Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 1.11

PookyTheMagicalBear

(3): OutWorldER, Blitzo, Kasumeat

Panzerjager

(2): Gamma Emerald, Not_Mafia

Noraa

(2): Thestatusquo, duppin

MURDERCAT

(2): Panzerjager, PookyTheMagicalBear

Gamma Emerald

(1): Noraa

Kasumeat

(1): The Bulge

Not voting

(2): UneducatedGuesser, MURDERCAT

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to yeet someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-10-12 14:30:00)

[MURDERCAT]

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

Murder sheeps Shea's(may I call u that?) opinions a shit ton. Zero evidence to back up reads ... in general. Also buddies shea a bit too. I'm not liking the look of it rn so I SR Murder.

Post 64 - I really like the way OutWorldER thinks. Very logic based and overall beneficial to town if town but very scary if scum. He can go into early town book for now tho. I don't agree completely with his views bc I think we don't have enough to be saying Blitzo is hard to read but the way of thinking is towny imo.

Pooky is hard to read. idk. null here as well as I understand this is their normal play style.
I still dk what BoP is soooo can I get some SE help around here in unfamiliar territory?

Gamma got into a bit of hot water but meh seems like typical gamma play here. I don't see anything funky so gammas a null for now.

Bulge putting pressure on Murder I approve of. Also Bulge gets +Noraa biased points bc they modded the first game that I won on site. Into my town book u go.

Post 121 - no pooky I won't be claiming 3p this game lmao.

Kazu's entrance are +++townpoints. reads very town imo.

Not mafia and Pooky are in the same "Noraa isn't capable of reading" category

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

Guesser's entrance could be townie in pointing out the absence of spam from me or scum setting me up to be limbait. Imma go with the first option for now.

Shea is .... meh null.

I don't see this read list coming from scum. It's honestly so empty it makes no sense in some places, e.g. duppin. This isn't a tstbs argument, I am saying that scum here should be pushing someone and probably at least town leaning you. But ok you want evidence of town, not not scum so I will keep reading

[Thestatusquo]

It's interesting that you picked something that I found particularly suspicious about noraa. The fact that she unvotes you when nothing really has changed by saying "others have been scummier" and then doesn't vote anyone or explain who those others are and what they've done seems like the exact opposite of a town mindset to me. Especially since she's now still claiming that she agrees with the SR on you without managing to vote it.

[Thestatusquo]

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

Murder sheeps Shea's(may I call u that?) opinions a shit ton. Zero evidence to back up reads ... in general. Also buddies shea a bit too. I'm not liking the look of it rn so I SR Murder.

Post 64 - I really like the way OutWorldER thinks. Very logic based and overall beneficial to town if town but very scary if scum. He can go into early town book for now tho. I don't agree completely with his views bc I think we don't have enough to be saying Blitzo is hard to read but the way of thinking is towny imo.

Pooky is hard to read. idk. null here as well as I understand this is their normal play style.
I still dk what BoP is soooo can I get some SE help around here in unfamiliar territory?

Gamma got into a bit of hot water but meh seems like typical gamma play here. I don't see anything funky so gammas a null for now.

Bulge putting pressure on Murder I approve of. Also Bulge gets +Noraa biased points bc they modded the first game that I won on site. Into my town book u go.

Post 121 - no pooky I won't be claiming 3p this game lmao.

Kazu's entrance are +++townpoints. reads very town imo.

Not mafia and Pooky are in the same "Noraa isn't capable of reading" category

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

Guesser's entrance could be townie in pointing out the absence of spam from me or scum setting me up to be limbait. Imma go with the first option for now.

Shea is .... meh null.

I don't see this read list coming from scum. It's honestly so empty it makes no sense in some places, e.g. duppin. This isn't a tstbs argument, I am saying that scum here should be pushing someone and probably at least town leaning you. But ok you want evidence of town, not not scum so I will keep reading

Wait posting fluff and fence sitting are somehow "not scum" in your book? I don't believe that.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean, even aside from the fact that the two things you just posted are a red screaming association tell, I think neither of them looks particularly townie for noraa. In fact if given them in a vacuum I'd probably guess both posts came from scum.

