Newbie 2034 | Space II | Over

[Tayl0r Swift]

if flea is town and im scum manipulating flea into situations where flea self-incriminates, then flea has me caught as scum and should be voting me and pushing me hard. yet where is flea voting? a UG vanity wagon.

[Tayl0r Swift]

RC and UG you should vote flea with me. if flea flips town we can take a close look at RC tomorrow. and RC, your echo vote is a lot like my flea vote but i think theres an even higher chance flea is scum. 70 vs 85%

[Random Canadian]

How come you are more sure of Flea as scum than Echo? The connection between Flea and Echo does look promising but I still think Echo is more likely scum.

[Tayl0r Swift]

How come you are more sure of Flea as scum than Echo? The connection between Flea and Echo does look promising but I still think Echo is more likely scum.

because town echo could have just done a dumb hammer and there are some things echo has done that are at least mildly town-indicative. flea has nothing redeeming. and a scumflip from flea implicates echo more than an echo scumflip implicates flea imo. fleas interactions with me are worse. echo is just pretending i dont exist and hoping i go away while flea is using AtE and shading me in a way that implies im her top scumread while voting someone else.

[Random Canadian]

I agree that Flea has been shading you recently but Echo is ignoring you because he is tunneling me. He is pushing hard for the second mislim and is also using AtE in his reasoning. At the very best case this is tunneled town enabling a speed elim by calling for TL to hammer, which I highly highly doubt.

only reason TL doesn't come in to hammer here is if scum buddy

also tl

does

hammer here even if he's scum for free town points
there's a zero percent chance that RC flips green and we all know that

[EchoVision]

dayvig: Random Canadian

[Glitch]

I wasn't giving you the power to hammer. I was giving it to UG, while I could.

Putting someone at L-1 empowers

all players not on that wagon to hammer at any time.

You

empower

Echo, who at the time you were SRing, to hammer a wagon that you were previously uncomfortable joining specifically because Echo was on the wagon.

That in and of itself is just really incriminating and assuming you flip scum, Taylor's hardcore defense of you is red AF.

added a / to the closing italics tag --P

[Glitch]

How come you are more sure of Flea as scum than Echo? The connection between Flea and Echo does look promising but I still think Echo is more likely scum.

What is the case on Echo from your perspective?

empower

my eyes
mod please send help ;_;

[Glitch]

dayvig: Random Canadian

This could get juicy

[Tayl0r Swift]

I agree that Flea has been shading you recently but Echo is ignoring you because he is tunneling me. He is pushing hard for the second mislim and is also using AtE in his reasoning. At the very best case this is tunneled town enabling a speed elim by calling for TL to hammer, which I highly highly doubt.

only reason TL doesn't come in to hammer here is if scum buddy

also tl

does

hammer here even if he's scum for free town points
there's a zero percent chance that RC flips green and we all know that

i mean whatever ill happily compromise on echo, im pretty sure they are both just scum here. but i do think flea has more independent reasons to flip scum.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.03

Stars and Dust in Corona Australis
Image Credit & Copyright: Eric Coles & Martin Pugh via NASA

Elimination

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to eliminate somebody.

Random Canadian

(3): EchoVision, UneducatedGuesser, Glitch

UneducatedGuesser

(1): Flea The Magician

EchoVision

(1): Random Canadian

Flea The Magician

(1): Tayl0r Swift

Not Voting

(1): Town looter

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-10-23 20:15:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok for real town looter needs to show up and play... half the game is barely posting.

[Town looter]

Commmmmmmiiiing!

Just putting the kids to bed.

[Town looter]

Hey Glitch. Good to have you on board, and it looks like you are town too - slight meta read on him, while he is different than last game (seems a little more confident), the overly analytical approach fits with his previous town game (in addition to what looks like a pretty genuine read of the game state).

More incoming, bear with me, I am slow, especially when catching up a lot of stuff.

[Town looter]

TL, can you provide reads please, specifically who you think is scum? You've skirted around giving clear scumreads and mainly left it at a grouping of 3 people left after a PoE. Also, it kind of feels off for trying to defend yourself to 72 after they are dead.

Working on it my man, the wine is flowing, so I am about to overthink the shit out of this weird Echo/Glitch vs. Taylor/RC thing we have going.

Town Looter
Canadian:

Is Flea distancing from UG after my declaration of lockscum in case this results in a lunch and red flip?

Or is Flea down making the best case they can against UG?

I am struggling with both UG's and Flea's styles here: I read their posts, then I re-read their posts, then I am still not sure what their point/case is... It's a pain, because it's also making them hard to read.

So, um, I dunno?

only reason TL doesn't come in to hammer here is if scum buddy

town!TL doesnt hammer here.

theres no world where the lunch today shouldnt be either flea or echo. letting them both escape after everything theyve done since the hammer yesterday is beyond idiocy.

Yeah, I am not the type of person who hammers without a lot of hand-wringing, rabbit holes and paranoia (plus the occasional bit of analysis).

[Town looter]

So I was, following D1, reading Echo as slightly scummy null, to be sorted later - lots of early fluff and kind of a erratic approach, which, I have some recency bias pushing me towards scum reading them because I recently saw this style used very effectively as scum. Then their play during the end of D1 was either poor (i.e. anti-town) or scum motivated (as an aside I find it interesting Glitch didn't see this the same way, in our previous game together we tend to be on the same wavelength, but I am not reading anything into this for now).

