Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[Infinity 324]

In these early quote walls,

there are a lot of questions which aren't always followed up on. If they are, they don't lead to a real read.

They also often point out things that other people already brought up (e.g. the PR spec thing and murder's unvote potentially being scummy). The scumread on jewel,

besides being very hedgy

, feels like a way to say "look I have my own opinions" while voting someone who isn't the most active and won't be defended by many people.

(1) yeah. that's how i play. not every question has a direct purpose. some are just to see if the answer Inspires me. if it doesn't, then tough luck.
(2) not sure what you mean by hedgy here? like i think i've been scumleaning/reading jewel barons pretty consistently?

-tisi

“granted, idk how to read gamma, but nothing he’s done is particularly town”

That’s what I mean by hedge

[egotisi]

also another thing i think pointing to town!noraa is that there's like... scummy slots that seem to not really care which one goes through

VOTE: egotisi
While I'm a bit skeptical of Infinity's motives currently, I also think we've kinda been stuck talking about a few slots and a wagon here shakes that up a bit.

-GAMMA

this weak asf vote BeCaUsE WaGoN even tho he's kinda skeptical of our main pusher?

I will say it's a bit funky Noraa was looking for a compromise that early, but wagons are wagons, I had a 5 vote wagon form on me on the first couple pages of a 13p mini normal once, and iirc it generated some interesting data, though probably not accurately interpreted data.

-GAMMA

and in his next post, literally 2 whole minutes later, he's throwing shade at noraa

@inifinity, i think i saw you say that your preferred votes are us and noraa, right? can you tldr me why you suspect noraa or link it or something?

-tisi

[egotisi]

“granted, idk how to read gamma, but nothing he’s done is particularly town”

"i''m scumreading norwee and the other head isn't doing anything town" doesn't really read as a hedge to me but i might be biased who knows lel

-tisi

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: xofelf

Noraa is E-1 so I might as well park here. I think if it were up to me I might flip there just because it feels like that wagon never got off the ground and xof did dip again.

[egotisi]

some other things that were asked of me earlier

So you're basing it just on me not having reads and saying that's my scum meta? Cus i was really just planing to derp around while Gamma did most of the posting.

(idk the point of replying to this but)
my idea is that town doesn't have to force themselves to have reads because it comes to them naturally
and i know scum!norwee does *not* get reads naturally
so the "hihi i was just gonna derp around" feels like a scum excuse more than anything

I did not like the Jewel vote at the end of egotisi's catch-up posts. I noticed the foreshadowing, but they haven't taken into account the modspew and this just feels like a wrong vote. Maybe also because I agree with a lot of their other reads, I don't feel this one is very plausible.

this is correct, i am absolutely not taking modspew into account. first, because i always try to not take things like that into account. second, because it doesn't actually spew anything, other than that the hydra doesn't have

their own

PT? like some mods set up hydra PTs immediately, some don't. i don't see how "oh, people are talking about hydras not having hydra PTs, better make sure they know i'll make a hydra PT if needed" implies their slot is town? like if we had just one hydra in game, i can see it if i squint. but we have three.

-tisi

[Infinity 324]

“granted, idk how to read gamma, but nothing he’s done is particularly town”

"i''m scumreading norwee and the other head isn't doing anything town" doesn't really read as a hedge to me but i might be biased who knows lel

-tisi

Maybe that was the wrong word, it pinged me for some reason.

Basically I’m scumreading Nora because it doesn’t feel like she’s trying to solve the game, she’s mainly scumreading people for votes on her and not doing much to sort other slots. Meta is way off from her town game imo and pretty similar to scum (low solviness, high AtE). The Taylor read in 1272 makes no sense and feels like she made it up to have a TR.

[egotisi]

I'm going to switch to VOTE: egotisi, because I don't think either head has responded to me and that could very well be GeorgeBailey still horrified of my history catching him and consciously or subconsciously not wanting to keep me on the agenda.

you asked me something?

isis iso ctrl+f ego it is

oh cool, so i wasn't blind when i couldn't find whatever 483 was referring to

439. You don't seem to care about the dynamic, since you vote Gem Barons in this post. Did you disagree with Dunnstral's take, or do you think the slot is so so scummy you'd acknowledge it and think it needs to be the very first lim of the day? I think it's worth at least day 1 pass in a setup where hitting scum day 1 is really good because it's always a scum PR, even if it's not something you could bring to eLo and say keeps the slot out of PoE.

see 1354. i disagree with the take.

