Newbie 2036 - Game Over

[Micc]

Trednall has been killed Night 1. They were a

Vanilla Townie

.

It is now Day 2.

Votecount 2.00

Not Voting (7) -

Gawr, Tayl0r Swift, hessian, Olivia2020, Satisfaction, donkihott, Fredrick A Campbell

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2020-10-28 12:00:00).

[Tayl0r Swift]

so i should say a couple things here real quick. it is not scummy to state L-2, L-1, etc when putting someone a couple votes off from a lunch. its etiquette and expected. It means scum cant lolhammer and say "oops i didnt know". Also, it is really bad form to hammer without stating intent and giving the person being hammered an opportunity to claim or give a few final thoughts. everything worked out yesterday, but imagine if that had been a town PR that died like that. we'd be in a really bad spot right now. also im not sure i understand the night kill, but whatever.

[Satisfaction]

Oh happy day.

I think Gawr is the most likely target here but I would like to hear her talk a bit. VOTE: Gawr

Anybody with a few more games under their belt know the likelihood that the speed hammer yesterday was a desperate last minute bus to deny information?

pedit: I had pretty strongly townread Trendall. Maybe they felt that people were coming around to that? Also, Mark had townread me so maybe the idea was to shine a spotlight on me?

[Tayl0r Swift]

when i have more time later ill reread the game and see whats what. it should be clear if people were defending marky mark etc

[hessian]

VOTE: donkihott

I'm suspicious of donkihott for two main reasons:

A) Inconsistent Behavior Before Hammer

Here's donkihott's last post before Marky Mark was really put under scrutiny:

Right now to me Marky seems like one of the good ones or at least he is really trying to appear as one.

Then, once the wagon is at E-1, he tries to prevent, or at least delay, Marky Mark's elimination.

Lmao yeah that's enough.

VOTE: Marky Mark

What's enough? What are your reasons behind voting Mark?

Also why did you skip saying you're putting him on E-1?

That is really fishy. I think everybody can count to 5 so you don't need maths to see someone is at E-1. I think you just wqnt to get rid of him fast.

So far, his behavior is at least internally consistent; if donkihott was town, and he was town-reading Marky Mark, then it would make sense for him to want to push back against the elimination. But,

less than 1 hour later

, he decides,

Well, fk it.
VOTE: Marky Mark

The only explanation I can see for such an abrupt change of mind is that donkihott realized his scum buddy was about to be eliminated, and then decided he might as well try and get some town cred.

In fact, the line, "Well, fk it," really, really reads like frustrated scum to me.

B) Marky Mark/donkihott Interactions

Here's a list of pre-hammer interactions between the two:

6. donkihott

As I have said previously, his tone feels fairly authentic town and his self-awareness in #56 doesn't strike me as a scum trait. Would be good to hear more from him though as he hasn't posted a great deal.

Town read.

Of the players in this game, the ones I am currently finding the most suspicious (with the noteable exception of donki) also happen to be ones that are sitting back and not giving us much to go off.

I will vote for Gawr cuz she talks too much

and I don't want to die on D1

VOTE: Gawr E-2

(My underline, not the original quote)

When I first read this, it came across as mildly scummy (voting another player to avoid dying themselves) but the more I think about this, the more town-ish it seems as what he specifically said that he didn't want to die on D1. I mean this is page 1 so take all this with a bit of salt, but it kinda comes across as a fellow townie. A scum wouldn't want to die period, but I know the feeling of being town, accepting that I may well die in the course of events (eg NK) but wanting to make it past the first day. I'm gonna put Donki down as a very mild town tell for now.

Couple of things that stuck out to me before I head to bed

While I found your vote weird, I was not too suspicious of you, and my actions have reflected that: I worded my post very mildly; I didn't move my vote from RVS onto you; in my next few posts, I engaged with other people on different topics. So the fact that you are reading my single, mildly worded post as me being "very sus" on you... feels like an overreaction, and actually does make me quite suspicious of you now.

This is valid to an extent although, interstingly, donki goes on to say that his reasons were "not a solid argument at all" in #56 which kinda undermines the point he has just made, so I'm guessing he meant it more as a train of consciousness type thing than evidence to actually go off?

Marky Mark tried to push town-reads on donkihott more than he did for any other player, and often with weak reasoning.

That's not a good look for donkihott.

[hessian]

Forgot to mention: in post 86, Marky Mark had donkihott as his second-highest town read.

[Satisfaction]

about still in RVS but none of the below are massively helpful in terms of exposition ie adding any meaningful info into the game

Here

Mark

shades Tay,

Tren

, Olivia, and Fred.

I agree with Marky Mark, Trendall's response in #22 is a bit frustrating.

Here, hessian supports Here

Mark

against

Tren

. She doubles down on this position in 29. However, hessian jabs at Here

Mark

in her 34, questioning his tone.

I will vote for Gawr cuz she talks too much

and I don't want to die on D1

(My underline, not the original quote)

When I first read this, it came across as mildly scummy (voting another player to avoid dying themselves) but the more I think about this, the more town-ish it seems as what he specifically said that he didn't want to die on D1. I mean this is page 1 so take all this with a bit of salt, but it kinda comes across as a fellow townie. A scum wouldn't want to die period, but I know the feeling of being town, accepting that I may well die in the course of events (eg NK) but wanting to make it past the first day. I'm gonna put Donki down as a very mild town tell for now.

