Mini Normal 2173 | Bending | Game Over

[DkKoba]

vp why do u think i dont buy that shit?
infinity cares more abt survival than solving lol

[DkKoba]

also dgb is hard town

[VP Baltar]

Rereading Gamma's iso, he was going at infinity pretty hard at the end of D1 as well. Earlier in the day, he was after Jackson pretty hard.

A few slight jabs at Andres and mark, but nothing as serious there.

I absolutely think there was scum on the geraint wagon, but possibly later in the day. I'm a bit skeptical that both geraintm and infinity were town being run up because it just felt like a lot of resistance. Obviously without daytalk, scum are going to have a harder time coordinating their actions...but why the heck would they slow walk two town wagons?

Mark, I'm not following your logic that scum is most likely in the people who wanted geraintm as a primary choice. Hell, gamma wanted him as a primary choice.

[VP Baltar]

who in this game has a decent amount of experience playing with gamma (3+ games)?

[Infinity 324]

Ok, so yeah, the math on infinity's claim is that he was at L-3 when he claimed. That seems exceptionally antsy when the threshold today is L-6 and I had intentionally avoided not voting there. I really don't get how you as town yesterday walked right up to the razor's edge (think you were L-2 yday with people saying they'd be willing to elim you) and not claim, but then claim today quite early when you think there is a guilty on you. It was a serious "flinch too early" if you're town.

Fair enough, I did get pretty antsy but I really thought DGB would retract earlier if it was a reaction test. I don't think the number of votes on me matters if there's a guilty, since I need to claim at some point, but yeah.

[Infinity 324]

also dgb is hard town

Why?

who in this game has a decent amount of experience playing with gamma (3+ games)?

Me but too long ago to be relevant I think

[Almost50]

I always think outside the box (some call it moon!logic). Let's say scum have a Role Cop, and they targeted Infinity. They now know that this is an Investigative role, so why nor sacrifice one of them in exchange of eliminating the Investigative? Uncommon and unlikely, but possible non-the-less

Hmm, I'm suspicious of A50's uncertainty about the claim just based off this. @A50, did you think my reaction to the claim was towny? Or was there another reason you weren't sure about the guilty?

Go back and reread. I .. do .. NOT ... trust ... D ... G ... B!

It's not that I trust you, but more that I don't trust her. HELL, this could be a SvS gambit to conf!town one at the expense of sacrificing the other, and still outing an Investigative in the process (that investigative would not be you in this scenario).

My mind is going places because of the weird shot that's being thrown around (or maybe because I have been in too many Large Themed setups with similar gambits being totally the norm)

[VP Baltar]

I don't think the number of votes on me matters if there's a guilty

It matters if you're the town's primary form of investigation. I mean, I would expect that play from a noob...

[Not_Mafia]

So was the guilty real?

[VP Baltar]

So was the guilty real?

Doesn't seem so. Seemed like a play by DGB

[Marky Mark]

Rereading Gamma's iso, he was going at infinity pretty hard at the end of D1 as well. Earlier in the day, he was after Jackson pretty hard.

A few slight jabs at Andres and mark, but nothing as serious there.

I absolutely think there was scum on the geraint wagon, but possibly later in the day. I'm a bit skeptical that both geraintm and infinity were town being run up because it just felt like a lot of resistance. Obviously without daytalk, scum are going to have a harder time coordinating their actions...but why the heck would they slow walk two town wagons?

Mark, I'm not following your logic that scum is most likely in the people who wanted geraintm as a primary choice. Hell, gamma wanted him as a primary choice.

@VP - Clearly not everyone (or even the majority) who wanted geraint as a primary choice is scum, but there are likely IMO to be a subset of >= 1 people in there that were. It was a nullish, no info slot so I can understand people voting it but for that to go through as the primary option ahead of some arguably juicer and more tangible wagons on dk and infinity suggested to me that scum were likely involved in pushing it.

Put another way, being a primary geraint voter doesn't make people automatically scum, but it does give them in a general sense a higher liklihood of being scum, so it seems more fruitful to give more focus to looking for potential scum in this subset

[Marky Mark]

I mean by my own logic you could extrapolate this to say that anyone on his wagon full stop or who voted him earlier in the day is more likely to be scum than average and that is totally legit logic, even speaking as someone who hammered him

[Infinity 324]

I don't think the number of votes on me matters if there's a guilty

It matters if you're the town's primary form of investigation. I mean, I would expect that play from a noob...