If I had two votes I'd vote Noraa because her posting is making me nauseous again. Mis-stating whether her main points of interest started on her initiative or someone else's seems like the scum-indicative type of error (our earliest interactions in the game started with her saying she wanted to OMGUS me, so..).

the next sentence is once again expressing the willingness to vote noraa too. cool.

-tisi

[egotisi]

If people wanna push on egotisi, that's their business. I have absolutely no read on the slot whatsoever. They're not contributing anything one way or another, but at least it's not actively bad. I know I haven't been doing all that much either, but I'm trying as best I can.

like this is exactly the reaction i'd have been expecting from scum!noraa
the weird non-read while obviously being open to jump onto the wagon
which is again making me suspect scum!xof

i think exorcists did the same "i'd vote either" on this page that i was calling people for out earlier but i remember townreading this slot pretty strongly so meh

-tisi

[xofelf]

If by dip you mean I went and did other things and went to bed, yeah def did that Cat. I like my vote where it is. Nothing Noraa has really said in response has really made me think she's not a good vote here. And arguments I've seen from other people to the contrary I feel like I've seen from scum before, so like *hard shrugs*. I don't really have much else to say there, unless you're saying you want me to post things that aren't actually contributing to the conversation, I can do that. But I've always thought that posting when you have actual relevant thought and not inflating thread with words for the sake of posting was the way to go.

Idk what to tell you. I may be quacking like a duck and walking like a duck, but I swear I'm a goose.

[MURDERCAT]

Xof who are the other two scum?

[egotisi]

Spoiler: egoposts

i think we've already learnt quite a lot. an unusually high number of people defending taylor without grounds.

who is actually defending taylor here? like is "not instavoting taylor the second BM asks for it" = "defending taylor"?

murdercat climbing up my reads with 268/269

hmm
isis, why are 279/280 towny to you? like they read like null-to-maaaaybe-nullscum posts to me

i found this a bit surprising, at this point i was feeling like i had like one and a half weak townread (exorcists and maaaybe murdercat) with a whole buncha people either being null or south of null (RanCan for stuff, BM with the questionable push, and xof/norwee feeling active-lurky)

Can you explain what you mean by active-lurky?

active lurking is like, posting meaningless post to appear to be contributing
both your and xof's posts neatly fit into that
like up to that point you were what, making an excuse why you won't post much because logging in is difficult, voting the mod, and joking about clint eastwood

is that all you wanna say after 7 pages? do you have any reads?

-tisi

VOTE: xofelf

The fact that so many people are throwing shade here when I am totally null on them makes me suspicious. Sorry tayl0r, come vote here now let's see what happens.

This is feels like a non-reason(?) for a vote. You find them suspicious because other people find them suspicious? Do you have any other reasons for finding them scummy?

Also:

VOTE: RandomCanadian

I am going to very blatantly hop on this wagon because [reasons to be revealed later]

UNVOTE: by the way, served it's purpose

The idea was that there is likely scum on the wagon, just because it's easier to get 5 votes from 13 players than 10. If you remember from Noir, you had an early wagon on you that involved a vote from PP. I think that scum often takes the opportunity to distance with an early wagon, so I had a theory that Random Canadian might be scum getting hit by that distance vote (also I saw that Random Canadian had logged on but not posted in this thread, which seemed a little off to me considering how early into the game we were). Either way I was curious how votes would react as the wagon accelerated. It's probably not super useful right now but I think it will be nice to look back on after we get some flips. I did hate Isis's vote to leave the wagon but she did the exact same thing in Noir (and I hated it there too ). I'm not sure what to make of your unvote and revote.

Murdercat's progression on this feels off. You give no explanation for it, the wagon deflates after you voted, then you unvote and say it's for a test and it valuable after flips.

Why did you unvote rather than change to a different wagon? I know this may sound menial, but usually unvoting is a reaction to a post or something someone said.

