Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 3.3

PookyTheMagicalBear

(1): Blitzo

OutWorldER

(1): The Bulge

Gamma Emerald

(1): Kasumeat

Blitzo

(1): PookyTheMagicalBear

Not_Mafia

(1): Panzerjager

Panzerjager

(1): OutWorldER

Not voting

(3): Thestatusquo, Gamma Emerald, Not_Mafia

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to yeet someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-11-04 16:30:00)

[Blitzo]

ok then you say it's not fishing for traction, you mind telling me what's the point of making a comment like this:

I don't really know how I feel about that elimination tbh. It feels like the tunnels in this game are crazy deep and need to be reassessed.
UG was also pretty inactive and, along with the duppin kill, reeks of trying to preserve gamestate.
I think we need to reassess the fact that the reason this game might be so confusing is because TSQ is actually scum - there's pretty much no reason to kill UG over him and that really needs to be looked into.

Like what's your goal? What's your line of thought? What do you want to assess?

Sifting through people who are coasting. I've been posting about this almost since day 1 and don't see why I should reiterate it again - this is pretty much the primary thing that I've been focused on since the start of the game almost, and I've harped on it almost every single day since EoD1.

Bulge is barely being coherent and posts like 2405 and 2406 read like the insane ramblings of a madman. I agree with Shea in that I just...can't respond to that. There's not really anything to respond to.

That said:

vote nm

We gotta do it at some point and tonight is a better spot than tomorrow.

This post is incredibly garbage. You've had an entire 2 days before this (and previous days you've given SR's, including myself and Gamma) and now your shifting to a policy elim on D3? Combined with your Noraa vote on D2 I'm pretty convinced your one of the scum trying to coast by.

VOTE: Panzerjager

I agree.

Like honest question panzer, if you think that policy elim of someone who has been useless is a good idea right now, why would the town prioritize killing N_M over you from our POV?

I agree that this should definitely be addressed.

[OutWorldER]

Bulge is barely being coherent and posts like 2405 and 2406 read like the insane ramblings of a madman. I agree with Shea in that I just...can't respond to that. There's not really anything to respond to.

That said:

vote nm

We gotta do it at some point and tonight is a better spot than tomorrow.

This post is incredibly garbage. You've had an entire 2 days before this (and previous days you've given SR's, including myself and Gamma) and now your shifting to a policy elim on D3? Combined with your Noraa vote on D2 I'm pretty convinced your one of the scum trying to coast by.

VOTE: Panzerjager

LMFAO just both giving up that quick eh

2408 is pretty fucking direct. try harder.

2408 was also about something that was already discussed. Literally the 3 or 4 direct posts after it. Try reading.

[The Bulge]

nope. why was it a town-motivated push?

[The Bulge]

explain that. you said you would come back to it. now is the time.

[The Bulge]

anyone who still believes the ic claim.....i don't know what to tell you.

[Thestatusquo]

lol ok dude.

I'd respond to that but there's really nothing to respond to.

here I'll make it real easy for ya

why did you misrep the situation in 2355?
what are your immediate thoughts on the validity of outworld's claim?
why did you gloss over your entire early interaction with outworld in 135?
how is it that you think certain inconsistencies with my theory are the reason it is a scummy attack, when you said yourself in 144 that inconsistencies are often a towntell?

1) I stand by that representation. It reads exactly like you were going to go after them but then figured out halfway through they might be open to your attacks on others.
2) I already said what I think about outworlds claim in great detail. Please at least read my posts if you're going to attack me about them.
3) I don't know what you're talking about. That post was not a comprehensive break down of the game, it was a scattered collection of thoughts as they occurred to me.
4) I don't think you're scum because you're inconsistent, I think you're scum for things over the course of the game. Being inconsistent is fine, but usually when town players are inconsistent and its pointed out to them they try to reevaluate and see if it changes their thoughts, not use it for the bulkhead of a new attack like you're doing here. It's not the inconsistency itself that is scummy.

[Thestatusquo]

"your questions/angles are weird so I'm not going to answer them but I will put energy specifically into discrediting you" is a scum reaction almost 100% of the time in my personal experience.

I'm not commenting on this whole conversation but this is just definitely not true in my experience. Town and scum in practice react to being attacked for reasons they find stupid in pretty similar ways in my experience.

[The Bulge]

1. you said nothing had happened between my posts
2. uh yea you have said a lot about it and I still don't know what your opinion of it is, which is the problem I'm having. what was your gut reaction to the claim and why didn't you comment on it in your first five posts today?
3. curious as to why the interaction didn't make any sort of impression on you then.
4. 2357 and 2366 heavily imply you find my inconsistency itself scummy.

[The Bulge]

"your questions/angles are weird so I'm not going to answer them but I will put energy specifically into discrediting you" is a scum reaction almost 100% of the time in my personal experience.

I'm not commenting on this whole conversation but this is just definitely not true in my experience. Town and scum in practice react to being attacked for reasons they find stupid in pretty similar ways in my experience.

in a vacuum for sure, nothing is black and white scum/town behaviour imo. but the second criteria of repeatedly discrediting me under the guise of ignoring me is an important factor.

[Thestatusquo]

You seriously don't think town does that?

Be real. Literally you can find a huge example of that happening IN THIS GAME.

[The Bulge]

Ok but context is important too. this is not the first time outworld has brushed off direct accusations and within the same post diverted attention to another part of the game.

[Blitzo]

@Bulge - do you have an actual case on tsq or outworld?

