Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 2.3

Panzerjager

(2): Gamma Emerald, Blitzo

Gamma Emerald

(2): Kasumeat, UneducatedGuesser

Noraa

(2): OutWorldER, The Bulge

OutWorldER

(1): Thestatusquo

Thestatusquo

(1): Noraa

Not voting

(3): Panzerjager, Not_Mafia, PookyTheMagicalBear

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to yeet someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-10-23 22:50:00)

[OutWorldER]

This game has ground to a halt and I'm not sure what that signifies.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I’d noticed too but I’m too busy developing heavy weapons to really do anything about it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Gamma/Outworld who do you two want to yeet today?

[Gamma Emerald]

I won’t say who I most want to yeet yet but it ain’t Panzer.
UNVOTE:

Envision this as me tossing my pistol aside in preparation to handle the ion cannon I’m working on.

[Gamma Emerald]

Limit Break, go! Behold, the power of Oblivion!



Okay so I just had a game against scum Noraa that just finished, and I’ve been feeling like her play between this game and that one just finished is rather similar. I get the feeling duppin had the same thought process, but obviously he couldn’t fully express it until the game ended. That’s why I think the kill heavily implicates Noraa, as she probably wanted him dead before the other game ended. It’s possible I killed duppin in an attempt to frame Noraa off of that, but I think that would be a very odd play to make, because Shea was definitely a stronger proponent against her which would have made it easier to press Noraa for, plus I wouldn't have needed to wait for another game to finish in order to push it at full force.

Now, since duppin is dead now, I’m going to present what I thought he saw, and then I’ll follow it up with the things I’m pretty sure I’m the only one who noticed. I think what he’d caught onto was Noraa’s waffling on her reads. In Day 4 of MafiaSunny in particular, Noraa fencesat hard on brighteningskies, who was being miselimmed for not making sense in the setup and failing to protect the tracker that died the night prior. That is comparable to both how she’s not really honed in on her scumreads at all this game, and how she interacted with MCat, going back and forth on him pretty rapidly.

Now onto what I personally found the most compelling about Noraa’s play similarities: her interactions with me. There are two parts here, that appeared in a different order each game but were noticed in both.

I love how you cherry pick out one singular post from gamma and the reason for an SR is .... unhelpfulness of the post? Yeah that's just stupid. Have you seen basically any of the playerlist actually post something useful? cuz I sure haven't seen much. Gamma was just telling us how to read Pooky who is generally hard to read due to play style. dont attack that. its not a valid argument and there's plenty of other posts to pick on if that's all u got. Kazu if ur town, untunnel asap.

I think you’re defense of me is a little off. Saying “don’t attack that” about my Pooky meta summary is a bit of a bridge too far. I didn’t really present a personal opinion on what I actually thought of Pooky there, and if I’d been consistently lacking in opinions then it would have made sense to attack it. I just think you’re expressing an absolute that shouldn’t be adhered to. Could be mistaken though.

No. What Kazu attacked was stupid. There was no point in the attack and it didn't help anyone. Pivoting on me here and trying to use me to seem more towny is a terrible move. Also what's with this fencesitty stuff followed by a vote?
Whoever said Gamma was scum, I'm starting to agree
VOTE: Gamma

This is one of two things I saw in common between Noraa’s games here and in MafiaSunny. I had made a post that wasn’t really attacking her, but she jumped on me as if I’d disrespected her grandma. I was merely saying “phrase what you said differently”. Compare that to this post:

Shit went down while I was eating dinner eh? I have some other stuff to do and might post some stuff on this later today. AGar nice limpool. Newbies are always good lynchbait as far as I'm concerned ^^

(I'm talking about myself in case someone out there didn't understand)

SIGH

I don’t see this as particularly suspicious but I know someone will and I can’t exactly fault them for that

"I know someone will"
but then ur the only one that talks about it.
Alright inform me of why scum!Noraa would choose to say this
oh btw that theory is really a stretch and proposing theories like that isn't that helpful in moving the game forward bc generally they're wrong

Again, I

explicitly

said I didn't think that post was entirely scummy, but she responded super negatively. I rightly called it out as scummy initially there, and seeing as I called the thing like it here scummy too, I'm thinking the pattern exists despite only having 2 instances.
In addition, though I didn't fetch it, her continuation of this conversation in the other game took things even further into "reacting very poorly to non-pressure" territory, even with the fact that I had voted her after this post iirc.

The other part of the similarities between the game in how she’s interacted with me between games is her attempts to establish a familiarity I don’t think really existed. There’s a lot more I remember in this game versus in the other, but there’s at least some that I found.

Gamma got into a bit of hot water but meh seems like typical gamma play here. I don't see anything funky so gammas a null for now.

Gamma solve me

... all I see is normal gamma play.

Noraa is expressing this idea that we are well-acquainted with each other to where we

should

be able to read each other, but that’s not the case. Before I go on, here’s the one post I fetched where Noraa does it in MafiaSunny; there could be more, but I picked it out in the middle of bowling so I was more interested in getting examples for it (and the other point which I got the example for at the same time) quickly over getting comprehensive data. Anyway, behold:

Let's assume it's not you or skies, who then?

Currently my only locktowns are Ythan and you. Everyone else is possible imo. Duppin has gotten real inactive lately which is making me sus there. Gamma is just being gamma and while I'm not convinced gamma is town, I'm not convinced they're scum either. Besides these two, I dont really think there's any other people that we could or more importantly, should put into the limpool.

