Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[the worst]

I'm gonna fight my urges to weigh in for a bit, billy/Titus need to be sorted and I kinda feel like an IC rn.

[Billy Pilgrim]

- I'm not talking about my emotional reaction. I mean what were the thoughts you had when you read my response?
- why do you trust duck's read on me?

I think the most prominent thought I had was a bit of confusion over why you'd vote duck over me given that you'd been scumreading me for as long as you had. Other than that, I didn't really have many.

And I trust duck's read on you because at the point where it matters, (we're in f3, una flipped scum and duck is dead and town) he would be confirmed to have genuine thoughts about you and he has experience with you.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Also, not gonna lie, I'm pretty sure if you were scum you could have autoed to a win, and instead you've been sorting. Like if youre scum here, your scumgame is terrifying.

[Titus]

Thats pretty much it. We were sorta discussing the next two elims. Im like pretty sure Lillith is town here (also there's confirmed one scum at least in duck and Una, and im pretty convinced duck is town and I dont think anything can move me off of that at the moment. He basically empied his heart into the thread today.) and your slot doesn't have the best associations with Una. So im probably gonna go Una->you. Sorry, you basically just repped into a slot thats PoE'd.

I feel PoE is dumb. It gets to situations like Manatee's mafia where town artificially set a PoE of scum in the VT claimers. Of course my partner and I won on PR claims. Mine most players had to wiki.

So I suggest you take PoE and shove it if you're town.

[Titus]

If the first post is correct, we are in lylo. So I'll need to sort both worlds tmo. I want to have a guess at the team before any more votes come down.

[the worst]

The day will end in 6 days, 23 hours, 50 minutes.

We have like, some time. Nobody's hair is falling out yet. (Except Una's )

[UnaBombaH]

I only get this discouraged and frustrated in the face of injustice.
But then again, this is a game where one has to understand that it's not necessarily "injustice" when scum can make a better case than you can.
When that happens, they deserve the win, and you deserve to be lynched because you were unable / too lazy to defend yourself to the best of your abilities.

[the worst]

I feel like I need to get a cup-and-ball so I can distract myself from spiteposting every time Una pops into the thread roleplaying town

[UnaBombaH]

im pretty convinced duck is town and I dont think anything can move me off of that at the moment. He basically empied his heart into the thread today.

If you really think that Duck is unable to do that as scum, then you are just wrong.
I would be able to do that as scum.
I've done it as scum.

This here <--- this is a game that the worst himself modded.
And he did the same thing here, that I did there.
(Biggest difference obviously being that this game has over 220 pages, while that one was finished within 50 )

[the worst]

you are doing a great job of establishing that you have a broad scumrange. which adds credibility to you pulling off what you have as scum.
you're doing nothing to weaken my scumcase or prove that *i* am scum. :p

[UnaBombaH]

Ducky making fun of me calling him a "mastermind" is him talking about himself, his own meta, in a way that fits his goals this game.
He would've wanted for IV and one of you to vote me sooner, as soon as possible tbh, but once lilith still held onto the brakes and Billy wanted help with "tomorrow", he had to adapt again.

It's not him pouring himself into the thread, it's him playing as scum and reacting accordingly.
But like said, I'm already rather resigned by comments like Billy saying "I don't think anything can move me".
I have better things to do than try and plead for someone who initially had it correct all by themself, and then got told what to think and do.

[UnaBombaH]

you're doing nothing to weaken my scumcase or prove that *i* am scum. :p

Oh I've already given up on that. I'm just venting my frustration at Billy/lilith.
Like, I even tried to answer everything lilith asked of me, and instead of throwing another question at me once I was done answering the first, all that she held onto was a misinterpretation of my answer.
So if she doesn't take my reasoning at face value when I answer to something she has taken from you - at face value - I do not see how I could persuade them to do the right thing.

[the worst]

i'm not laughing at you for calling me a mastermind.

your reasoning is that scum must have some supergenius 37,000iq gameplan and have noticed a significant number of obscure crumbs and must be absolutely snowing this game ERGO i must be scum despite that... not applying to me over anyone else in the list, not addressing my actual skillset as scum, and not actually attempting to address anything that has happened in this game.

[UnaBombaH]

For example - I got so fking pissed at that comment about "what a weird way to say X".
You can call it my use of english then, because I wrote it as town with no agenda, AND would've written it as scum as well WITH NO AGENDA.
You managed to read everything I've said in a negative light, and lilith just chomped it down.

[UnaBombaH]

your reasoning is that scum must have some supergenius 37,000iq gameplan and have noticed a significant number of obscure crumbs

This sort of was the requirement if there was no roleblocker/strongman involved.
Now that I know there is one, I do not care whether you saw my crumbs about being indecisive etc. - you simply knew you had the necessary answers to my ability.

[the worst]

Awww I threw my ball into the air but I couldn't catch it in my cup. Let's try again.

[UnaBombaH]

It's all about hand-eye-coordination.

[the worst]

oh, that's a good tip thanks.

!!!!!
i got it that time!

[UnaBombaH]

It's funny how many sports translate well to others.
I've been playing a ton of Floorball in the past ten years and "Pesäpallo" (finnish national sport, similar concept to how baseball works) when I was a kid at school.
Even if the equipment used to hit the ball and the balls themselves are totally different, I've noticed that I can still hit the ball with a very high % in Pesäpallo, because I've been practicing hitting the ball from the air in floorball.
Similarly to how Ducky is scum here, and should be smacked down midflight..

