.

"[You have] to see that I'm not getting eliminated today."

I don't see how that's true though.

[Bluebell]

Arthur: Mafia
--grasping at straws, overly defensive, changing reasons/ excuses, pressure already being applied by others

Satisfaction and Redados: Town --seem to be honestly investigating, demonstrating reasoning, don't seem to be hiding or else are super tricky. Both very encouraging, helpful but of course have me pocketed (can we say that now?) with avatar and posting mechanics help, haha

Clarkbar: ?
--pursuing game as his time permits, encouraging and educational

Egix96: ?
--Vague. Is it due to his self analysis of play style being correct? Vote to apply some pressure.

Mundivore: Town
--Limited info

t

he

y

gives leans toward analysis and mafia hunting

NotKnown15: ?
--Very Vague, ask questions when I can keep up to press for info.

Made a correction in bold, don't like to be a prick about it but I do care.

That aside, this is very much a 'vibes' post. I'd like to see Blue participate more in discussion before developing strong opinions on her alignment. My scum-o-meter is pinging mild off her, ~-6. Not nearly as strong a reading as I have on some other folks. Obviously my preferred elim target this instant is Arthur, but right now, I'm wrestling with some very scummy feelings I'm getting from Red... but I can't put a finger why I have the suspicions. I got these same vibes from Red when he was town in Doggos, maybe it's a playstyle thing, but I'm going to have to do another re-read of the thread before I can resolve what my feelings are on him.

Still not moving my vote from Arthur. I'd like to see a response to that question I asked him.

I think there's at least a 25% chance that both the scum are in this current wagon. It came together really quickly and in my experience scum doesn't usually like to hammer.

Further, I think that in the world that both scum are already on the wagon, it's probably Egix and Arthur about 45% of the time versus Egix and Not Known about 40% of the time.

Some scum-team analysis: I think that Satisfaction/Not Known is an impossible scum team. If one is scum, the other is town. I think that Arthur and Not Known are a very unlikely scum team: Not Known is in the SE slot and probably wouldn't sheep their scumbuddy so readily.

I think Arthur is a scum as for who the buddy is, I'm not sure

I think scum!Arthur is pretty likely. Put some pressure on with me?

VOTE: ArthurConyl

Looking back at this, I'm a bit surprised you didn't vote me, considering what you wrote. What would you have done, had Noraa not said anything?

Sorry, this slipped by me, thanks for pointing it out.

I probably still would have voted for Arthur. I think you've been less scummy overall so far, it's just the sort of scenario where

if

there are two scum on the wagon, you're one of them. (Or, I guess I could be, but certainly not from my perspective.) The caveat is that even though I think there's a chance that there are two scum on the early Satisfaction wagon, one scum makes more sense to me.

I appreciate the correction.

[Bluebell]

I'm alongside my languishing lagomorph who needs 24 hour supervision, a little loopy. I even forgot I wanted to change my vote from RVS to Egix96. I have my notes on my impressions from individual posts, so just ask for examples if you want to see where the impressions come from.

UNVOTE: Clarkbar

VOTE: Egix96

I would like to see your impressions from individual posts

Here are my notes on your posts:

Redados:
12 fun/fluff
14 fun/fluff
15 fun/fluff
42 calling (someone) out
44 encouraging, educational
45 calling out
47 fun/fluff
49 fun/fluff
50 investigating
59 educational
63 reasoning
67 encouraging
76 educational
77 reasoning, educational
85 encouraging, fun/fluff
87 educational, encouraging
115 reasoning, educational
120 calling out, investigating
122 educational
127 encouraging, educational
129 reasoning, educational
130 fun/fluff
132 educational
133 educational
135 calling out, ed
137 educational, reasoning
139 reasoning, investigating
142 reasoning
144 reasoning
145 reasoning
147 investigating
149 fun/fluff
151 reasoning
154 fun/fluff
172 reasoning, encouraging, calling out
173 investigating, educational
176 reasoning
184 reasoning, educational, calling out
185 reasoning, calling out
187 reasoning, educational

[Satisfaction]

I don't see how that's true though.

That's fair. 9 players, 5 to kill. 2 scum. 1 me. That leaves 3 people to convince out of 6 townies. Seems unlikely to me, but of course it's not impossible.

[Not Known 15]

What makes you think I was fishing for support?

Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. Let's step through it.

Emphasis mine, numbers inserted:

Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I am town-aligned. Good luck and have fun.

@Clark I just finished reading Space. Tough break. Is there anything you wish you would have done differently in that game?

VOTE: Bluebell For Feryland!

1)

That sounds a bit robotic/awkward to me.

2)

This is Satisfaction's first game, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

3)

Does sound like it could be a noob scum,

4)

I'd be suspicious if it wasn't his first game.