Despite our only finished meta being a marathon, she acts like we’re war buddies or something. Even if you count any ongoing games, I don’t think we had enough at that time for that sense to have been developed. Honestly I want to say she got it from a scumbuddy’s description of me in a scum PT, but that’s not exactly a point against her here,

unless

neither of her buddies in MafiaSunny said anything to give that picture (which I imagine is the case based on when she started saying things like that).
Now, these thing happened in different orders between games if you noticed the post numbers. I don’t know if that means anything, but note how her read on me took a HARD dip after I rebuked her, despite

insisting

my play so far had been completely regular. That doesn’t really line up

at all

with her previous inability to press her scumreads. Plus, she leans into others’ reads on me in order to justify her vote. This ties into the middle quote from this game about her buddying of me (her asking me to solve her). She is passing the buck on being responsible for reads, either by making her vote on me because of other people, or asking someone else to defend her rather than doing it herself.

Now, this isn't saying I'm 100% certain Noraa is scum, but I'm damn confident in it at this point.
VOTE: Noraa
She's been scummy on her own posting in this game, scummy by how she's played similar to her just-completed scumgame, and the kill implicates her in a way that uniquely benefits her in a way that does not qualify for any other player. This slot needs to be resolved today, by vote or some other factor.

[The Bulge]

Shea was definitely a stronger proponent against her which would have made it easier to press Noraa for

the [duppin] kill implicates [Noraa] in a way that uniquely benefits her in a way that does not qualify for any other player.

how can these statements both be true?

Now, this isn't saying I'm 100% certain Noraa is scum, but I'm damn confident in it at this point.

This slot needs to be resolved today, by vote or some other factor.

why are you pussyfooting around this vote after making an entire "heavy weapon"-grade post about it?

[Thestatusquo]

Shea was definitely a stronger proponent against her which would have made it easier to press Noraa for

the [duppin] kill implicates [Noraa] in a way that uniquely benefits her in a way that does not qualify for any other player.

how can these statements both be true?

Now, this isn't saying I'm 100% certain Noraa is scum, but I'm damn confident in it at this point.

This slot needs to be resolved today, by vote or some other factor.

why are you pussyfooting around this vote after making an entire "heavy weapon"-grade post about it?

I think he made it fairly clear that the answer to his first question is he thought duppin had meta analysis of noraa he couldn't say yet because the game was still ongoing.

I'm surprised you missed that because it was basically the whole point of the post.

[Thestatusquo]

Like actually those two things being your only take away from that post is kind of staggering.

[The Bulge]

I don't press on every thing I take away from a post.

but yea I wasn't thinking of the ~forbidden meta~ point when I got down to that last part but that is actually pretty notable.

[Gamma Emerald]

the ongoing game meta was only a reason that directly implicated Noraa. And Duppin had pressed Noraa for less time than Shea.

How the hell am I pussyfooting, I'm just stating that I am still not truly certain. Like, the level of swagger I was showing warranted that comment, I didn't want people thinking it was a done deal. You're not really looking good either, your MCat vote was probably the

absolute

worst.

On another note, based on post-game conversation from MafiaSunny OutWorld's comment about a compromise kill sounds way worse. Noraa threw a fit in the MafiaSunny scum PT that led to Reck running the n2 kill, which got Reck tracker-guiltied.

[PJ.]

This game has ground to a halt and I'm not sure what that signifies.

Shea got busy with work. It's like...precisely why I think he's town and why I think it's strange he's alive. If I were scum I'd of yeeted him, which is why I dont like the logic he used, paraphrased as; duppin is a better kill because it helps noraa lose heat while not taking him out and being obv about it. I just think shea is worth more to the town then Nora is to scum in the hypothetical that both of those alignments are correct, and I think that the premise that one kill could shake the pressure off nora seems incorrect. I think I've decided it's best to yeet nora here and work from there (also we need to get ahead on the count so we can yeet nm if there is no vig)

For the record, my biggest reads aside from nora are probably Gamma and outworld. I dont want to give too much more after that for information hiding purposes.

VOTE: nora

[PJ.]

At some point though...I firmly believe that if shea is alive, he's just mafia.

[PJ.]

Also, uh...I find this Gamma post to be an incredibly performative bus.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Gamma

[Noraa]

my play here and mafiasunny are so fucking different you don't even know. Literally I was a damn try hard there that pocketed everyone like I was gonna die if I didnt. My play here has been bullshit which I understand gamma, you thought my play was bullshit in mafiasunny but the only reason for that is that you were conftown so you knew I was confscum bc of ur role pm. I ultimately won that round because people believed I was more towny than you. That in itself says something. You cannot just say my play there was a hot mess and my play here is a hot mess so I am scum here bc the ONLY reason you thought my play that game was a hot mess was bc I threw lots of shade at you and you knew I was confscum.

[Noraa]

My play that game was not a hot mess otherwise I wouldn't have won. I won bc they found me MORE towny than you in limlo. That means my play was not indeed a hot mess. I had some trouble distancing with my partners which got me in some hot water early on in that game. I have distanced from no one here. I am getting SRed here for not solving.

[Noraa]

But in that scum game I literally won for being the only person there that was actively "trying to solve"

[Noraa]

Do you not see a problem in your argument?

[Noraa]

And also I killed duppin because I was afraid he would connect the dots. This is so far fetched I don't even know what to say. You really think my whole two scum buddies would be like oh yes yes you are clearly the most important scum out of us three so we're going to kill off everyone that might sus u? no wtf. today would be bus day.

[Noraa]

*connect the dots?

[Gamma Emerald]

@MOD Blitzo needs a prod

[Gamma Emerald]

Responding to things that have happened since I've been gone part 1:

That read by Panzer on shea of "if he's alive towards endgame he's mafia" looks really freaking gross given that's how he was figured out in TM2018 White Flag, but iirc it was only really put out as a thing around when he got caught. It looks more like setting up a miselim than a genuine thought.
NM is continuing to be a letdown.

[Gamma Emerald]

part 2 will come when I resolve something kinda-game related.

[Umlaut]

Blitzo was prodded.