Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Morning Tweet]

I don't really think they can afford to worry about the short-term just surviving this one day, they kinda needs that specific non-chara player to survive like 4-5 eliminations.

I guess you're right that they might focus on saving Not Chara if they're in a bad spot but I would be thinking about the nonChara

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but then the nightkill would still point towards Taylor being scum..

[Prism]

HURT: Isis

I hate to post again tonight but I can't stop thinking that I need to rein in my excitable instincts.

This could still be the team, but I need to recenter tomorrow and remove my emotions from it. My early thoughts tend to be good, it's when I let my excitement get the better of me that things start going to shit.

[Krazy]

Quick, someone vote me. Krazy? You know you want to

On it! VOTE: Morning Tweet



I don't know what I just did to my sleep schedule but it probably was nothing good

[Morning Tweet]

It doesn't count in that format but i appreciate the gesture nonetheless!

i finally finished my paper. But its 4 am. So that's awkward. Maybe the vote will give me motivation tomorrow. somehow i just don't think itll be the same as Prism grilling Hectic though

[Tayl0r Swift]

a few key differences between that game and this one:

1) im not engaged with this one, or wasnt until like 8 hours ago. im always engaged as scum, but not always as town.
2) theres an active and loud town leader, and to me if theres an active and loud town leader all reads revolve around that person and whether you follow the leader or not. i dont do well in an environment like this game where prism is dictating everything.
3) people there engaged with me. here people ignored me for like 65 pages. if you want me to play you sometimes need to put some pressure on me.

saying this game isnt like my n=1 towngames is a weak argument. but then to imply it is like my n=0 scumgames is bullshit and you know it. and if you just read my iso in the last few hours i think i pretty clearly towntold.

[Lavender]

I’m dead, gone, and over
I’ll read, tomorrow
And maybe say something more useful than this
Well I hope future me will

[Prism]

2) theres an active and loud town leader, and to me if theres an active and loud town leader all reads revolve around that person and whether you follow the leader or not. i dont do well in an environment like this game where prism is dictating everything.

I think this is extremely fair. Part of me getting excitable is that my reads get worse-but the other part is that the demand it puts on the other players is immense. I have learned many times over that, try as I may, I cannot win alone, and no amount of reading will grant me the superpower I want. I will also note that this game has really only been dictated by me/had to suffer my energy in the last week.

I think the biggest immediate obstacle for you right now is just sharing what it is you're seeing in Chara/Tanner. One is a near-universal TR and one is pretty safe. Having two gutreads is natural, but digging deeper and making them more concrete is really important here.

What is it that you think you're seeing that everyone else is missing about these two?

[Prism]

For my part, I'm very willing to step back here and give more space to others. This game has desperately needed that. If that means we flip Krazy, and I get nightkilled without the gamesolve of my dreams, so be it. And if I don't, I will get my chance again.

I don't want to lose. That's all there is to it.

[Tanner]

tbh i didnt even remember chara scumreading those posts. i was having a bad day tbh. honestily i think im kind of obvtown, so ive been ignoring most of the scumreads on me (except you tanner ) but i always think im obvtown so if im wrong and someone wants me to jump in here lemme know

i feel honoured <3

i dislike not having a vote on someone, but i'm not feeling this as strongly anymore, and it is anyway probably not happening HURT: isis

Admittedly some of my read is warped by generally feeling like town datisi often feels on the lurky/reactive side even though that may not be how he conceptualizes his play and anything I say about him is going to be six months out of date anyway.

this confuses me, because (you're right that that isn't how i would conceptualize my general townplay, off-games happen) i feel like my play this game has been exactly lurky/reactive. i'm not gonna argue about tone because i don't see anything productive coming from that discussion, but can you get into what makes you think i'm scum from the meta-perspective?

This is scummy

thank you krazy very cool

got a feeling if there's someone oppotrunistically jumping on me, it's tayor sooner than krazy or even puppy
the progression on me went from "probably town" to "this is a weird townlean from you" to "? gut ?"

Tanner is datisi.

wait really?

yes

if i were scum fine to end it id concede. if i were scum trying to lurk it out: lol. if i were scum otherwise, id be putting up a fight and making some garbage up.

being engaged with a game is null, but being apathetic is town-indicative for me

i believe you and this is why i don't want to vote you. :<

taylor, what do you count as "making garbage up"? because your read/push on me kinda feels like that

i'm reading the prism/hectic thing and like... earlier my tinfoil scumteam was hectic/morning-tweet and now i'm thinking of beeboy's heal again and sighhh

if lavender is scum here btw i am officially joining tanner in running to the nearest CVS, buying a $10.79 handle of popov, and downing it in under a minute

please don't hold me to this i don't drink my tolerance is super low but i will do some wine one night

i actually forgot about that slot
this close to saying to hell with it and trying to fight them again

3) people there engaged with me. here people ignored me for like 65 pages. if you want me to play you sometimes need to put some pressure on me.

you mean like when i was begging you throughout day one to play and give us something?