[MURDERCAT]

There are several questions I have for 205.

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

You see Blitzo as overly defensive (which I agree with) but then go on to null them. Can you elaborate?

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

What on earth is this logic? "They seem towny, so I'm going to scumlean them"????????

Shea is .... meh null.

Can you go further into detail on your thoughts on TSQ?

I may end up switching votes here.

Overly defensive can be a scum or town tell depending on the person or it could be absolutely nothing. I don't have a strong read on Blitz so they are going in null for now until I see something that changes that.

The logic is that duppin normally doesn't strike me as that towny but here he's seeming so towny I'm worried he's faking it.

I can't read Shea aorn. His play style is one of those that I generally struggle to read just like Pooky and Not mafia. These take me a lot of time to get opinions on but I guarantee I'll probably be having at least leans before day 1 ends unless we end up with a flash wagon which I don't recommend.

I think we should be looking closely at that vote ^

its very out of the blue. I expressed concerns with duppins play being not his normal here and this random vote is just ... not rubbing me the right way. I think we might actually have a scum!duppin here.

Also, I know I still need to read up on Noraa (plan on doing that tonight), but based on wagon dynamics alone it feels like Noraa is the town counterwagon to Pooky scum (which is why I was suspicious of Duppin vote)

after the read up, I'm interested in hearing ur updated read. I am not the counterwagon but I can easily become one if people keep sheeping votes on me.

There's intelligent fence sitting which is something I think scum does. That's .. not what Noraa is doing.

But look you seem a lot more confident than me, I don't really want to flip Panzer after those last couple of posts. So let's just vote Noraa and at least get her to do some scum hunting? Because I agree that I don't see a lot of it, the issue is just that I didn't feel like I saw a lot of it in her meta.

[MURDERCAT]

It's interesting that you picked something that I found particularly suspicious about noraa. The fact that she unvotes you when nothing really has changed by saying "others have been scummier" and then doesn't vote anyone or explain who those others are and what they've done seems like the exact opposite of a town mindset to me. Especially since she's now still claiming that she agrees with the SR on you without managing to vote it.

We have a different perspective on this because I know I'm town so I don't blame you. But I think what I would like you to ask yourself is if I really am town do you think this makes sense from my perspective?

[Thestatusquo]

no

[MURDERCAT]

no

fair enough

I do still think the Noraa wagon is town led which is why I'm willing to vote there for the time being.

[MURDERCAT]

Honestly, I'd have to do a deep dive to reread you because I think the two things have become very linked for me. There were and are independent reasons why I was scum reading you (a couple of examples being the willingness to proxy your vote, the pooky push, the lack of pushing your reads with the conviction I would expect from you as town, the shallowness of your reads re: pooky and panzer, the way you did surface level rereads of everyone but somehow didn't manage to come to any concrete conclusions, etc.)

But I'd have to go back and reevaluate all of that as well if noraa flipped town, because its unclear to me how much of it is invading my thought processes for other things. That's part of why I want noraa to go first.

I still don't love the bulge's contribution to this game as well, and I'd probably start digging there if noraa flipped green and on reread I decided you werent that scummy after all, but I don't love dealing too much in hypotheticals.

I don't really have a response for this other than to say this is useful thanks. If Noraa or I is the lim today so be it, I just hope you will reconsider the read on the other one if I flip or if Noraa flips green.

And I agree about Bulge's disappearance.

[Gamma Emerald]

You kinda glossed over this string of posts from Noraa, MCat, so what do you make of it? My takeaway is that Noraa tried to appear as thoughtful and considerate town, but wasn't ready to get grilled on the level she was and thus floundered in response to the pressure.

I went back and read in context. I agree with Shea's read on these posts, at least on some level (and I want to point out again that we were basically saying the same thing at the time).

