Newbie 2038: Elements [Game Over]

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 1.6

Nitrogen, ₇N

— reactive nonmetal, standard atomic weight 14.007, group 15, period 2, p-block

c4e5g3d5

(2): muh316, JDye

Mizzytastic

(2): 72offsuit, c4e5g3d5

cylstar

(2): Mizzytastic, hunterr

muh316

(2): Egix96, AGamblingPig

AGamblingPig

(1): cylstar

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-11-06 06:30:00)

[muh316]

Haven't interacted with anyone so a readlist is a bit difficult.

Town:
Cyl
Mizzy,
Hunter
C4

Neutral:
AGamblingPig
Egix
72
Muh


Not confident enough to actually call someone scum yet so won't be voting just now. I'll wait a page or two to get a better feel for the game.

Did you post these in order of most to least?

[muh316]

Why are you so preoccupied about interaction?

All i did was ask you for a read on hunter.

If you are town, from your point of view, I have a 75% chance of being town.

So my suggestion is that you cooperate and work with me, and work on the assumption that I am working in good faith as a starting point.

I'm not avoiding your question because I think you're scum. I'm avoiding it because it's just a bad question. If you had asked me what my thoughts are on all the other players or asked me to provide a list of reads, that's a different story. No idea why you're targeting hunter or me for that question.

[muh316]

SO now I'm going toVOTE: Muh316. He said last night that he was going to start participating more but since then has 4 posts none of which have any real game content besides refusing, repeatedly to give a read on hunterr when asked by 72. His posts read more like prod dodging, which could be scummy to avoid attention

If I was prod dodging I would have stopped at a single post and kept myself under the radar. I would have probably also answered 72's question to get him off my back so I can keep lurking like Egix.

[muh316]

More generally. muh is saying not much. It's bad. We all agree he should say more. Can someone give me a scum intent for still not trying after people really start calling it out and voting there? Cos right now it feels policy elimy to me.

Can you clarify what you mean by this. Are you referring to AGamblingPig voting me for inactivity?

[muh316]

Regarding Mizzy's questions in #24, I've got next to no experience. Just finished my first newbie game and it didn't go well. I threw. Town lost. Wouldn't recommend reading.

Most people probably agree that you're doing better than I am, even though I'm the SE.

#114 from muh is yikes. This far into the day and all they can say is "hmmm". There's defintiely things to weigh in on. Hope there's more from them in the next few pages.

There's not more from me in the next pages. The hmmm was thrown in there since I check the thread frequently on my phone, I just hate typing on my phone and prefer to write when I'm on my laptop.

#121 further makes me think cyl is pretty town. Empathy for a person as reason not to vote them. Don't think I see this reason get thrown out by scum.

I disagree, it comes across to me as buddying a strong player who's probably going to make a good case for being town.

[muh316]

Sorry for post spam, but when I reply I find it easier to manage one reply at a time.

My reads in no particular order

Neutral:
Everyone not listed below

Leaning Scum:
72OffSuit - For constantly nagging me
Egix - For lurking just as much as I am but still remaining mostly under the radar
Cylstar - Scum vibes from the Mizzy buddying. Also just as inactive as I am but not getting the same treatment as me.

I would vote 72 because OMGUS. But that won't gain much traction anyway, so I'll UNVOTE: C4and VOTE: Cylstar

[muh316]

WRT Egix & muh: Hypocrisy only means that both sides are wrong or at fault at some level so the response from muh is basically just deflection though a valid point. muh definitely looks worse, not because of this,

but because he's been a far bigger lurker than Egix

.

How so?

[72offsuit]

Sorry for post spam, but when I reply I find it easier to manage one reply at a time.

My reads in no particular order

Neutral:
Everyone not listed below

Leaning Scum:
72OffSuit - For constantly nagging me
Egix - For lurking just as much as I am but still remaining mostly under the radar
Cylstar - Scum vibes from the Mizzy buddying. Also just as inactive as I am but not getting the same treatment as me.

I would vote 72 because OMGUS. But that won't gain much traction anyway, so I'll UNVOTE: C4and VOTE: Cylstar

This just sounds to me like you are keen to vote whoever you think will get wagoned

[Egix96]

Hey,

Just going to give my thoughts as I read through the thread. Wont be much of interest in there but should kinda be as if I'd been playing the game from the start, and give you questions to ask me.

