Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[Noraa]

I dont have any reasons for Taylor to be scum besides this isnt her normal town game and I'm not willing to use such a trash reason as some people here are using on me.

[Infinity 324]

You don't think this discussion is helpful? I disagree. And there's lots to be learnt by how people address a case on them. It's forum mafia - what we say and how we say it is all important data right? I guess we disagree philosophically - I'd be interested to see how you form balanced and robust reads if you don't pay attention to people once you have scumread them.

Generally, I feel like players are easier to read when they are not responding to accusations, because then town can feel more free to scumhunt. Certainly depends on the player though. Normally, I try to ask other players, especially townreads, when I am not sure on a read, because getting a second opinion can help distinguish paranoia from useful skepticism. This is why I found it towny that murder asked Isis and noraa about his case on you, because it's probably what I would do in the same position.

[Battle Mage]

noraa, you didnt take up my offer of joining the taylor wagon - talk to me about why?

I am not v confident there. I agree Taylor been acting fishy. I could see a scum!Taylor here as her normal town meta is nothing like this but I hate being SRed for shitty meta reasons that are really weak and like "this is not her town game" so I'm not gonna be one of those people.

ok - you're more confident on Plus?

[Infinity 324]

@mod, can you fix those spoilers?

interesting read on xoxelf - why them first?

I thought it would be easier since they don't have a ton of posts.

[Battle Mage]

I dont have any reasons for Taylor to be scum besides this isnt her normal town game and I'm not willing to use such a trash reason as some people here are using on me.

I don't think that's a trash reason. Meta quality can be variable. In this game, I feel my meta on Taylor is very strongly in the scumzone.

[Battle Mage]

@mod, can you fix those spoilers?

interesting read on xoxelf - why them first?

I thought it would be easier since they don't have a ton of posts.

egotisi, dunnstral and 'narwhal' all have fewer posts

[Infinity 324]

I want to see you read into it.

no. there's not a point bc there's too many possibilities tho I will have you down as trying to buddy murder for now.

Ok, then try to talk through a read with me or give me a strong townread and the reasoning behind in. I'm seeing mainly pushing and defensiveness from your slot, but I want stuff that scum couldn't fake.

[Infinity 324]

@mod, can you fix those spoilers?

interesting read on xoxelf - why them first?

I thought it would be easier since they don't have a ton of posts.

egotisi, dunnstral and 'narwhal' all have fewer posts

Those are harder to articulate an opinion on (also I'm narwhal's slot)

[Battle Mage]

You don't think this discussion is helpful? I disagree. And there's lots to be learnt by how people address a case on them. It's forum mafia - what we say and how we say it is all important data right? I guess we disagree philosophically - I'd be interested to see how you form balanced and robust reads if you don't pay attention to people once you have scumread them.

Generally, I feel like players are easier to read when they are not responding to accusations, because then town can feel more free to scumhunt. Certainly depends on the player though. Normally, I try to ask other players, especially townreads, when I am not sure on a read, because getting a second opinion can help distinguish paranoia from useful skepticism. This is why I found it towny that murder asked Isis and noraa about his case on you, because it's probably what I would do in the same position.

You still think it's townie, even after he acknowledged that he didn't ask his townreads only, he asked basically everyone? Or to be more accurate, he tried to persuade them of it's merits. I don't think he was in any sense trying to get a second opinion in the way you describe.

Less relevant, but as a general scumhunting principle, I think you're missing a trick by not taking advantage of the information from people when they are under pressure. If anything, I feel it can be more informative than when they are not.

[Battle Mage]

@mod, can you fix those spoilers?

interesting read on xoxelf - why them first?

I thought it would be easier since they don't have a ton of posts.

egotisi, dunnstral and 'narwhal' all have fewer posts

Those are harder to articulate an opinion on (also I'm narwhal's slot)

ah great, so i dont need to remember the nickname anymore! I look forward to reading them all though.

[Noraa]

but I want stuff that scum couldn't fake.

scum!me can fake anything imo :3
haven't gotten over my excitement phase after my first scum win a few days ago. It got an extension since I was really upset about my first two games onsite being two scum games of which I lost both.

A solid TR eh? I dont think I have any to be frank. I am not confident in any people being town rn and tho its worrisome, I'm not sure what to do about it so I'm leaving it like that for now.