Others have been scummier as of late so for now
UNVOTE: Murder

Then why...not..........vote them?

Like honestly I don't understand this post on a fundamental level. If you're trying to yeet the scum and you say your reason to unvote someone is that others have been scummier why do you not vote anyone? "I want to yeet people more than you so unvote don't vote any of those people." is just nonsensical. It looks like noraa is trying to get off a vote that wasn't picking up steam and is waiting to see who does pick up steam in order to place that vote.

I might be reading too much into this but I actually think I hate it more than almost anything else thats happened in the game.

I think Noraa's interaction with the unvote depends a lot on how you view me. If you think I'm scum then Noraa might be scum finding a reason to jump off me, which I think is what Shea is picking up on. But from my perspective it looks like Noraa is actually not sure who to vote. Scum Noraa has no reason to jump off of me there, if there was another wagon picking up steam she would have just waited and voted directly. So what Shea interprets as an unvote and a wait and see approach looks to me like a townie who is actually waiting to gather more info about Outworld. And to be clear, it still makes no sense to me, but from my perspective I don't see scum motivation for doing it.

My issue is that I think Noraa is issuing a lot of double talk. On the one hand she says she isn't confident about any reads, but on the other you havew her explicitly naming names that stand out as suspicious to her and she's doing nothing with it. The common verbiage of a VT role PM says that their weapons are "their voice and their vote". I'd expect Noraa to try to use here vote as a weapon to sort people, but she is not, she just seems to be acting in a way she thinks looks towny.
I could very well see this being countered by meta, though, so I'm open to anyone who wants to present the evidence of how I'm wrong here, though if Noraa herself does it I'm more inclined to fact check.
In addition, I don't really think we should be eliminating Noraa at all this day phase. My feelings on her are the same but what that means could change imo

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh I think I now also want Panzer to be voted out just because even if he's town he's very likely going to be hard to work with. MCat, whilst one of my suspicions, is at least clearly willing to commiserate and contribute to the overall discussion. Panzer is not, and unlike someone like NM there's very little chance he gets replaced for activity.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi NM we are voting panzer because he is not an active contributor

How dare he

VOTE: Panzer

why do I feel like NM being ironic makes him more likely town :////

[Gamma Emerald]

lmao good job sheeping all of shea's reads on me

you can't seriously believe this shit
I wish there was an emoji that better expressed sighing

[Gamma Emerald]

all everyone here can say about me is that my playstyle sucks ass.

aw HELL no. How is it the second I waffle on you, you go back to scumming it up?
Everything I've seen as potential playstyle points I have avoided pushing. There is no way in Hell, Heaven, or on Earth that you can construe my points against you as pushing playstyle.

[Noraa]

Noraa. You have 5 posts to make a vote and state why, or i'm voting you. the explanation doesn't have to be more than 1 or 2 sentences.

Dont threaten me. I will vote when I want to.

It's interesting that you picked something that I found particularly suspicious about noraa. The fact that she unvotes you when nothing really has changed by saying "others have been scummier" and then doesn't vote anyone or explain who those others are and what they've done seems like the exact opposite of a town mindset to me. Especially since she's now still claiming that she agrees with the SR on you without managing to vote it.

Remind me why not voting is suspicious? A persons not allowed to be indecisive in a game of mafia?

Spoiler:

There are several questions I have for 205.

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

You see Blitzo as overly defensive (which I agree with) but then go on to null them. Can you elaborate?

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

What on earth is this logic? "They seem towny, so I'm going to scumlean them"????????

Shea is .... meh null.

Can you go further into detail on your thoughts on TSQ?

I may end up switching votes here.

Overly defensive can be a scum or town tell depending on the person or it could be absolutely nothing. I don't have a strong read on Blitz so they are going in null for now until I see something that changes that.

The logic is that duppin normally doesn't strike me as that towny but here he's seeming so towny I'm worried he's faking it.