Spoiler:

I've got no problem with 72's opening. Reading some of their games they seem to play with this sort of stream of conciousness style. I haven't got a problem with it.

Also don't really have a problem with C4's vote or their response to questions. "It's RVS" is a valid reason and their "Not particularly" response is tonally town for me.

Regarding Mizzy's questions in #24, I've got next to no experience. Just finished my first newbie game and it didn't go well. I threw. Town lost. Wouldn't recommend reading.

Mizzy's questioning of C4 on page2 reads as town and then the back and forth with hunter that occurs later on in page2 reads as town for both of them.

Cylstar's vote on C4 feels a little off. Piggy backing off of what hunter said rather than giving a reason of their own.

72's #65 about Mizzy's double post feels weak to me. Same for the "It's LAMISTy" reasoning too.

Hunter's #84 reads is good. Follow up of what they were previously questioning Mizzy over. Questioning a town read off very little. I disagree with what they're saying (I was getting slight town vibes from it too) but I like that they said it.

Dislike of 72's #94. Perhaps it is something they've learnt from their experience with the game, but I don't thnk considering that an action could be scum trying to appear town is AI.

Cylstar's #95 is something I want to mention, just because I don't think anyone else did. Tone (as in being rude or whatever) isn't AI, I learnt that the hard way in my last game. Them asking if 72 being defensive is scummy isn't AI for me. Defintiely them being inexperienced and unsure of what is good and bad (think this due to them also not knowing how to vote at the start of the game).

#98 by AGamblingPig is a safe vote. Mizzy had already said they wanted to vote my predecessor and rather than weigh in on anything being said they just threw out the vote and dipped for a while.

Mizzy's #102 in response to 72's 94 mirros my reasoning so town cred there. #103 isn't something I agree with (them voting cyl off their #95) but disagreeing != scum.

Cyl's #104 is interesting since they said in their last post they were considering 72. Mizzy said it was scummy to do that and they changed my mind. This reaction could come from a new player of either alignment. Cyl saying they want to vote mizzy in the same post does give me good town vibes. Resisting the urge to OMGUS as a new player because they think Mizzy is town even though they're catching heat from them.

#111 from C4 is a bit weird. Seems a little OMGUSy but their reasoning for point 2 is similar to mine so town vibes here I think. Their #112 is a bit short on actual content. Pretty much just gives reasoning on Mizzy and says not much about the rest. Hard disagree with their assessment of Egix or Mizzy being "good newbie-stimulating SE's".

#113 by AGamblingPig is also pretty safe once again. I'd like to see something more substantial from them.

#114 from muh is yikes. This far into the day and all they can say is "hmmm". There's defintiely things to weigh in on. Hope there's more from them in the next few pages.

#119 from hunterr is weird. Townlock on C4 from a post that 1) disagrees with their own thoughts and 2) isn't super AI in any way.

#121 further makes me think cyl is pretty town. Empathy for a person as reason not to vote them. Don't think I see this reason get thrown out by scum.

#122 Still nothing interesting from AGamblingPig.

#123 from 72. Pretty safe option to prod muh to post something. I don't disagree, but why not mention some of the stuff that was just said. Further prodding of inactives in #126. Safe posting again. Not necessarily AI but, again, why not interact with the others too?

I like #128 from Mizzy. Mentioned them a lot haven't I? In fairness they are very active and have said interesting things. Again, disagree with their views on Cyl but like the way they're trying to go about the day. #131 from Mizzy is decent too. Called out a weird play from hunterr that I didn't catch.

#135 by C4 is decent. I don't trust SE's so being cautious of them is good

#137 from muh is decent. Like them calling out Egix for also not doing much in the game. Like them calling out 72 for their question about hunterr, it seemed to come from nowhere and have no reason for it being asked. Would still have like muh316 to answer it, just to finally get some of their thoughts out into the game. Not much harm in answering.

#140 by 72 is actually a bit towny. Doubling down on the questioning and mentioing the dodge.

Hunterr's #141 t0 #144 is... okay. They give valid reasons for the Cyl read, just not ones I agree with. Mentions 72's questions, although it is after muh has already done so.