[Infinity 324]

@BM Here, murder is clearly asking for second opinions, or faking doing so. I don't see an attempt to push a narrative, I see an attempt to start a conversation.

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

Xof, what do you make of BM?

Is there anyone who is reading town on BM right now? If so, please explain

Noraa look at BM for me, what do you see?

[PlusJOYED]

I do agree murdercat is looking to talk to people. More likely doing so as town

[Exorcists]

i've already spoken a bit about jewels in 146/316 and like... norwee is giving me the same vibes he did when i was playing scum against him. like, the closest he has to a read is 394, which like. it's bad. granted, i don't know how to read gamma, but nothing he's done or posted so far is like, jumping out at me or saying ~town~, so.

my current hot take: VOTE: jewel barons

I did not like the Jewel vote at the end of egotisi's catch-up posts. I noticed the foreshadowing, but they haven't taken into account the modspew and this just feels like a wrong vote. Maybe also because I agree with a lot of their other reads, I don't feel this one is very plausible.

Is there anyone who is reading town on BM right now? If so, please explain

I'm town on BM. Rereading 90 interaction, I actually think it was a misunderstanding and or misrep on Taylor's part.

Spoiler:

so first of all taylor isnt inactive here. taylor just despises BM's playstyle. taylor does joke around as either alignment. and taylor does become more active and better at reading as the game progresses (as both alignments). and taylor stands by doing setup spec.

i dont think you can backtrack now and suggest you were 'joking around' when you were trying to out town PRs.

I mean, she said both. I don't think anyone is going to argue over whether she did 'setup spec' or not - that's perfectly clear. I saw the "joking around" bit as either a justification for that, or potentially paving the way for that justification later. Felt it was worth nipping in the bud early.

So I think "misrep" is a stretch.

i mean... BM immediately jumped down my throat, even putting an RVS vote on me and then pushing me as scum and telling people to ignore me. its not shocking. i can play on given that. but i do have to defend myself, and i was asked a direct question about my feelings about BM. if thats an issue i dont mind being replaced. but its not such an issue for me that i cant be civil.

My understanding was BM called out Taylor for PR speccing and then said "well now you've said this, just know you cannot backtrack from that now." The "joking" thing is irrelevant. That reaction is town indicative for BM because it shows he has town's best interests in mind; I would expect scum to turn a blind eye or at least not get worked up about it. Also, the rest of his ISO is pretty towny, a lot of gut takes and punchy posts that feel natural. Isis has suspected him of positioning, but I don't see that (I think his inconsistency is of the towny sort) nor do I see what you're seeing. I told my other heads about my BM townread a few times and they've not really commented on it, but I feel strongly enough about it to let it be known anyway.

Noraa has lots of unfairly caught scum vibes, but then I keep changing my mind

I agree. I feel like she thought she found something very pushable in Plus, but is annoyed people aren't agreeing with her. I like quite a lot of Isis posts.

—Alice

[Battle Mage]

next bit of Taylor's ISO is mainly ragging on me. We can move on...

Spoiler:

taylor just despises BM's playstyle.

What about it?

i dont like BM's logic
i dont like BM's posting style
i dont like BM's strategies
i feel like i dont like BM as a person.
BM always tunnels me (and i have started returning the favor).
its just always a shitfest with BM in the game.
BM has gotten town!me killed with poor nightplay as PR.

so first of all taylor isnt inactive here. taylor just despises BM's playstyle. taylor does joke around as either alignment. and taylor does become more active and better at reading as the game progresses (as both alignments). and taylor stands by doing setup spec.

i mean... BM immediately jumped down my throat, even putting an RVS vote on me and then pushing me as scum and telling people to ignore me. its not shocking. i can play on given that. but i do have to defend myself, and i was asked a direct question about my feelings about BM. if thats an issue i dont mind being replaced. but its not such an issue for me that i cant be civil.

OMGUS - BM suspects me so he must be scum:

BM should know me well enough at this point to know for a fact that shitposting is NAI for me. yet BM is trying to spin it as me being scum.

Defending herself from previous suspicion:

lets just say that no one has caught me as scum with that "tell" because it isnt a tell. i just like to have a bit of fun and live on the edge.

"honestly" scumtell - an old favourite of mine. Also interesting that Taylor claims her scumgame with me was her only scumgame, giving slightly more confidence to my meta.

lets just say that no one has caught me as scum with that "tell" because it isnt a tell. i just like to have a bit of fun and live on the edge.

do you think you do it more of the time town or scum?