-ego

Just gunna point some stuff out as I see it. These posts directly contradict, but are from different heads. I'm not really sure what to make of that, is that just something that happens? Makes me feel like they were not discussing in PT, but I'm not sure why scum wouldn't be aligned in who they are pushing? But maybe it's not that important for scum to be aligned with a push early? I don't have a strong AI read on this but I am curious if anyone makes anything from it.

the pedantic part of me wants to point out that they don't *directly* contradict, we're town/scumreading you for different posts
the normal part of me wants to say that we haven't tried to come to agreement for our conflicting reads yet (mainly you/xof) (because most of our discord right now is "go post" "no you")
as for if it's ai, /shrug, i know what i'd say

I think it’s probably more likely to come from town, since scum would probably be more careful about checking with their hydra partner to make sure they didn’t mess up. Not super AI though imo.

gut makes me feel like this is one of those scumposts where it's like, pushing a misexe, saying something is town-indicative to add ~nuance~ but not in a way that actually makes anyone stop scumreading the target

Spoiler: killerkitty posts

Honestly there is .. not much there? I don't know reading through the iso I think I didn't give it enough credit I think there is real game solving going on. Gunna go look at the case against ego

I'm going to switch to VOTE: egotisi, because I don't think either head has responded to me and that could very well be GeorgeBailey still horrified of my history catching him and consciously or subconsciously not wanting to keep me on the agenda.

Weak vote

I’m honestly really happy with the direction we’re going in.

VOTE: egotisi

Weak vote

VOTE: egotisi
While I'm a bit skeptical of Infinity's motives currently, I also think we've kinda been stuck talking about a few slots and a wagon here shakes that up a bit.

-GAMMA

Weak vote. What are we actually doing here?

Talk to me about ego infinity because I'm not seeing it. On to Tayl0r

murder are you pocketing me?

-tisi

[PlusJOYED]

Idk what to tell you. I may be quacking like a duck and walking like a duck, but I swear I'm a goose.

"i may look like scum but im not i swear"

[MURDERCAT]

murder are you pocketing me?

Do you think infinity and me are ever scum together (asking because it feels like you are pointing at both of us here)

I pay a lot of attention to how wagons are formed and at first I thought the wagon on you was good as you hadn't really see much heat. But actually looking at the votes it didn't look very strong to me

[Infinity 324]

Tisi, thoughts on isis?

[xofelf]

Xof who are the other two scum?

Oh I have no idea. That's not how I look at things. Not on day 1 with no flip information. I really only tend to notice those connections with people AFTER there's actual solid information we have. Before it can mean anything. Town and scum interactions with people can like identical. And considering how often it's smart for scum to distance or purposefully buddy up to somebody who is town in order to cast suspicion on them if they leave, there's too much noise to sort out for me, so I uh don't do it that way? I'm more of an individualist anyways. Look, I'm all about information, and until I have anything actually concrete, I can't really do anything. Just.. how I work.

[egotisi]

I’m not a fan of how MCat approached the egotisi wagon

i wanna hear about this

murder are you pocketing me?

Do you think infinity and me are ever scum together (asking because it feels like you are pointing at both of us here)

I pay a lot of attention to how wagons are formed and at first I thought the wagon on you was good as you hadn't really see much heat. But actually looking at the votes it didn't look very strong to me

i wasn't trying to point at both of you. to me it looked like your posts are more genuine defense of our slot, which is why my thought was "if murder is scum, this is a pocket" rather than "if murder is scum, this is a weak ass defense that doesn't do anything"

i didn't see any neon signs that say "never ever s/s" but right now i'd bet on not s/s, especially since me myself am not scumreading you

also i thought the ":(" at the end would be indication that i wasn't fully serious about accusing you of pocketing me but sorry if it didn't come across right

Tisi, thoughts on isis?

i remember being town on her before (which feels like a long time ago considering i put this game on the back-burner for a bit) but i'm not a fan of the willingness to vote either wagon

i wanna see her come back and give updated thoughts on my slot at least

-tisi

[egotisi]

VOTE: xofelf

-tisi

[Battle Mage]

Noraa vs xoxelf?

I'm sticking with Noraa I think. The Noraa wagon has both her partners on it though. hmm...

need big brain BM right now

[Battle Mage]

did nobody claim yet? we have 2 people at L-1!

[egotisi]

did nobody claim yet? we have 2 people at L-1!

no, we have one person at L-1, and nobody has been given intent yet, sooooo

-tisi

[Battle Mage]

and seriously, why the hell would taylor be so hard to elim if she was town?

if there's a vig, please resolve this.

[Battle Mage]

did nobody claim yet? we have 2 people at L-1!

no, we have one person at L-1, and nobody has been given intent yet, sooooo

-tisi

you just put xofelf at -1?

[Battle Mage]

oh no, im dumb. i thought egotisi in the vote count was xofelf lol. carry on...

[Battle Mage]

good thing you didnt self-vote yourself to -2 though eh?


saved it!

[Battle Mage]

i still want that sweet noraa claim then. maybe a town PR claim might save you!