#145 doesn't feel town to me. Surely answering questions would be helpful and at this stage of the game, I don't see why not to answer.

#72's #155 is good imo. Calls out muh not answering the question in a much better way than I ever could.

I disagree with your thoughts re: cyl, but on the whole I'm liking this entrance

[Egix96]

Sorry for post spam, but when I reply I find it easier to manage one reply at a time.

My reads in no particular order

Neutral:
Everyone not listed below

Leaning Scum:
72OffSuit - For constantly nagging me
Egix - For lurking just as much as I am but still remaining mostly under the radar
Cylstar - Scum vibes from the Mizzy buddying. Also just as inactive as I am but not getting the same treatment as me.

I would vote 72 because OMGUS. But that won't gain much traction anyway, so I'll UNVOTE: C4and VOTE: Cylstar

This just sounds to me like you are keen to vote whoever you think will get wagoned

I was entertaining the idea of a cyl/muh team but this is making me doubt that.

[72offsuit]

SO now I'm going toVOTE: Muh316. He said last night that he was going to start participating more but since then has 4 posts none of which have any real game content besides refusing, repeatedly to give a read on hunterr when asked by 72. His posts read more like prod dodging, which could be scummy to avoid attention

If I was prod dodging I would have stopped at a single post and kept myself under the radar. I would have probably also answered 72's question to get him off my back so I can keep lurking like Egix.

Preoccupied with how others are or may be reading his slot - scum mindset - survivalism over scumhunting.

[72offsuit]

Haven't interacted with anyone so a readlist is a bit difficult.

Town:
Cyl
Mizzy,
Hunter
C4

Neutral:
AGamblingPig
Egix
72
Muh



Noone is asking for you to pin scum, but to not be able to at least put 1 player in the 'scummy' bin is a bit concerning.
Not confident enough to actually call someone scum yet so won't be voting just now. I'll wait a page or two to get a better feel for the game.

[Egix96]

Spoiler:

Just finished my first newbie game and it didn't go well. I threw. Town lost. Wouldn't recommend reading.

I skimmed it because someone I know was in it. You were okay.

Hunter's #84 reads is good. Follow up of what they were previously questioning Mizzy over. Questioning a town read off very little.

I mean, hunterr ended up townreading the same player off of very little as well, so I'm not sure about this one.

Cylstar's #95 is something I want to mention, just because I don't think anyone else did. Tone (as in being rude or whatever) isn't AI, I learnt that the hard way in my last game.

I wouldn't dismiss tone entirely, and there are some mad geniuses who can solve games off of tone, but there's no guidebook to tonereads.

Mizzy's #102 in response to 72's 94 mirros my reasoning so town cred there. #103 isn't something I agree with (them voting cyl off their #95) but disagreeing != scum.

Mindmeld reads ew

#111 from C4 is a bit weird. Seems a little OMGUSy but their reasoning for point 2 is similar to mine so town vibes here I think.

Not really seeing how it was OMGUS if Mizzy's post wasn't about me.

#119 from hunterr is weird. Townlock on C4 from a post that 1) disagrees with their own thoughts and 2) isn't super AI in any way.

Well you have plenty examples within this post of townreading posts you disagree with so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#135 by C4 is decent. I don't trust SE's so being cautious of them is good

Wonder why lol

What's so bad about mindmeld reads?

[JDye]

This feels like classic newbscum.

Mindset preoccupied with people earning town points, because thats what Mazzy themself are trying to do as scum - trying to appear town.

Preoccupied with how others are or may be reading his slot - scum mindset - survivalism over scumhunting.

You've made two posts like this and I've disagreed with both. A single post does not show preoccupation with something and even if it did, these still aren't scummy mindsets.

[muh316]

Sorry for post spam, but when I reply I find it easier to manage one reply at a time.

My reads in no particular order

Neutral:
Everyone not listed below

Leaning Scum:
72OffSuit - For constantly nagging me
Egix - For lurking just as much as I am but still remaining mostly under the radar
Cylstar - Scum vibes from the Mizzy buddying. Also just as inactive as I am but not getting the same treatment as me.

