Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[morph the cat]

I mean, you're not wrong, but we're kind of putting the entirety of plusjoyed's opinions about what drives and doesnt drive us in a box that we aren't really touching.

[April Ludgate]

I mean, you're not wrong, but we're kind of putting the entirety of plusjoyed's opinions about what drives and doesnt drive us in a box that we aren't really touching.

Im still voting Plus, so I don’t mind that.

[PlusJOYED]

yall deserve infinite love regardless
<3

[Remilia Scarlet]

To be entirely honest part of me is hoping I get confirmed overnight by April.

Where do yoI guys want to vote? Joyed?

Yep.

why am i scum again morph?

A re-read of day one, I see a lot of associatives between you and MariaBoy. I also found the way you handled remelia and 420/prism to be awkward upon re-read. I was giving you a lot of slack but it's clear that was in error.

I'm not giving anything else away here, lest i get reverse engineered.

I'm trying to explore this in a way that is fact-finding and not accusatory:

I take an issue with a good portion of this being due to associations with an unflipped person
I can guess the interactions between me and plus on D1; this was a lot of what I pointed to earlier but you found it utterly un-compelling at the time
What's the issue w/ the interaction w/ the 420 slot because I find that to be honestly the most reasonable position plus has taken all game
I'm also just unsure why you think 420's just not an option for you other than the strength of the claim in and of itself. Any interactions w/ plus and 420 (or plus and me, really) are also unflipped

[Remilia Scarlet]

We're not voting muffin today.

can agree here not going anywhere near a muffin wagon

[Remilia Scarlet]

like the fact that you really want to indict partners of maid cafe for being partners of maid cafe right now seems fucking crazy to me considering they possible come in here and confirm tomorrow

which basically removes any chance of this argument being made later

[Remilia Scarlet]

I will likely defend 420 incredibly hard today. I anything, i think they’re a d3 flip.

I know capriciousness is your defining characteristic but why

[Remilia Scarlet]

Rejoice, for VOTE: PlusJoyed

Rejoice, for bork gets his wish.

this really just feels like it was for my benefit and in lieu of this you could've explained why you were changing your tune

[Remilia Scarlet]

UNVOTE:

[Remilia Scarlet]

REJOICE FOR ALSO FUCKING WISH I COULD VOTE MARIA AGAIN

need transparency here now like right this second

[morph the cat]

To be entirely honest part of me is hoping I get confirmed overnight by April.

Where do yoI guys want to vote? Joyed?

Yep.

why am i scum again morph?

A re-read of day one, I see a lot of associatives between you and MariaBoy. I also found the way you handled remelia and 420/prism to be awkward upon re-read. I was giving you a lot of slack but it's clear that was in error.

I'm not giving anything else away here, lest i get reverse engineered.

I'm trying to explore this in a way that is fact-finding and not accusatory:

I take an issue with a good portion of this being due to associations with an unflipped person
I can guess the interactions between me and plus on D1; this was a lot of what I pointed to earlier

but you found it utterly un-compelling at the time

What's the issue w/ the interaction w/ the 420 slot because I find that to be honestly the most reasonable position plus has taken all game
I'm also just unsure why you think 420's just not an option for you other than the strength of the claim in and of itself. Any interactions w/ plus and 420 (or plus and me, really) are also unflipped

I want to let Cabd talk about our PlusJoyed read. But I do want to point back to this convo in one of our day 1 posts in reference to the bolded above.

Plusjoy's stances aren't super developed or nuanced. And his current style is coming out more and more as the game progresses. He's being townread by different cohorts in the game, not just single players but these townblocs that are swimming around in the thread. That's an enviable position for a scum player, though possibly scary to a new-ish on, and yet he's pushing it away in terms of cooperating with townreads. I feel like that comes from a town place in a newer player playing what's got to be a complicated game on a social level. It's complicated to me, and I revel in the player list for the most part.

I didn't really expect anyone to get the ST stuff because it's so buried in how notsci and I have interacted over a number of games in the becoming-distant past. What bothered me is not the kind of data that I think you use as data in games. I know zmuffin doesn't. The read has improved dramatically, based on notsci's posting since then. It will be interesting to see where our meta-trajectories go from this game onward.

what does any of this have to do w/ how I'm interacting w/ plusjoyed?