-mayuri

honestly

couldnt say. only have one scumgame anyway.

being overly friendly with noraa?:

VOTE: random canadian

haha im kidding <3
id never roll scum, at least not in a game with you!

buddying everyone on the RC wagon, and also being charming to RC. Very friendly.

It does seem like fairest thing to do right?

Actually I think I might be seeing the reasoning on your canadian vote, but I'd like to hear why you voted there

well im used to RC having decent takes and effort. also i like the people on the RC wagon.

Also, so far, lots of partner-equity between Taylor and Infinity, if you include RVS.

I'll continue once I respond to the recent stuff which has caught my eye! Who said this game was inactive?

[Infinity 324]

but I want stuff that scum couldn't fake.

scum!me can fake anything imo :3
haven't gotten over my excitement phase after my first scum win a few days ago. It got an extension since I was really upset about my first two games onsite being two scum games of which I lost both.

A solid TR eh? I dont think I have any to be frank. I am not confident in any people being town rn and tho its worrisome, I'm not sure what to do about it so I'm leaving it like that for now.

Idk, your main two reads you've given this game are scumreads based primarily on how people voted you, and I haven't seen much attempt to sort other slots. Not that I couldn't see your play coming from town, but if you're town I think you're just too focused on the suspicion on you and would love to see thoughts directed elsewhere.

[Battle Mage]

@BM Here, murder is clearly asking for second opinions, or faking doing so. I don't see an attempt to push a narrative, I see an attempt to start a conversation.

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

Xof, what do you make of BM?

Is there anyone who is reading town on BM right now? If so, please explain

Noraa look at BM for me, what do you see?

...I definitely disagree. In particular, look at the occasions where people responded and said I was town, and he either told them they were wrong, or ignored them entirely. Just because these are framed as questions, does not mean he is seeking second opinions. He is merely pushing people to agree with him.

I'm not necessarily saying that means he is scum, but whether scum or town, it's plainly obvious that he is not looking to be dissuaded from his argument here.

[Battle Mage]

but I want stuff that scum couldn't fake.

scum!me can fake anything imo :3
haven't gotten over my excitement phase after my first scum win a few days ago. It got an extension since I was really upset about my first two games onsite being two scum games of which I lost both.

A solid TR eh? I dont think I have any to be frank. I am not confident in any people being town rn and tho its worrisome, I'm not sure what to do about it so I'm leaving it like that for now.

I think I'm your solid TR

[Infinity 324]

@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.

@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:

BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.

Say more? Respond to what I posted?

which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.

[MURDERCAT]

I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do

-GAMMA

Fair enough I'm willing to let it go today if BM comes back with something on taylor

[Exorcists]

as others have stated i can't go hard in depth cuz site rules. But you love tunneling elimable slots like me as scum and I've never seen you tunnel like this as town. You also come off as lamisty to me

AtE does not work on me plus.

Noraa's tunnel continues to rub me the wrong way. She is, at best, extremely biased if she thinks this is AtE.

this is very much noraas scum meta.

that's what I started to notice too
Town Noraa didn't push this hard.

I'd be interested in some links.

This game feels like it is going nowhere fast. We have 3 days left. Need to see more from xof and Dunn.

Scum is probably just coasting because town is being lazy. I posted a case on BM. Can people please either engage with it or make a new case?

I feel like this game both has a decent amount to work with, and I have some reads I feel good about so I'm surprised you think this game is going nowhere. I just responded to your BM read. What is your stance of Noraa vs Plus? What are your reads?

—Alice

[MURDERCAT]

ah great, so i dont need to remember the nickname anymore! I look forward to reading them all though.

Actually I will be referring to infinity as narwhal for the rest of the game to keep things simple

[Battle Mage]

@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.

@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:

BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.

Say more? Respond to what I posted?

which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.

Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!

And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagement

with the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum

. not to be persuaded I am town.

I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.

[Infinity 324]

I'm setting up a townblock with me, exorcist, egotisi and isis. I trust their judgment.

I really like that townblock. Suggest you swap me and Isis, and I can actually roll with that.

What changed on your egotisi read?

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE:

Exorcist + gamma is good enough for me to unvote, obviously its not going anywhere