Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[duppin]

@shelly could you elaborate a bit on why you think there has to be a scum between me and Tayl0r?

I scumread Taylor and I townread you.

If Taylor flips green, I am inclined to trust their read, since this whole thing feels off to me somehow. idrt you’re TvT’ing, the way Taylor hard tunnels you and ignores everything else is very scum indicative and I don’t think it’s scum theatre due to the genuineness of the whole argumentation

okay hm I actually dislike this post as it comes across as you trying to set up chainlynches

[duppin]

i see. Out of curiosity if it was someone other than Redados who voted, would you still have concluded it was an attempt at pushing a mislynch rightaway or is this assumption based on your read on Redados?

I would assume this for anyone that did this that I currently have even the slightest SR on.

this should indicate that it is not alignment indicative then. I think its perfectly valid to try to apply pressure to less active players

[shellyc]

okay hm I actually dislike this post as it comes across as you trying to set up chainlynches

that’s the most horrific pagetop I’ve seen in a while

I mean, im doing associatives and is that a bad thing? no

[duppin]

okay hm I actually dislike this post as it comes across as you trying to set up chainlynches

that’s the most horrific pagetop I’ve seen in a while

I mean, im doing associatives and is that a bad thing? no

actually concluding that a town flip from tayl0r would make me scum is pretty bad yes especially if you have a townread on me

[shellyc]

actually concluding that a town flip from tayl0r would make me scum is pretty bad yes especially if you have a townread on me

Like. cause I don’t think its TvT. and if Taylor flips green id have to reconsider you

I won’t do an immediate 180, just will RECONSIDER. is that clear

[Mundivore]

hey sorry, I've been feeling off for a while, haven't checked the thread in a couple of days. Catching up now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

hey sorry, I've been feeling off for a while, haven't checked the thread in a couple of days. Catching up now.

You poor soul.

[duppin]

sure its only natural to reconsider, just felt like you pushed the TvS angle a bit.

i think my problem i have is that i have a difficult time understanding why you think this is likely to be TvS. don't get me wrong i understand that you are scumreading tayl0r and townleaning on me but i am just a bit unsure as to why think our interactions indicate TvS. perhaps i am slightly biased since i am in the middle of it but yea i dont know

[Mundivore]

WELCOME DAVE

oh as for my own read on Saudade I said early on why I thought he was slightly suspicious earlier, generally it comes to me getting the impression that he was just trying to be heard and make sure he had a presence without actually attempting to game solve. My initial plan was to just give him some time and wait for him to do something. he and a couple of other players talked about him having good reads and I have to admit I thought it was a bit odd how he kept talking about his own good reads while also saying he had no real reads yet since it is early on in the game. Don't get me wrong it obviously makes sense for him to not have good reads yet and it is definitely not fair for me to call him out for that, but i think you will agree that it is harder to fake good reads as scum which was why I wanted to give him some more time to see if he would come with these so called "god reads", but then a little later norwee decided to vote on him which I did not expect, but I decided to join the wagon since I thought it would be interesting to see what would happen. Unfortunately he had to deal with some real life stuff which made the push rather lackluster in my opinion

Something feels off to me about this...

oh as for my own read on Saudade I said early on why I thought he was slightly suspicious earlier, generally it comes to me getting the impression that he was just trying to be heard and make sure he had a presence without actually attempting to game solve. My initial plan was to just give him some time and wait for him to do something. he and a couple of other players talked about him having good reads and I have to admit I thought it was a bit odd how he kept talking about his own good reads while also saying he had no real reads yet since it is early on in the game. Don't get me wrong it obviously makes sense for him to not have good reads yet and it is definitely not fair for me to call him out for that, but i think you will agree that it is harder to fake good reads as scum which was why I wanted to give him some more time to see if he would come with these so called "god reads", but then a little later norwee decided to vote on him which I did not expect, but I decided to join the wagon since I thought it would be interesting to see what would happen. Unfortunately he had to deal with some real life stuff which made the push rather lackluster in my opinion

Why is this post so weird? It sounds defensive and unnatural explaining his own logic/thought process at the time. Maybe it's just the wording that's pinging me.

Oh hey, I wasn't the only one who noticed.

noraa I feel like I can't win with you.

scum slip. No shit scum!redados can't win with me. I'm SRing u so hard.

