Death Curse

[Fidget]

No way Bell or Lady are scum

why is bell even town

I generally find players who start to tilt under pressure towny.

pedit: Oohhhh. Hi Berserker.

Ah I see, I probably worded that bad. The pressure doesn't have to be significant. Just enough to get them annoyed, so a single scumread works.

A big reason I believe in this tell is because I throw a tantrum under pressure quite a bit. I assume the worst of whoever is scumreading me and it clouds my judgment. When you're scum you know they're right though, so there isn't nearly as much to get upset over.

Getting caught for the wrong reasoning might throw a wrench in this theory, as well as personal grudges. But I feel justified in saying lots of genuine sounding emotion, especially frustration = towny.

Anyway the point I'm saying this though is that I think Bell disproportionally getting worked up over not much pressure at all qualifies. I do the same thing.

[Isis]

I'm not sure I still scumread you MUSH

[Isis]

yea ok but there's no reason to insult her for it. That's just mean =/

She obviously thinks you are very good - otherwise she wouldn't do the whole suicide-gambit.

The real question is more like - was it like for real or just scum-theater?

I don't fuckin' know Pooky.

They need to die for claiming scum at some point no matter what. It's not something you can just do and get away with alive.

I just don't know. Part of me is like "anyone who is willing to do that in a game where you'd basically be trading 1 for 1 with me which people know I am generally willing to do if I think you are scum, especially when I'd get a chance to make it 2 for 1."

Like that's bad play for scum if the gambit is accepted for sure.

The question is like... did they know the gambit would be rejected? Hard to say, given the only way they can back off from their claim is for me to have not recognized them, which they might have been able to key into but thats hard to say for sure?

It's a hard situaiton. My gut leans "probably town, but needs to die the death anyway".

I think I get mislimmed later in the game in this lobby most of the time, so it's not really a 1 for 1, it would actually just be a 0 for 1. Or maybe a 0.25 for one.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Give me a case on the version of me you did scumread then. I'd like to see what you were seeing beyond "you have a single bad reason to townread a person", and I have a theory I'd like to test that that easily satisfies.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It seemed stretchy to call discrediting a buzzword. I kind of could have picked a lot of different anti-noraa posts, but they generally felt like looking for additional little reasons to scum read her beyond what's natural where I would expect a townie to harken back to stronger core reasons. I think inductive was perhaps the wrong word.
The second one is LAMISTY because you mention getting

green

role PM, and that being the brainstorming moment. I speculate you thought about the setup a little bit before getting your role PM and a lot more after getting it, but to look town you want to be slightly incorrect and emphasize that resurgence in interest upon joining the town.

I called you nullscum. You don't have to think they're amazing.

If you think I plan things before I join a game you're crazy. Actual crazy.

And it's not really a stretch to call it that because it was a lie on her part. She could have tried to use any other number of words to describe what she meant but discrediting was not one of them. It's a popular mafia buzzword because people see it and respond with "hmm that is a scummy thing to do" and react accordingly.

I don't get your logic on either of these but since apparently you were desperate for a townread from me and didn't get it and now you're.... I don't fucking know.

Doing this.

could you at least find somehting real to scum read me for so I can pretend that feeling like you might be town has some merit to it?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont think scumIsis even thinks up this gambit much less tries it but I've never played with ScumIsis before so *shrug*

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yea ok but there's no reason to insult her for it. That's just mean =/

She obviously thinks you are very good - otherwise she wouldn't do the whole suicide-gambit.

The real question is more like - was it like for real or just scum-theater?

I don't fuckin' know Pooky.

They need to die for claiming scum at some point no matter what. It's not something you can just do and get away with alive.

I just don't know. Part of me is like "anyone who is willing to do that in a game where you'd basically be trading 1 for 1 with me which people know I am generally willing to do if I think you are scum, especially when I'd get a chance to make it 2 for 1."

Like that's bad play for scum if the gambit is accepted for sure.

The question is like... did they know the gambit would be rejected? Hard to say, given the only way they can back off from their claim is for me to have not recognized them, which they might have been able to key into but thats hard to say for sure?

It's a hard situaiton. My gut leans "probably town, but needs to die the death anyway".

I think I get mislimmed later in the game in this lobby most of the time, so it's not really a 1 for 1, it would actually just be a 0 for 1. Or maybe a 0.25 for one.

???

You're...what the fuck are you saying.

I'm speaking from a perspective where you are scum to try and decide if scum you would do this action

and you're like "well actually if LLD was scum I'm useless as town so it's more like 0 for 1".