1) Shade
2) Backing off
3) Shade
4) Backing off

@Noraa

Maybe try reading it again? xD "Hello. My name is Satisfaction and I an town-aligned. Good luck and have fun."

5)

Doesn't it sound odd to you? No offence, it sounds like an automated message.

6)

People are hardly ever that formal on the internet and certainly not on here.

5) Polling for support.
6) Shade

Yeah I agree with you there,

7)

scum wouldn't be that obvious.

8)

The post is NAI, but it's

9)

just something to think about. Do you know anyone here?

7) Backing off
8) paraphrasing: "Oh I'm just kidding, none of this matters..."
9) "... oh but maybe we should still keep it in mind"

Essentially you made no claim here you stick to. It was wishy washy. All it really did was associate my name with scum and leave you room to back up and say:

I also explained that

10)

I was trying to generate discussion and clearly stated in my original post that

11)

it was probably NAI. If anything, it feels more like you're trying to start a wagon on me for arbitary reasons.

FoS Satisfaction

10) paraphrasing: "I'm just town doing town things."
11) paraphrasing: "Remember when I said it didn't really matter?" Remember the other half of that sentence?

---

Just for the record, I'm old.

Back in my day

people were plenty formal on the internet. I also work in tech where people are similarly formal all day, on the internet. All of that said, my intro was purposefully stilted. You and Egix chomped down on it hard. We are past the point of this wagon (the wagon on me) generating information and unless you actually think I'm scum because of the way I introduced myself in the second post of the game I think it's time to move on.

I'm here to win the game, not to win the day. Let's go. Thanks for the reads.

Bluebell

is next.

Hmmm.

Why aren't you voting Satisfaction?

Who are you talking to here @Not Known?

Everyone except you.

This case on Arthur is good.
One of them(Arthur, Satisfaction) is very very likely scum.
The question is: Who?

Looking at their ISO this thing stood out in addition to what was said before:

Since Clark is doing a reread of everyone, I'm going to follow his example and do the same.

Since X is doing Y, I do it. LAMIST.


Not sure who is it yet, so I will not move my vote at the moment.

[the worst]

My Clark read is hard to explain, honestly. I feel like he's performing for us, to some extent. He feels like friendly enough and like he wants to be seen to be doing things but I feel what he's saying, uh...lack a certain crunchy quality? He's still in first gear?

[ArthurConyl]

I have a question for town!Arthur. How much do you think your scum read on me is due to the effect of OMGUS—essentially, reading me as scum because I'm putting voting pressure on the one person you know is definitely town—and how much do you think can be attributed to external factors? Other than my vote on you, which you don't like, why do you think that I am scum?

Had to dig into the logs to find the question, so would be nice if you could quote the question next time.

I admit that you voting for me in that way was a big part of me scumreading you. I still feel like that's a reasonable view to have. You didn't even cite any reasons and naked voted. Later you asked Redados to explain his reasoning for voting me, even though you're the one who should've had that reasoning first. Barring your vote, I also felt that your play throughout had been fluffy and inactive. Until the post where I scumread you, you had no real content to read off.

In response to the wagon analysis btw, I do somewhat agree that one guy on the wagon could be scum. However I think you're overreading it. There are 9 guys here and only 3 on the wagon. Aren't the odds more against a scum on the wagon that for?
Also the scum team analysis. It looks a lot like trying to second-guess the scum and I don't see any value in it right now.

[ArthurConyl]

I have a question for town!Arthur. How much do you think your scum read on me is due to the effect of OMGUS—essentially, reading me as scum because I'm putting voting pressure on the one person you know is definitely town—and how much do you think can be attributed to external factors? Other than my vote on you, which you don't like, why do you think that I am scum?

Had to dig into the logs to find the question, so would be nice if you could quote the question next time.

I admit that you voting for me in that way was a big part of me scumreading you. I still feel like that's a reasonable view to have. You didn't even cite any reasons and naked voted. Later you asked Redados to explain his reasoning for voting me, even though you're the one who should've had that reasoning first. Barring your vote, I also felt that your play throughout had been fluffy and inactive. Until the post where I scumread you, you had no real content to read off.

In response to the wagon analysis btw, I do somewhat agree that one guy on the wagon could be scum. However I think you're overreading it. There are 9 guys here and only 3 on the wagon. Aren't the odds more against a scum on the wagon that for?
Also the scum team analysis. It looks a lot like trying to second-guess the scum and I don't see any value in it right now.

[ArthurConyl]

Since Clark is doing a reread of everyone, I'm going to follow his example and do the same.

Since X is doing Y, I do it. LAMIST.


Not sure who is it yet, so I will not move my vote at the moment.

You're overreading that line. I noted that Clark was rereading everyone and it reminded me that now was a good idea to do the same, because most people have some decent content at this stage.