As I said when I gave my reads before he hasn't really done much to change my mind. No matter what his alignment is I believe he is too caught up on Noora's push on him.
What I will say though is that I am actually a bit surprised with his latest posts as I did not expect him to defend me. If he is scum it seems more logical for him to at least try to discredit me a little bit since I called him scummy.

My current limpool is {noraa, unowen, mundivore, shelly} although I'll probably have to widen that to avoid a mislim of course.

Where is bugspray?

Where is mundivore?? Mundivore has done very little hunting today and has stayed mostly under the radar. VOTE: Mundivore

wtf? Why are u voting a really inactive slot now?
VOTE: Redados
ur so scummy its unbelievable

Why do you think that's a scummy thing to do?

Lurkers/less active players are easy to get mislims on

I mean, she's right... but I don't know how AI this is because the case is so weak. This is more like 'player-prod' than anything else, which I'd call about 51% town-leaning.

[PlusJOYED]

good god you're obvscumming so hard

elaborate
the post was not especially AI

i'll do a full casing of norway soonish

[NorwegianboyEE]

Don't waste your breath. I'm town.

[PlusJOYED]

finally ive finished the 12 pages

i think norwayVplus is kinda TvS-ish, with the lack of coherent logic
I think taylor is my top SR
plusjoy is still a scummy slot
scumpings on noraa has increased but might just be LHF
if taylor is red duppin is probgreen
norwee has now become nullish
redados is townleaning with the pushes and mentality i see a townie mindset tbh
mundivore iso isnt exactly great but i want to see more content
jester still town
hot take i kinda SR bugs for not giving us his notes but stating he has notes in notes pt. moving out of rvs is nai and idk why hes getting so much cred for it.

i'll look at jackson later but I TR him and I thought you vs Jackson was TvT. I think you thinking Jackson is scum is mainly because you were scrappin

[Odd Day Jester]

For many years I've been trying to find the secret of making sleep obsolete, but you lot seem to already have that pinned down.

Redados saying Noraa is tunneling because of new player energy, but then making no hypothesis or conclusion on her alignment is sus, like in 1634.

Tayl0r's obsession with getting people to look at and ISO duppin is sus and feels exaggerated. She doesn't bring up any duppin posts and explains exactly which points she finds suspicious, she instead asks people to "look at" duppin over and over, which isn't particularly helpful for convincing people someone is scummy if she really believes that.
1700 - Not a fan of this either. This is too BIG PICTURE in terms of evaluating shelly and Noraa's playstyles. Yes, their playstyles may be NAI, but what about their content and reasons and you know, the stuff you're supposed to look at to determine who's scum in a game of mafia? Slotting 2 of the top posters as null reads because their playstyles are NAI is a particularly lazy read from Tayl0r.

duppin's responses to the push are towny, my only qualm being how he's somewhat apologetic/understanding of Tayl0r's reasons, I'd have liked if he ripped into her a little more. I think this is just his personality though.

1728 - Tayl0r's push and this post read as incredibly bad faithy. Her whole problem with duppin is lack of reasoning for scumreads. Duppin provides the reasoning and points out he's explained them before. Tayl0r responds with "getting a scumread from you is like pulling teeth." rather than acknowledging she was wrong.

1734 - Why in the world are you not voting for Tayl0r by this point, duppin?

1743 - Norwee is 17.293021% scum

Top of page 71 now, but I really scumread Tayl0r at this point. The way she approaches and talks with duppin reeks of bad faith, like she's set on tunneling someone and even when duppin raises a good point or evidence to refute what she's saying, she never fails to find a way to sidestep it. Not conceding ANY points in an argument is a scumtell, and I think this is scum!Tayl0r finding a nice cosy tunnel since that's not a bad strat for scum most of the time to look engaged and occupied, but it looks really forced here.

Tayl0r launch, people?

[shellyc]

im all in for it
been scumrading the slot to hell and back

PLUS YOU’RE JACKSON, im not a fan of the lamist

[Mundivore]

@bugspray part of the reason I have fewer posts than you is that I tend to react to or say multiple things in the same post. I don't like being very spammy. I fewer large posts to many small posts, though I'll still spam a bit if things come to me after reading them.