Not

really

sure why you're pushing so much on this point since I'm not getting limmed as an un-cc'ed investigative, but sure. The claim was bad.

[Marky Mark]

I don't think the number of votes on me matters if there's a guilty

It matters if you're the town's primary form of investigation. I mean, I would expect that play from a noob...

Not

really

sure why you're pushing so much on this point since I'm not getting limmed as an un-cc'ed investigative, but sure. The claim was bad.

Am I missing something? We don't know the setup so nobody ccing you doesn't rule out you being the scum

[Almost50]

also dgb is hard town

Now that's a new one! Let's just hope there are no Inventors throwing around unstoppable Vig shots then.

DON'T ASK. Only DGB should be able to laugh at this comment.

[Infinity 324]

Am I missing something? We don't know the setup so nobody ccing you doesn't rule out you being the scum

I mean sure, a normal could theoretically have no investigatives, but it's unlikely enough that we can wait until massclaim to figure it out.

[Almost50]

who in this game has a decent amount of experience playing with gamma (3+ games)?

I do.

[VP Baltar]

Put another way, being a primary geraint voter doesn't make people automatically scum, but it does give them in a general sense a higher liklihood of being scum, so it seems more fruitful to give more focus to looking for potential scum in this subset

I get what you're saying. Just not sure I agree with the premise that either side of that is particularly higher likelihood. I can see from a statistics point of few how that makes sense though.

[VP Baltar]

Am I missing something? We don't know the setup so nobody ccing you doesn't rule out you being the scum

I mean sure, a normal could theoretically have no investigatives, but it's unlikely enough that we can wait until massclaim to figure it out.

lol, this is terrible logic. If I think you're the most likely to be scum today, you better believe I'm going to try to yeet you, regardless of whatever your claim.

[Marky Mark]

@Infinity - I don't want to get too bogged down in mechanics discussion but is your logic basically that there's usually only 1 investigative TPR therefore if nobody else is claiming it then it must be you? I'm genuinely struggling to follow the logic here, although that could just be because its late, and I have spent way too much of today trying to make computers work

@VP - yeah, it's not the be all and end all, but I thought it was a useful tool for trying to hone my reads a bit

Goodnight all, thankyou for the pleasure of your company

[VP Baltar]

Me but too long ago to be relevant I think

how long ago is too long ago?

[VP Baltar]

I also have to go for the afternoon. Might post again before sleep tonight, but I've accomplished what I planned for the day. Eager to hear from some others.

[Flavor Leaf]

Consensus reads* in general

{taylor, JV, mark}
{flavor}
{gerain, n_m, A50}
{DGB, gamma, VP}

I'll ISO andres tomorrow and revisit koba later.

Quoting for quick reference.

Koba wasn't even on this list. I found that weird at the time.

I did too.

I just did a quick read of the first couple pages of the day, but I have to go. I'll try to do stuff before I sleep tonight.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just been looking through the votecounts from the end of D1

Geraint wagon was

Gamma Emerald

, DrippingGoofball, VP Baltar, Infinity 324, Tayl0r Swift, Almost50, Marky Mark

I would count FL on this too as he said in 2070 that he was ok with the elim and didnt give any preferred alternatives. I would also count JV as he was in the same situation as me ie preferred DK elim but was content to hammer geraint

Of the above, JacksonVirgo, Not_Mafia, Flavor Leaf, Marky Mark, Tayl0r Swift were on DK wagon at its peak ie they wanted DK as primary elim choice

This leaves

Gamma

, DGB, VP, Infinity, A50, FL who were first-choice geraint voters

Clearly, there's more to catching scum than reading votecounts, but I think it's a useful piece of the puzzle to be aware of. I mean, geraint was a low-info nullish slot, so I don't think the arguments used to justify votes on him were necessarily flawed, but I reckon choosing a null low-info slot as a first choice elim (rather than as a compromise, which later happened) is moderately opportunistic. In other words, I don't think everyone on this wagon were scum, but I can see scum getting on board to ensure it got pushed through as the primary choice

I would count me as both on and off it for the negative reasons only, if that makes sense.

[Infinity 324]

Me but too long ago to be relevant I think

how long ago is too long ago?

About 3 years, gamma's playstyle has changed a lot since then

I have one recently completed game with him but that's it