Here

Mark

weakly defends donk.

While I found your

(donk's)

vote weird, I was not too suspicious of you, and my actions have reflected that: I worded my post very mildly; I didn't move my vote from RVS onto you; in my next few posts, I engaged with other people on different topics. So the fact that you are reading my single, mildly worded post as me being "very sus" on you... feels like an overreaction, and actually does make me quite suspicious of you now.

This is valid to an extent although, interstingly, donki goes on to say that his reasons were "not a solid argument at all" in #56 which kinda undermines the point he has just made, so I'm guessing he meant it more as a train of consciousness type thing than evidence to actually go off?

Here,

Mark

defends donk to hessian.

In 85

Mark

townreads donk, hessian, and I. He scumreads Fred and Olivia.

In 86

Mark

rates donk as a very weak confidence, strong town read. He scum reads Tay, Fred, and Olivia.

Also why did you skip saying you're putting him on E-1?

Here, donk pressures

Tren

to explain his

Mark

vote and complains about silent E-1.

That is really fishy. I think everybody can count to 5 so you don't need maths to see someone is at E-1. I think you just wqnt to get rid of him fast.

Here donk suspects that

Tren

wants to quick-elim

Mark

... one page before he turns around and does the deed himself.

VOTE: donkihott

[donkihott]

Okay, first I want to apologize for the hammering.

Now to address the accusations of hessian, which by the way start from page 2. I think it is obvious to all (town aligned) that that hammering should prove my innocence on 95%.

Since there is a etiquette for hammering (which I again apologize for not following) it means that we would've have 24 hours to hear Marky's thoughts. I am not sure why a sane mafia would hammer his teammate and try to win the game on its own.So the argument that I tried to prevent people from getting information sounds absurd.


Mark did a graph where he placed his thoughts on town/mafia so I think we should take the sets of the people who didn't vote for Mark, the people Mark stated as town aligned, get the intersection and start from there.

Which are {Hessian, Olivia, Gawr} and {Me, hessian, satisfaction, gawr, trendall} which leaves us with Hessian and Gawr.

Another interesting thing is that hessian had his first vote was for Trendall and exchanged some arguments with him. Also on Mark's diagram hessian is pretty close to me on the town scale.

Personally I think Gawr is not playing at all so my vote goes to hessian. VOTE: hessian

You are all free to suspect me, I have nothing to fear about

[Satisfaction]

So far, his behavior is at least internally consistent; if donkihott was town, and he was town-reading Marky Mark, then it would make sense for him to want to push back against the elimination. But, less than 1 hour later, he decides,

I agree. This is the smoking gun.

[donkihott]

Also what do you think are the odds that a SE like Mark who hasn't played for 6 years would agree to sacrifice himself on D1 to let the newbie carry the game on his first game?

[hessian]

I am not sure why a sane mafia would hammer his teammate and try to win the game on its own.So the argument that I tried to prevent people from getting information sounds absurd.

Also what do you think are the odds that a SE like Mark who hasn't played for 6 years would agree to sacrifice himself on D1 to let the newbie carry the game on his first game?

In both cases, the answer is: because it was quite obvious Marky Mark wouldn't be able to save himself. He didn't have any other option.

[hessian]

Obligatory PSA: donkihott is now at E-2.

[donkihott]

Was it obvious? Why was it obvious? You had hard evidence on him or what?

[Satisfaction]

I’m not sure. He seemed like a pretty nice guy who probably recognized that he was digging his own grave because he was overeager.

[Satisfaction]

Haha you can’t argue that Mark could have saved himself when you are who killed him.

[donkihott]

There are two mafias right? Who of you is throwing

[hessian]

Was it obvious? Why was it obvious? You had hard evidence on him or what?

I think we can agree that things definitely weren't going well for him, no? Even if he miraculously redirected us to another Day 1 elimination target, he would have been more heavily scrutinized for the rest of the game.

[hessian]

Anyway, back on topic: donkihott, can you explain why you went from pushing against Marky Mark's elimination to hammering him within the space of an hour?

[donkihott]

If I physically could I would've hammer within 5 minutes. As you can see from the start I am a little impatient and couldn't really get any idea about any of the players so I wanted to speed up the process.

[Satisfaction]

take the sets of the people who didn't vote for Mark, the people Mark stated as town aligned, get the intersection and start from there.

For what it’s worth, I agree. That’s what I was doing (and why my big post starts with hessian) but your name just kept popping up over and over.

hessian operates too similarly to me for me to see a scum motivation. I find it unlikely that scumbuddies would push each other the way hessian and Mark did like that when they didn’t need to.

[Tayl0r Swift]

VOTE: donki

thats L-1

can we make this the quickest game in years?

[donkihott]

[quote="In post 145
can we make this the quickest game in years?[/quote]

Nope.

[Satisfaction]

I wouldn't mind entertaining a claim from donkihott at this point. I can also see an argument for giving our quieter folks a chance to weigh in first, though.

Off topic: sorry for all of the extra "Here"s in my 131. I was copying the font color formatting and it hitched a ride all across my post.

[Tayl0r Swift]

yeah i think a claim would be appropriate.

[donkihott]

Can you paraphrase that, because I didn't really understand what I was asked.