Something feels very offputting about duppin to me right now. Think shellyc is town this game, although I'm surprised she ignored my vote on her, that seems pretty OOC. I have my reservations but... she's not as scummy as one of the players she pressuring, Redados. Red feels like a weak scum case, though, and I think I have something better.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: duppin

This is my first fairly confident scumread, so far. I don't have a ton of time today, but I'm going to be composing my scumcase where I have time/energy for it. The summary of my case is: duppin is playing

defensively

but not

cautiously.

Usually, when a townie is defensive, it's because they don't want to be mislim'd. If 'avoiding mislims' rather than 'finding good elims' is their mindset for their towngame, then that generally implies an overall cautious playstyle.

But duppin is fairly confident in his reads and his play in general. He's playing like the primary focus he has is finding good elims. I don't get the 'cautious' vibe from him, just 'defensive.' Which pings pretty hard scum to me, because it's a mismatch in demonstrated priorities. Player who prefer a 'finding good elims' mindset tend not to worry about being proactively defensive, because it reduces the chance they'll get NK'd and takes up time that could be used to find a better elim. Meanwhile, duppin feels like he's occupied with remaining in a town-read slot, despite appearing to prioritize elimming people rather than not miselimming people.

I'm about 90% confident on this read. We'll see if actually going through his ISO convinces me further or dissuades me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Tayl0r launch, people?

If it get's us out of this dreadful day then i'm all in.

[PlusJOYED]

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

redados SR'd saude, didnt he?

but you've made your point, I'll sort redados later as I have experience with them, for now I want to sort you + Grendel first

But he did absolutely nothing with it. He did not try to engage anyone or push which lead to me thinking he is trying to avoid confrontation.

and this is kinda fair, but redados has since engaged with people and done some good stuff. you havent. and you havent really pushed anyone except for the eight posts you pointed out to me, of which half were not doing anything except repeating/not really pressuring but just pointing stuff out with surface-level analysis. we are now 50 pages into the game and you've expressed one scumread based on meta that other people presented, and one scum read based on really weak arguments that you havent done much to follow up on and havent done much with. I cant follow your progessions at all, and i find it hard to believe that your only scumreads are an inactive player based on a sheeped meta-read and a weak "you havent done enough solving" argument that id say isnt even true anymore.

What do you mean? Which one of my scumreads do you believe is based on base that other people have presented? Neither the redados nor the Saudade read is based on their meta in fact I mentioned I am very confused about the meta reads on Saudade because some people claim it is his town meta whereas others claim it is a scumtell for him.

As for Redados could you elaborate on your read on him? you claim he has since done some good stuff but what exactly are you referring to?

Yes I have only given 2 more solid scumreads, do you believe that is a scumtell? If so then I expect you to be more consistent with it. I have also found some townreads I feel rather strong about it for whatever that is worth and I am perfectly fine with that on day 1.

Tayl0r by the way are you an alt or a new player?

im not an alt.

i see. the reason i ask is because i initially assumed you were an alt when you replaced in due to the name but the way you have approached some of his has just felt a bit off to me. Your push on me feels like you're being overeager which is something I'd consider more likely to be a towntell for a new player simply because to me it kind of comes across as you legitimately believing you caught on to something and is frustrated when you do not get the support you feel you should get. However I would like to read some of your scum games actually, mind linking me to your latest?

Also what I will say if you're town then you really need to take a step back and properly evaluate me You are clearly tunneling and it seems pretty obvious at this point that you had not ISO'ed me when you initially tried to push on me. You also seem busier trying to look for support rather than trying to engage with me and all of this just seems to suggest you have already made up your mind.
If you're scum then your push is really bad as well for what it is worth since getting me mislynched would most likely result in a trade with the way you approached it and I'd be fine with that trade.