[lilith2013]

I feel like I have made effort to independently evaluate. continually saying “oh duck is pocketing lilith and she gobbles it up like cupcakes” is not anywhere close to what happened. I feel like I have not gotten explanations that addressed my questions/concerns.

you're probably a rolestopper. ok. how is that significant? how is that town indicative?

my major sticking point here is the interactions on D3 (D2? idr what day it is anymore) that I mentioned in my self-quote, that of all the posts una has made, what I remember most is this: una approached duck with a mindset of “duck is scum and here’s how that makes sense in the context of the game” and like trying to cram in a bunch of reasons that could really have been applied to anyone and weren’t specific to duck whatsoever; instead of approaching the game holistically, like “here’s what happened, how do I fit the pieces together to see who is scummiest”

I agree with duck though, ss was really casing that una was a rolestopper, which like, I think he is. I just don’t really think that’s town-indicative. Two ungated investigatives plus a gated n1 investigative plus an informed townie

plus a protective

??????? I think it’s way more likely that una is a scum!rolestopper and the rolestopper is meant to protect against the investigatives tbh

una, what are your actual REASONS for duck being scum???????

iirc you have yet to show anything that duck has actually

done

and explained why that’s scummy. your case involves only “this is what scum!duck did during the night” which sorry if I don’t take your word for it

Ducky says I'm scum, because my dayplay has been garbage.
What has his dayplay been then, in retrospect?
1 scum lynched, and it was based on S_S guiltying the slot.

Literally the same as you

Other than that, without even checking, I'd argue that Ducky has been on every single mislynch (and probably I have been too),

So have I

he has waffled on his reads all the way until LyLo,

probably more town-indicative than scum-indicative

he voted "recklessly" (for uninformed town, mind you) in LyLo,

also probably slightly more town to me

he has been softing suspicions towards his buddy in IV all throughout the game without actually pushing for their lynch.

and that’s not what you’ve been doing when you posit a duck/iv team?

Whatever he has said about my dayplay, could be said about his play in this game too.

imo the major difference is how you tried to shove a scumread on him and forced all the night kills to fit the read

what is this entire argument even

I have a feeling that too much weight is put on the fact that A) he has claimed VT instead of a PR (which doesn't make him town, it just means that he could be the scum!RB) B) he is more charismatic and likeable than I am.

I don’t care about either of those things and I don’t feel like these weigh in at all

I’d say your play on D5 has been largely “no YOU’re scum” “no YOUR case is stupid.” I don’t see any merit in that kind of argument.

[lilith2013]

You decided to fixate on one of my posts where I questioned your reaction to SS and you’ve basically ignored anything else I’ve said in favor of ranting about how unfair it is that I read and agreed with a case.

[lilith2013]

Can you point to one time in this game where you pushed duck, questioned him on his actions and/or reads, or tried to garner votes on him to build a wagon?

Rereading your ISO doesn't show me anything except "duck should be more tryhard so I can read him," "duck should take a stance on me so I can read him," you don't seem to be proactive whatsoever about sorting, pushing, engaging a scumread that you've supposedly had since D1. Can you explain why that is?

[UnaBombaH]

Because I had to start somewhere, and the one thing I started with was a simple enough thing to explain, and one of the more obvious forced "scumtells" Ducky brought forward.
And even after I explained that to you, your final retort to that was quoting Duckster who called it a "wild way to say" something.
If you can't see how discouraging that can be, well then..?

[UnaBombaH]

Can you point to one time in this game where you pushed duck, questioned him on his actions and/or reads, or tried to garner votes on him to build a wagon?

I immediately remembered an instance:

Wait, Froppy is the waterD/Sirius -slot?
Who's the leading advocate for that lynch this day and time?

Ducky came in voting it.

OK.
VOTE: the worst - time to solve this shit today instead of me resorting to paranoia every now and then.

bro you're meant to be voting scum or pretending to vote scum stopppp

This was me asking who was advocating to lynching that slot at that time (think it was D3).
My "Miss Marple"-logic suggests that in games that have a "policy-lynchable" slot like Sirius/Froppy/WaterD/whoever, it's often scum who keep coming back to the honey pot, but don't actually want the lynch to necessarily ever go all the way through.
I really, really wanted it D1, but people insisted on sidetracking it and we know the results of it.
The whole trajectory of this game was formed by those claims from MWNN and Nep as early as D1.

And after losing a buddy D2, I felt like scum would likely start D3 with an easy push on the Sirius-slot, before actually moving somewhere else.

[lilith2013]

My stance on policy executions is kinda confused. I'm against them in principle, because they obviate the need to actually form reads, but I will often support them in practice if they get traction because my D1 philosophy is to execute someone I don't townread, and I probably won't be townreading someone if they are policy-worthy.

So why didn't you join the sirius wagon? You weren't tring him, and it had traction at one point.

This is a smart pickup.

doesn't say anything about whether you think billy is town

I still think D1 would've been way better for us, had we actually just lynched that slot.
It still hasn't done anything, and I have a feeling that the rest of the replacements would've gone a different route as well.

doesn't say anything about whether you think billy is town

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

still doesn't say anything about whether you think billy is town. what does this sentence say? you're subtly supporting billy pushing SS without outright saying you think SS is scummy. you're implying that SS is likely to be scum.