I would vote 72 because OMGUS. But that won't gain much traction anyway, so I'll UNVOTE: C4and VOTE: Cylstar

This just sounds to me like you are keen to vote whoever you think will get wagoned

If I want to exert pressure on a player I need to present a case that the other players can also get behind. Voting 72 isn’t going to exert any pressure since it’s going to be me voting OMGUS.

[muh316]

Preoccupied with how others are or may be reading his slot - scum mindset - survivalism over scumhunting.

I need to defend myself if I’m getting voted, right?

[Umlaut]

hunterr was prodded.

[Umlaut]

Seeking a replacement for hunterr.

[c4e5g3d5]

muh definitely looks worse, not because of this, but because he's been a far bigger lurker than Egix.

How so?

Before this recent string of posts, you simply had less content than Egix. That's different now, though, so that's a plus for you.

What's so bad about mindmeld reads?

It's the perfect way to generate both tunneling and pocketing.

Keeping a vote based on a microread this long is unhelpful so UNVOTE: Mizzytastic. Looking at the player list, the people who haven't had a significant positive impression on me at any point are muh, Egix and AGamblingPig.

For the most part I agree with 72's points on muh; lurking and then returning with a WIFOM defense is NAGL, and the whole "72 wouldn't gain much traction" thing is plain scummy.
Egix not caring about lurking accusations thrown at him is NAI IMO. That leaves just the lurking, with a bit of content in between.
Pig is now the lowest poster I believe. When he was posting he was putting thought into his posts, though.

VOTE: muh316 until further notice.

[AGamblingPig]

Looking at the player list, the people who haven't had a significant positive impression on me at any point are muh, Egix and AGamblingPig.

I wouldn't be surprised if 2 of them are scum.

[Mizzytastic]

I've been in bed with a headache most of today and I'm busy the next 4 hours so I've only really skimmed. I'll try and catch up before bed depending on how tired I feel. This is the stuff that stood out to me on a skim.


Based on the vote count at the top of the page (I know it's changed since), I would be very surprised if all 4 of those 2-vote wagons are on town. Scum have 4 different players to pick from there and it feels odd to me that they'd pick in a way that produces that split. It also makes JDye's decision note to vote his lowest read feel like it's less scummy unless muh-JDye is exactly the team. It's SO easy for scum to vote there, as a replacement coming in with new perspectives onto a player the momentum of the day is turning against. Not that I like the no voting, especially when it's leaving the old vote instead of an actual unvote.

Activity isn't necessarily an alignment tell. For Egix at least I can say I've seen them be low activity as town, and in a mish mash game I ran as a scum role that is specifically trying to look as town as possible (instead of town enough to get someone else elimmed). I might have read a game he was in as scum, but I don't remember one and I've definitely not been involved in one.

@muh - I wasn't talking about anyone specifically with my question about scum intent for the way you've lurked, just the general feel from the game as a whole turning in your direction. You were a good policy elim if that activity level continued but a policy elim in general is a last resort or a "oh god I don't want this in ELo".

My thoughts were people seemed to be scum reading you for it, and if you are strategically lurking as scum (as opposed to, y'know, busy) and you have a choice to pull yourself up when you get pressured, you do. You have to be genuinely busy or very confident in being able to pull off TSTBS otherwise.

However, no one feels town enough to you to even give a slight lean?

@AGamblingPig - that's a weird way to phrase something about a group of 3 you are included in. Why do you think that?

[cylstar]

I probably should have posted this earlier but - about the muh 72 thing, I feel like it's perfectly fine to ask a question of someone who hasn't said much. Idk why it was so specific, but I can think of several reasons. I don't know if my reasons are right or even logical.

[cylstar]

How do replacements work? Like if you had suspicions about the player before they were replaced, do the new suspicions carry over to the replacement?

[JDye]

especially when it's leaving the old vote instead of an actual unvote.

Didn't know my predecessor's vote would remain in place. Thought it would be removed. I'll unvote because if I was going to vote right now, it definitely wouldn't be fore C4.

UNVOTE:

I would like to know why you consider not voting to be a bad thing though? Statistically, games where there is no elimination in the first day have a higher town win rate. Town are actually worse at finding scum on Day1 than a random number generator. Not that I'm pushing for no elimination right now, I'm just waiting to see everyone post so I can be more confident in my reads before I make my decision.