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

redados SR'd saude, didnt he?

but you've made your point, I'll sort redados later as I have experience with them, for now I want to sort you + Grendel first

But he did absolutely nothing with it. He did not try to engage anyone or push which lead to me thinking he is trying to avoid confrontation.

and this is kinda fair, but redados has since engaged with people and done some good stuff. you havent. and you havent really pushed anyone except for the eight posts you pointed out to me, of which half were not doing anything except repeating/not really pressuring but just pointing stuff out with surface-level analysis. we are now 50 pages into the game and you've expressed one scumread based on meta that other people presented, and one scum read based on really weak arguments that you havent done much to follow up on and havent done much with. I cant follow your progessions at all, and i find it hard to believe that your only scumreads are an inactive player based on a sheeped meta-read and a weak "you havent done enough solving" argument that id say isnt even true anymore.

also it doesnt seem like your reads have developed in the past 30 pages, which makes it increasingly likely that you just picked a couple people to scumread and stuck with it, which is what scum sometimes do

Sure and sometimes scum don't do it, are you really trying to push a scum might sometimes do X narrative?
In either case my reads have developed, like bugspray dropped a bit and I got townlean on shelly etc, although yeah the read on Saudade didn't change for obvious reasons. Well actually the one thing that I was a bit skeptical about was the random townreads on him but I need more info to conclude anything from them. I'd say if Mundivore is scum then I do not believe Saudade is with them simply because the townread+vote thing Mundivore did to Saudade is just so weird.
PlusJOYED however still hasn't explained his apparent meta read on Saudade yet even though he has been asked to. As I have mentioned before I have a hard time believing a town would have a townread on Saudade at this point, I'd expect most to not really have a read on him at all.

Also who cares if reads don't develop in the past X amount of pages if people do a lot of non alignment indicative stuff? I don't how to read all the spammy OMGUS meta reads people are throwing at each other.
Anyway as I said reads have developed. First of all regarding you I initially thought you were an alt when you replaced in which was why I initially assumed your push was you trying to test me or something but the way your push evolved and the changes you made me question that, so now that I know that you are not an alt your push on me strikes me a little more as an overeager new player which I can't help but feel is a slight town tell, however I would really like to read your latest scumgame first + I think it is a bad push for you to do as scum simply because the way you did it means you would most likely end up getting traded if you managed to mislynch me.
Redados recent defense of me threw me off a bit as I think that would be a mistake to do if he was scum given my read on him and the pressure on him

Anyway:

@PlusJOYED

could you please elaborate on your meta read on Saudade already?

@shelly

could you elaborate a bit on why you think there has to be a scum between me and Tayl0r?

i really can't elaborate (site rules) ur gonna have to trust me on this

one thing I've heard is that scum tend to focus on making more wallposts and post infrequently based on statistics, that's giving me minor scumpings but it is an unreliable and lazy tell.

[shellyc]

Mundivore, what does OOC mean
I feel like your case is legit, but can you actually 1) quote things and 2) elaborate why people cant have a “finding good eliminations” + “don’t get eliminated myself” mindset. it’s possible imo

[PlusJOYED]

@shelly could you elaborate a bit on why you think there has to be a scum between me and Tayl0r?

I scumread Taylor and I townread you.

If Taylor flips green, I am inclined to trust their read, since this whole thing feels off to me somehow. idrt you’re TvT’ing, the way Taylor hard tunnels you and ignores everything else is very scum indicative and I don’t think it’s scum theatre due to the genuineness of the whole argumentation

okay hm I actually dislike this post as it comes across as you trying to set up chainlynches

what do you think about my earlier read/association with Norway then?

[shellyc]

mundivore do you not have a read on noraa/jester
the conspicuous absence of several players is weird

[shellyc]

joyed you’re not the centre of the universe. I read the norway/joyed intersection as TvS or SvS-ish probably due to the absence of actual SOLVING and instead you two just go “NO U!” at each other

Norway is probably town and jackjoyed is probably scum there

[PlusJOYED]

Don't waste your breath. I'm town.

if ur town and no one else is really scumreading you, why are you afraid?
I do wanna say that me going after Norway is not something I'd do as scum but I doubt that helps. I'm much more of a log/wagonboy as scum.

[PlusJOYED]

hey sorry, I've been feeling off for a while, haven't checked the thread in a couple of days. Catching up now.

You poor soul.

pocketchamp moment

[PlusJOYED]

actually concluding that a town flip from tayl0r would make me scum is pretty bad yes especially if you have a townread on me

Like. cause I don’t think its TvT. and if Taylor flips green id have to reconsider you

I won’t do an immediate 180, just will RECONSIDER. is that clear

hmm, yeah I do agree it's probably TvS.

[NorwegianboyEE]

if ur town and no one else is really scumreading you, why are you afraid?

Why are you calling me afraid, are you shading?