Your irritability* in interacting with him is to the point of dismissiveness at times.

This next is probably an issue entirely inside our own heads: we felt like you were arguing against our read with us a little strongly. But, objectively you should be since you're justifying your read to us when we're pushing them up pretty high in our reads list. (You were mostly discussing with Cabd). Your points were strong enough that our read did fade some. And then we started questioning ourselves if the read-fade was justified or if we're taking your points on board too much.

When both town, we've agreed on stuff more than we've disagreed, even though agreements don't always come by the same path. Not like 100% synch in games but decently well aligned.

With this much variance, one of us is obviously wrong. It's not like town vs null or nullscum vs nulltown.

We've probably had disagreements on things I held strongly in the past, and I'm just remembering all the times we didn't.

This concern is a little more on Cabd's plate than mine, because he's taken the lead in interacting with PlusJoyed. If I'm not explaining it well enough, I'll let him take it from here. (assuming he's still here).

* one of these days I want to figure out if what I interpret that way is actual irritability or is something else.

Even though at the time I didn't want you to have a huge influence our plusjoyed read, your arguments did have an effect and our read of plusjoyed was fading.

With 420, part of it is the strength of the claim. But part of it is based on his posts during and after claiming. They feel town to me. They just do. And I never full-out scumread the slot at any point in this game. :/

The interactions are unflipped, but we do have flips and we have more data about other players. All of that factors into our reads, even if we aren't articulating them well enough. For me, the whole game is spinning around my strong to middling townreads. And those reads circumscribe where I'm willing to scumhunt today.

Cabd will be around to post in a bit. I think he's having dinner right now.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I am really glad this post is this post and not a different post.

[morph the cat]

REJOICE FOR ALSO FUCKING WISH I COULD VOTE MARIA AGAIN

need transparency here now like right this second

We still scumread them despite their claim and I'm not sure what more you want. If they prove their claim is true, we'll reevaluate.

[Remilia Scarlet]

VOTE: plusjoyed

[Remilia Scarlet]

this could've gotten weird and you made it not weird and i think that's all i really wanted

[April Ludgate]

I just think that he’s town based on the role itself making sense in this setup.

He obviously doctored me as well because they knew about my claim yesterday, and I think that has really strong synergy in the role.

I also think that this game is insanely simple, almost mountainous with all the VT claims, but a couple weird roles.

I think scum just claimed VT.

I would say town probably has at least 3 of the 4 PR claims as town, possibly 4 of 4.

And with a possible 5th silencing PR on the scum team.

I think it’s more than likely the VT claims are just scum, and scum PR claimed VT.

Probably that silence role + one other role + goon

Honestly, even without another role, and just a second goon, I’d say balance wise that still works because scum team is all on day play an double silencing by way of killing or silence.

And I act as a Cop in the setup, limited to 1 guilty, which is insane synergy with 420’s role if and only if he protects me, and I claimed Day 1 which put us in a solid Doc the Cop situation, but I die if I hit scum.

[Remilia Scarlet]

i guess we'll find out

[April Ludgate]

He also came into the game in a way i think it made sense for a doctor to do.

He town read the investigative claim.

Like it’s sucks if I’m wrong, but I have my reasoning, my guts telling me too, I’m not confident, but there’s something there that makes me wanna defend them.

[Remilia Scarlet]

He town read the investigative claim.

i mean if you're town and he's scum of course he did

[April Ludgate]

I’m gonna target Bell if Plus is town.

I’m gonna target Zmuffin if Plus is scum.

[420 Blaze It]

VOTE: Plus

honestly could flip scum for his continuation tunnel on me being the easiest stance or thing to pursue in the game. also i'm weirdly afraid that people think i'm scum eith him if he doesn't dlip scum so lest not have any of that

[420 Blaze It]

*does

[420 Blaze It]

no wait that's a dumb read just ignore me

IMAGINATION

[420 Blaze It]

With 420, part of it is the strength of the claim. But part of it is based on his posts during and after claiming. They feel town to me. They just do. And I never full-out scumread the slot at any point in this game. :/

woah

[420 Blaze It]

did someone compile all of the massclaims into one chunky post? would be very helpful to see