[Thestatusquo]

1. you said nothing had happened between my posts
2. uh yea you have said a lot about it and I still don't know what your opinion of it is, which is the problem I'm having. what was your gut reaction to the claim and why didn't you comment on it in your first five posts today?
3. curious as to why the interaction didn't make any sort of impression on you then.
4. 2357 and 2366 heavily imply you find my inconsistency itself scummy.

1) ah so you're focusing on minutia instead of my actual point, cool. Even if you "thought some more" or whatever it is you claim you did my point is the same.
2) my gut reaction is that its not a very realistic claim and also that I don't think it's likely that mafia would randomly soft claim and then claim nonsense for no reason in a game where they're clearly ahead. You know, like I said? When I come and I see something I post. I don't remember what I was specifically thinking about when I made my first posts, and clearly I wasn't even aware there was a soft claim because I had to ask for someone to show it to me. Claiming I'm ignoring outworldER is just a preposterous attack. I've broken down my thoughts in great detail (as you even admit) I spent most of yesterday voting him. I was the first person to call him out for the post that you then jumped on. It's just a patently absurd attack on your part. It makes no fucking sense.
4) I might have said that, idk. Its possible its what I was thinking at the time. I don't really know where you're going with this. The way I play mafia is I pick at things that dont make sense to me. Inconsistency is not a scum tell, that's true, but what you're doing feels very calculated to me, so it doesn't make a lot of sense that in your calculations you'd find things that I (and all town players) do all the time to be scummy. It's not necessarily the inconsistency that I find fucking atrocious, its the whole calculated attack.

I'm not gunna read the posts you're referring to but if I was not as precise enough for you thats your problem not mine.

[The Bulge]

@Bulge - do you have an actual case on tsq or outworld?

I really don't need to case outworld and I am absolutely baffled rn that anyone wants to elim outside of a claimed scum slot today.

shea iso read is ongoing I've been pretty busy.

what do you mean by case?

[The Bulge]

1. stop deflecting. obviously that's the inconsistency I was talking about in the first place. I said as much in my first reply to you today, and my question was literally why did you say that if it wasn't true.
2/3. preposterous, patently absurd, makes no fucking sense. when scum is caught for what they deem the wrong reasons, I guess you're right in that there's really nothing to respond to.
4. fair, but I think it was your kneejerk reaction to someone calling the correct team for silly reasons. again there's not a lot of great ways to defend something like that, hence why you contradicted your OOG post from earlier.

[Thestatusquo]

1) I'm not deflecting. I stand by my statement. I think your interaction there was an attempt at pocketing.
2) I gave reasons why those things are true. Maybe you should try responding to them instead of just being amazed at my vocab.

[The Bulge]

re:outworld, I'm not talking about optimal play or what x would reasonably do in y situation. I'm clearly not implying he is playing optimally or within his partners' wishes.

[The Bulge]

the pocketing point can still stand I don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with you misconstruing facts to make your imitation of me seem more accurate.

gotta go for now

[Thestatusquo]

I wasn't paying that much attention to your every move. It's possible I'm mistaken but without going back and rereading I think your claim was like "some time had passed and I read some more" which I don't buy as much of a change.

My gut is that I don't know what to do with the claim because it doesn't make much sense. If you're asking if I thought a mod would put that role in a game I wouldn't myself but outguessing the mod is pretty stupid.

[OutWorldER]

nope. why was it a town-motivated push?

It felt like a townie genuinely noticing weird shit and felt like the kind of thing I might've focused on, mainly with the part of "taking the steam out of the Blitzo wagon", had I been perceptive to the same things.

re:outworld, I'm not talking about optimal play or what x would reasonably do in y situation. I'm clearly not implying he is playing optimally or within his partners' wishes.

this narrative that i'm going against going against a scumteam also makes zero fucking sense because if that were the case

you would not be the only one voting me

.

@TSQ, Gamma, you guys want to put a vote down on somebody? We're already a few days into the deadline and I'd like to start consolidating votes on

somebody

even if that somebody has to be me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have things I need to look at. I’m not voting until I figure it the fuck out.

[Thestatusquo]

There are 7 days until deadline. I don't feel any pressure to vote right now, especially because I have no fucking idea who I would vote for even if I did.

[The Bulge]

nope. why was it a town-motivated push?

It felt like a townie genuinely noticing weird shit and felt like the kind of thing I might've focused on, mainly with the part of "taking the steam out of the Blitzo wagon", had I been perceptive to the same things.

Why didn't you say this originally?

re:outworld, I'm not talking about optimal play or what x would reasonably do in y situation. I'm clearly not implying he is playing optimally or within his partners' wishes.

this narrative that i'm going against going against a scumteam also makes zero fucking sense because if that were the case

you would not be the only one voting me

.

that's not true. all your partners have to do is state they think your claim is plausible. which is what everyone but me is doing. the

correct

way to deal with a claimed Day X IC is to leave them alive. it is incredibly easy for your partners to blend in here.

@TSQ, Gamma, you guys want to put a vote down on somebody? We're already a few days into the deadline and I'd like to start consolidating votes on

somebody

even if that somebody has to be me.

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS AN IC POST
is anyone reading this game holy fuck

[The Bulge]

I wasn't paying that much attention to your every move. It's possible I'm mistaken but without going back and rereading I think your claim was like "some time had passed and I read some more" which I don't buy as much of a change.

My gut is that I don't know what to do with the claim because it doesn't make much sense. If you're asking if I thought a mod would put that role in a game I wouldn't myself but outguessing the mod is pretty stupid.

by far the most notable is that outworld claimed between those posts.