Are you even reading my posts or just skimming and coming up with things to say that you think sound right

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i dont think scumIsis even thinks up this gambit much less tries it but I've never played with ScumIsis before so *shrug*

This is like, probably true.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But Isis needs to die for it later on regardless.

So they can just die like, IDK, round 2 or 3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No probably too early.

4 or 5?

[Isis]

Why do you want to kill town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont think this game goes to round 4

[Lady Lambdadelta]

How many rounds of elims are we gonna have? 3x5 is 15+1 is 16 which is the 2nd last round?

yeah okay that sounds right

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why do you want to kill town?

Because 1) I'll be dead by that point 2) I find what you've done here to be insufferable and 3) you might actually be scum based on this gambit, I'm just having a hard time seeing it, so I'm just marking you for death later so you can do work now without people calling for your head all the time.

Consider it like a "as long as LLD is alive I live" pass, and when I die you're on the chopping block lol

[Fidget]

i dont think scumIsis even thinks up this gambit much less tries it but I've never played with ScumIsis before so *shrug*

Isn't the extent of the gambit claiming scum and self-voting? And saying it's because they want a vig shot.

I'm not familiar with Isis, but my first thought would be that I wouldn't do that for fear that my partners interpret it as me throwing. I talked about self-voting earlier, I think it would be acceptable to try and fake some weird town slip with a self vote thinking it's an optimal strat. But claiming scum too? Seems like something that scum partners might take issue with. Makes me inclined to agree.

On the other hand, it's WIFOMy and gross, sure.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i dont think this game goes to round 4

really?

You think we're gonna stomp them that bad?

Cause we only win in round 3 if we kill 2 scum twice and then kill the last scum, lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the motivation part is the part that is hard to come up with - not the self-sacrifice part

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont think this game goes to round 4

really?

You think we're gonna stomp them that bad?

Cause we only win in round 3 if we kill 2 scum twice and then kill the last scum, lol

there's nothing wrong with being optimistic.

[Isis]

Tayl0r is more wavery, but this is identical to past Tayl0r play I've seen first-hand, so I'm going to stick with it.

This reads a bit like a fabricated meta read due to the odd confidence mistmatch compared to the reasoning.

Shelly and I have tangled in the past and I never win that scum matchup. She's elusive and I trust myself to read her play approximately 0%.

This didn't read very curious. I usually like when people are curious. And it feels like giving yourself a pass on reading a slot since fabricating reads is a pain anyway and you know it'd be hard as town.

I don't have a ton more, it's not a strong read.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the motivation part is the part that is hard to come up with - not the self-sacrifice part

Yeah you gotta ask yourself "is it worth scum isis sacrificing themselves to kill me and giving me a vig shot on my way out?"

answer is a clear NO.

So then you gotta ask "is it worth Isis riskign their life in that way to gambit in the hopes that they are denied and don't die and we ignore them?"

and it IS worth it but the risk might be too high

[Isis]

i dont think scumIsis even thinks up this gambit much less tries it but I've never played with ScumIsis before so *shrug*

Isn't the extent of the gambit claiming scum and self-voting? And saying it's because they want a vig shot.

I'm not familiar with Isis, but my first thought would be that I wouldn't do that for fear that my partners interpret it as me throwing. I talked about self-voting earlier, I think it would be acceptable to try and fake some weird town slip with a self vote thinking it's an optimal strat. But claiming scum too? Seems like something that scum partners might take issue with. Makes me inclined to agree.

On the other hand, it's WIFOMy and gross, sure.

This game has daytalk, I would be able to assure my partners in the scum PT that I felt this was the play cause I want us to save the dayvig for someone who gets cleared by good associatives but I want to remove a strong town player early and I think I'll get limmed anyway.

I'm not sure whether I'd do it even if they didn't agree it was a good play. Teammates who aren't known to me likely don't think it's a good play but that feels different.

I'd like to think I could convince four people it's a good play though.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think it's hard for scum Isis to come up with the paranoid fear that Scum LLD is going to annihilate this town completely and utterly to get to the motivation needed to fabricate this gambit.

Tho I could be wrong - Isis is like very creative :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like wouldnt it be way easier for scum isis to just dayvig you

[Isis]

I don't think I've gotten to see town LLD play yet (except maybe right now) So it would be kinda sad to send a D0 dayvig on LLD. I think maybe I would though, with her being such a reputational outlier in this playerlist

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't wanna talk about the dayvig in too much detail but there is an obvious reason the scum would save it I don't wanna get into.