I can't read Shea aorn. His play style is one of those that I generally struggle to read just like Pooky and Not mafia. These take me a lot of time to get opinions on but I guarantee I'll probably be having at least leans before day 1 ends unless we end up with a flash wagon which I don't recommend.

I think we should be looking closely at that vote ^

its very out of the blue. I expressed concerns with duppins play being not his normal here and this random vote is just ... not rubbing me the right way. I think we might actually have a scum!duppin here.

Also, I know I still need to read up on Noraa (plan on doing that tonight), but based on wagon dynamics alone it feels like Noraa is the town counterwagon to Pooky scum (which is why I was suspicious of Duppin vote)

after the read up, I'm interested in hearing ur updated read. I am not the counterwagon but I can easily become one if people keep sheeping votes on me.

There's intelligent fence sitting which is something I think scum does. That's .. not what Noraa is doing.

But look you seem a lot more confident than me, I don't really want to flip Panzer after those last couple of posts. So let's just vote Noraa and at least get her to do some scum hunting? Because I agree that I don't see a lot of it, the issue is just that I didn't feel like I saw a lot of it in her meta.

What in the fuck is up with this buddying?

no

fair enough

I do still think the Noraa wagon is town led which is why I'm willing to vote there for the time being.

Literally. Seriously. What kind of a damn reason is this? tHiS wAgOn iS tOwN lEaD sO i'Ll hOp oN tO gEt tOwNcRed.

all everyone here can say about me is that my playstyle sucks ass.

aw HELL no. How is it the second I waffle on you, you go back to scumming it up?
Everything I've seen as potential playstyle points I have avoided pushing. There is no way in Hell, Heaven, or on Earth that you can construe my points against you as pushing playstyle.

all ur points are sheeped anyways. I'll hear stuff from people that actually had original reads on me but I dont think u can just bc all ur reads on me r sheeped and u dont even deny that

[Noraa]

The spoiler is a huge reason for my retunneling

VOTE: Murder

DIE SCUM

[Thestatusquo]

It's interesting that you picked something that I found particularly suspicious about noraa. The fact that she unvotes you when nothing really has changed by saying "others have been scummier" and then doesn't vote anyone or explain who those others are and what they've done seems like the exact opposite of a town mindset to me. Especially since she's now still claiming that she agrees with the SR on you without managing to vote it.

Remind me why not voting is suspicious? A persons not allowed to be indecisive in a game of mafia?

Being indecisive is not at all what I'm accusing you of. And its funny, because you literally attacked me for being suspicious of and voting for several different people. You know, things townies do. That's how indecisiveness manifests. Not "Other people are scummy and even though nothing has changed with this person I'm voting I'm going to unvote and vote no one." that's not indecisiveness, thats you coming off your distance vote when it seemed like the wagon might pick up steam.

[Noraa]

Uh the wagon wasn't even picking up steam. I left bc I started feeling like I was tunneling too much and I tend to tunnel in the wrong places.

Murders whole, "imma side with shea to get town cred" has been throwing me off tho and is not protown at all hence my vote has gone back.

[Noraa]

I dont have to park my vote if I dont wanna. I still fail to see why thats a problem

[Thestatusquo]

k

[Noraa]

Ur SR on me is still weak no matter how u try to justify it and I remember you saying you were gonna do some meta diving. U should do that.

[Gamma Emerald]

fuck patience, this dies NOW!!!!!
VOTE: NORAA
Congratulations, you're the first one to get me charged about a mafia game since I came back.

[Thestatusquo]

Ur SR on me is still weak no matter how u try to justify it and I remember you saying you were gonna do some meta diving. U should do that.

I tried, you have 1000s of posts before I even start getting to completed games. I'll be happy to read games if you want to link them.

[Noraa]

U have hung onto the same reason and used it to justify a SR while not caring what anyone else does. This tunneling isnt beneficial to town and will only obstruct town from seeing anything until I die.