[CantHateAPuppy]

The number of mod votes in this game is crazy for what is an open setup tbh

[CantHateAPuppy]

I had a dream about this game last night

I dreamt that someone (not anyone actually in this game, someone from a different site) asked me what I thought of a really implausible scumteam

I don't even remember the exact team, it had yellow avatars? Like prism/taylor/pooky or something really imausible. I use grayscale on my phone (dogs are color blind) so I don't remember exactly

Anyways I said "that's the most implausible scumteam I've ever heard. Why do you mention it"

"Well, I put a curse on those players so they would associate differently in case they were scum. But I screwed up, it was a love curse, I think I made it so those players would fall in love"

Then at that point I started dreaming about being a professional chef running a restaurant out of my dining room serving roast duck with an appetizer of soup rice

[Hectic]

Wait, Prism, we can both agree that Tayl0r is either town, or scum with exactly me (based on yesterday's actions of not voting Ele'sclunterwagon which was me, and beeboy pushing her). While Sujimichi could be scum with many. Let's FIGHT Suji today and if Tayl0r/I flip as Chara, simply FIGHT the other tomorrow for the win.

While, if we FIGHT Tayl0r and she's town, and Chara!Suji escapes, the game will get a whole lot harder if you're town, since there's no obvious partner outside of you.

One of these orders makes infinitely more sense than the other.

[Hectic]

OH NO, dreams where you come up with solves... my greatest weakness.

Launchy locktown.

[Tanner]

Wait, Prism, we can both agree that Tayl0r is either town, or scum with exactly me (based on yesterday's actions of not voting Ele'sclunterwagon which was me, and beeboy pushing her).

While Sujimichi could be scum with many.

Let's FIGHT Suji today and if Tayl0r/I flip as Chara, simply FIGHT the other tomorrow for the win.

While, if we FIGHT Tayl0r and she's town, and Chara!Suji escapes, the game will get a whole lot harder if you're town,

since there's no obvious partner outside of you.

One of these orders makes infinitely more sense than the other.

?

[Hectic]

I mean that it's not obvious that it's exactly this one person, like how Prism is making it out to be with me/Tayl0r.

Prism, Chara, Pooky, Lavender, Tanner all work as partners. I just don't have to figure out who right now.

[Tanner]

right, fair.

the reason taylor doesn't make sense as scum with anyone but you is why you were townreading her in 1590, right? (remind me if here's anything else, i don't do well with reading a lot of contentful pages at once...) erasing any opportunity to jump on your wagon later?

my room-temperature bad-VCA take is that beeboy is prob town for how "fast" the wagon was there but also that i'd be willing to vote there if really necessary

Very much disagree with this. What do you think scum would do in this situation if beeboy is town? There were no other viable counterwagons as more people started voting him, the other largest wagon at the time was actually Chara on 2 votes, and you can be the judge of how likely scum thinks that'll go through.

The rate at which the wagon grew tells me very little, since scum in equal parts would want to get on for buscred if they think he's going down, but what does alarm me a little is no one taking up the opportunity on the Tayl0r counterwagon that arose a little later. catboi and beeboy both voted her and i wouldn't have been surprised if it swayed some others, but no one else joined.

can we talk about this post? truth be told, i didn't/don't fully understand it, did you mean "if beeboy is scum*"?

i'm not sure what i'm actually asking of you here, because i'm looking for anything that's gonna make me actually want to vote someone more strongly than "lol idk i guess", and i feel like this post might be Relevant, so do you have anything to offer me about it?

[Prism]

None of what you said is true FMPOV. While I did have that as my solve at last check-in, my reply to you asserting only that made sense was tongue-in-cheek. A big part of my point is that Tayl0r seems to make sense with several while Krazy is just me/Lavender and maybe Tanner. 1590 is indicative but not definitive.

Pretty sure Puppy just described a me/Chara team

Regardless of Taylor's alignment I do want to make room for others though. Consider this my day off. I'll be reading but avoiding posting. Hold me to it by giving me a nice STFU if needed.

Flip Krazy if you want, don't feel pressured to wait for me. I think Tayl0r/Hectic makes some sense but so do a few others. There's also a world where Pooky-chara is waiting to quickhammer that I haven't explored.

[Hectic]

Yeah, I meant to say if beeboy is scum there, Tanner. 1590 combined with 1593 is why I think Tayl0r is strongly town.

I think 1590 is very indicative, if not definitive, Prism, I don't know what else you're looking for in terms of telling non-partner evidence, as is beeboy pushing for Tayl0r.

I think Pooky's an unlikely [red font]Chara[/red font] for bussing beeboy. He'd make more sense as non-Chara scum.

[Hectic]

Chara, you voted me for 1752. Does 1809 do anything for you?

[Tanner]

why is beeboy pushing taylor that non-partner indicative for you? taylor never got to more than 2 votes, and one of those was a "mistake" by catboi. if there were other people jumping on that wagon, i'd give this points, since that would mean scum was actually trying to push that through, but considering nobody did, what makes you rule out s/s push that's obviously going nowhere?