Then they start this death-tunnel on RC. I tend to view death tunnels based on subjective information (i.e. posts) rather dimly, because even even the best cases have holes in them and should be, in my opinion, always treated as possible scenarios. So unless it was a good case, I would take this to generally be scum indicative. That being said,

it is a compelling case

.

There is a level of inconsistency in RC's play at the end of D1 which I see only two obvious reasons for:

• they are scum and happy to eliminate whoever, whenever, or
  
• they are fairly new to the game and intimidated by the demands this game can put on your brain and nerves, even as town

Given RC seems to be fairly experienced, I would suggest the former is more likely.

Then my top town read (Taylor, further compounded by posts like 543), claims RC to be town, and wants to eliminate Echo instead.

So tricky situation: I have this slightly scummy feeling about Echo (I'll freely admit it is partly driven by a bias caused by their play style), but they make a good case on an otherwise meh slot, but my town reading of Taylor contradicts this case. Too many "but"s for my liking in that sentence...

I haven't taken a good hard look at the Flea case yet, so will have a look at that before voting (or intenting... is that a word?) one way or the other - although I am not doing that while drinking, I don't have the requisite brain power to figure out UG/Flea posts right now.

[Flea The Magician]

Right now, Echo's lookin pretty town. Solid case built, has been pushing the right buttons. Not exactly smelling of roses, but still smelling a lot better than you. Speaking of you, some have asked questions you've ignored and you've used trap questions to manipulate us into a scummy position.

I'll repeat the questions for you...

Taylor what are your thoughts on RC enabling Echo to hammer Andy yesterday after saying they felt uncomfortable being on the Andy wagon with Echo on it?

Whats your opinion on UneducatedGuesser and the points that myself and 72 raised?

What's your current read on them?

You've already dismissed looking at him today, why? Are you so confident in your D1 reads that you've got this cracked already?

Care to build a solid case on me? One that isn't based on trap questions, misinformation and non-existant information?

so what are your opinions on everything i said about RC

You've avoided these questions like they're about to burn you into oblivion.
You next post wants to be answers to the above.

1)meh. prolly not AI.
2)UG is town. ive said that. yeah im confident that UG is town. i have built a solid case on you. stop trying to spin things. if you thought my case was that scummy youd be pushing me, but you arent. you again show that youre scum.
3) meh maybe. not my most confident townread. but like.... im never gonna vote anyone other than you and echo today.

1) AI?
2) Nothing on the points me and 72 raised?
2i) Nothing on why you've dismissed looking at him today? Scared, perhaps?
3) Fair, tunnel away.
4) Unanswered, again.

You're scum, simple. You're doing nothing but evade and take potshots. Where's this mythical case, exactly? That isn't misinformation and trap questioning? I haven't dropped any AtE that I'm aware of.

Thing is, as I know you're scum, I still have your buddy to find - which I strongly suspect is UG, so I'm off digging where I need to find information. You're just coming to me with information on you

While I'm here,

letting them both escape after everything theyve done since the hammer yesterday is beyond idiocy.

What did I do exactly? I've already asked you this btw "interactions" will need expanding on

[Glitch]

Flea, how high does TS rank in your SRs? Is she more or less scummy to you than UG?

[Glitch]

TL I think I'm vibing with what you said. This game has given me a lot of weird reads that I start to believe but then a single player throws a weird monkey wrench in there and it's all contorted.

But I like your posts and it seems consistent with your town play which I feel like I have a truly solid understanding of after making it to endgame with you in 229.

You can be town for now.

[EchoVision]

taylor you're an alt right

[Tayl0r Swift]

taylor you're an alt right

nope, but i played a few years ago and since joining ive played a lot so im decently experienced at this point id say.

[Flea The Magician]

Flea, how high does TS rank in your SRs? Is she more or less scummy to you than UG?

Taylors my top SR for me currently, I'm not abandoning my current push on UG though as I feel the points I've raised to them need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

Taylor is being consistently scummy by constantly evading questions, demanding information and giving none of her own. Me and echo are her scumreads based on echos hammer and our interactions, on early day 2 and isn't willing to go into any detail.

[Tayl0r Swift]

so heres where im at. there are 7 alive, im one of them, so i have to solve 2/6 people. of those 6, TL and UG are locktown to me. I don't recall a locktown of mine ever flipping scum. RC and glitch are probtown - they could still be scum in theory, but its unlikely. im gonna say glitch is probably townier, and exclude him from PoE. that leaves my PoE at {echo, flea, RC}. Two of those slots i scumread, one i townread. Two of those slots want the third dead, the third seems to be on the same page as me.

So its theoretically possible that i have this all wrong and backwards. But i dont think its likely. If im not wayyyy off-base we should flip flea then echo and it should be a free win from there even if that isnt just the solve.

If you then add in the fact that i scumread both echo and flea individually, i feel very good about lunching there. and then if you add in the fact that echo hammered andy to save flea yesterday, that neither of them has done anything much to try and sort the other, and that they each had the other as null is pretty much case closed for me.

[Glitch]

Taylor I understand your reasoning and everything you're saying makes sense. You are town to me but I just don't agree with your reads on RC. I am willing to jump onto flea today as a compromise if TL will not hammer RC today. However, I really think that that is what is going to happen and what should happen today. I think TL needs to come back and declare intent and RC needs to hurry up and claim. I know that's not your preference for today but unfortunately at this point you are in the minority.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i know im in the minority. and i guess thats ok. but i think the case on RC is a bit eh, and im very concerned that if we dont lunch echo or flea today that they just night kill me and then we lose because there will be no one pushing them. if RC is scum who else is scum with him?