[Hectic]

Because if scum's plan at that point is to bus because their situation is really so dire, then why does scum!Tayl0r never vote for beeboy to get some sweet towncred? Also, I don't think scum!beeboy had given up at that point. These posts make me thing he was really trying to get the FIGHT and save himself:

Spoiler:

hectic - probably town. stop being a goof though, and while i agree that deciding lavender is town rather than scum is passing on an opportunity for opportunism, it feels like a weak read
elements - beeboy hasnt really done anything to make me townread that slot (yet)
chara - am i the only one thinking chara might be scum here? chara let themself be talked into scumreading me pretty easily, and seems to float around the popular opinions a lot but never do much scumhunting
prism - prolly just town
pooky - definitely town
catboi - i still have misgivings
morning - those ears could never be scum
lavender - needs more content, in PoE
redtea - i dont remember any posts from this slot. i guess at some point i should read the iso but its not a good sign if they arent doing anything worth remembering. could just be the awolness that made me forget
tanner - prolly just town
puppy - hasnt really done much townie recently, but was a townread earlier

so that makes my PoE chara, lavender, redtea, puppy. out of those i want to HURT: chara

Ok so I've made it my vow to at least read every post from when I've replaced in, even if I can't will myself to read from the start.

I really hate this post overall, it's literally just positioning and nothing more.
The seperation between, me, red tea, lavender is literally nothing yet I dodge the POE somehow.

I think this post has instances in which reads could be explained such as the puppy read. Like I understand not having a reasoning for a read but avoiding explaining the shift on let's say puppy is just weird to me and usually just scummy.

Chara read is really the only explained one and to be fair is the one that gets voted, but it just feels like a giant fluff post to hide having to engage Chara on a deeper level in order to smoothly place the vote.

im down for a beeboy wagon

Then the instant swap here after being prodded about me lol.

HEAL: Morning Tweet
HURT: Tayl0r Swift

I am fine doing either of these really?
Top to buy more time, bottom because I very much am happy with that read :)

Prism I don't think your Hectic vote is going anywhere.
Who else are you looking at right now?

Taylor is a good idea I think.

hectic - probably town. stop being a goof though, and while i agree that deciding lavender is town rather than scum is passing on an opportunity for opportunism, it feels like a weak read
elements - beeboy hasnt really done anything to make me townread that slot (yet)
chara - am i the only one thinking chara might be scum here? chara let themself be talked into scumreading me pretty easily, and seems to float around the popular opinions a lot but never do much scumhunting
prism - prolly just town
pooky - definitely town
catboi - i still have misgivings
morning - those ears could never be scum
lavender - needs more content, in PoE
redtea - i dont remember any posts from this slot. i guess at some point i should read the iso but its not a good sign if they arent doing anything worth remembering. could just be the awolness that made me forget
tanner - prolly just town
puppy - hasnt really done much townie recently, but was a townread earlier

so that makes my PoE chara, lavender, redtea, puppy. out of those i want to HURT: chara

Hey Taylor, really glad to see you collect your reads like that. I get some of your misgivings on catboi, but can you expound on why you shifted to thinking overeager town awhile back?

It seems like the scumread was more gutreaction to Pooky, but I'm curious as to what you were thinking as you read.

i dont know if i could really articulate my read on catboi. actually ive kinda proven that i cant. theres just something there i dont like.

i guess catboi and beeboy are also in PoE.

im down for a beeboy wagon

@Hectic the progression throughout these 3 posts is what I view as scum indicative.
It feels very fast and all in response to posts that reference me, like "ah yes guess I will miselim this town if you all insist."

I've mentioned this before, but half of the votes at the time when beeboy came back were pressure votes since he wasn't doing anything. That's not an irredeemable position if he towns it up a little. Lavender was being pushed by you and I don't think people would've had too many qualms voting there, so why not push there if it's beeboy/Tayl0r? Alternatively, he could push me with Prism, who was very tunnelled at that point.

[Tanner]

i feel like i'm braindead today, lemme know if i'm comically missing the point

devil's advocate answer to the first one is "because late votes don't give towncred" but ehh

okay, so, you're arguing that scum!beeboy thinks he has a chance of getting out of the noose, and is seriously trying pushing taylor through / thinks the wagon has a chance. and the other two scum are doing ... ? they're standing by?

Lavender was being pushed by you and I don't think people would've had too many qualms voting there, so why not push there if it's beeboy/Tayl0r? Alternatively, he could push me with Prism, who was very tunnelled at that point.

lol i got a theory why he didn't push lavender but you won't like it

in all seriousness, doesn't this apply to almost any team other than beeboy/(hectic/lavender)?

[CantHateAPuppy]

This game is weird because there's no wagon development. Like we sat on one fight yesterday and are sitting on one fight today

Not sure what that implies but I'm going to think about it

[Hectic]

and the other two scum are doing ... ? they're standing by?

They're afraid of joining the wagon straight after beeboy pushes it, since it'll be a death sentence for them if beeboy flips. Realistically, they need 1 or 2 townies to bite the bait, before they jump on to help out, but that never happening is my theory for why the wagon never took off.

I can't wrap my head around the second part of your post. I think we might be exhausting this line a little.