Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: No Eliminate

I think this is probably the best option today.

If I die tonight then Bulge is most likely lying about his claim. The only possibility he's not is if there's a strongman, which, I hate to try and outguess the mod, but I doubt in this setup. He should absolutely target me.

Bulge dying clears Kasu meaning we have two conftown going into Day 5.

Anybody else dying we'll cross the bridge as we come to it, but I still think we have good info regardless.

[OutWorldER]

I did realize while typing that is that if scum killed that night it would've been Elo not MeLo today which does change my outlook on things but I still think I'm in favor of solid information.

[Thestatusquo]

im saying that's the only time i was ever talking about the no kill thing. my other posts, to put it bluntly, were simply telling our ic to stfu.

I don't believe this is accurate. Posts 2801-2803 sure read like you're at the very least being very disdainful to the idea that scum might NK and you've backed off of it since then as it became clear that most people don't buy that argument.

Like I'm still leaning town on your slot because of the mechanics here but I don't think you're being intellectually honest with this post.

[the worst]

why is scum nokill any more silly a theory than usual?

where was the followup? what was the point? why not kill the ic?

i mean
no kill makes a tonne of sense if they're gambiting today

why are you being all subtle here lmao
obviously yes my claim could be that. and obviously im answering this question fmpov, which is what you were trying to understand in the first place.

i'm kinda surprised as either alignment you're playing hard this phase but just utterly not acknowledging the value of a scum gambit
i appreciate you're pushing your perspective but this feels disingenuous

[the worst]

shea is inside my brain

[Thestatusquo]

Is there town motivation for trying to conf town yourself as much as possible even to go so far as to stretch a little bit the nature of the situation? Yeah I've seen that done by town. Are there more scum motivations? Yeah probably.

idk dude. Like I said I'm leaning towards a solve of worstie pooky and gamma/blitzo. We'll see how that looks tomorrow with more information.

VOTE: NO ELIMINATION

I think this is obviously the best play.

[The Bulge]

im saying that's the only time i was ever talking about the no kill thing. my other posts, to put it bluntly, were simply telling our ic to stfu.

I don't believe this is accurate. Posts 2801-2803 sure read like you're at the very least being very disdainful to the idea that scum might NK and you've backed off of it since then as it became clear that most people don't buy that argument.

Like I'm still leaning town on your slot because of the mechanics here but I don't think you're being intellectually honest with this post.

Im not talking about posts that far back. yes ive talked about it before. but that's not what i was doing just now with outworld, which is how many people are representing it.

[The Bulge]

why is scum nokill any more silly a theory than usual?

where was the followup? what was the point? why not kill the ic?

i mean
no kill makes a tonne of sense if they're gambiting today

why are you being all subtle here lmao
obviously yes my claim could be that. and obviously im answering this question fmpov, which is what you were trying to understand in the first place.

i'm kinda surprised as either alignment you're playing hard this phase but just utterly not acknowledging the value of a scum gambit
i appreciate you're pushing your perspective but this feels disingenuous

what? you're clearly implying that my claim is the "gambit" today. I know my claim is true, so show me where this gambit I should be acknowledging is.

[the worst]

i'm not saying you should be acknowledging another gambit and i'm not ~implying~ anything? i'm being completely explicit - the way you dismissed a nokill carte blanche as SILLINESS felt disingenous.

[the worst]

half of me wants to take this phase and press people for actual solves
the other half realises that's a really bad idea just before a no elim and we probably should be no eliming

[Umlaut]

Kasumeat was prodded.

[Kasumeat]

Gah sorry I've had a super busy weekend and should've been on VLA.

[Gamma Emerald]

just got to work so this is an egopost
ppl please leave me notes on what's good because i'm not likely to read 120 pages

Pretty much you’re working from a blank slate imo, since NM did shit all
So if you can at least put in some leg work I am willing to trust you (though NM wasn’t the key figure in my PoE anyway)

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I'm gunna throw a major pissy party about N_M when this game is over. Fair warning.

Yeah why’d he get yanked suddenly, was that his last prod straw?

[Thestatusquo]

Gamma something that hasn't been addressed is why you pushed hard to convince blitzo to push me in the hood last night when you yourself havent pushed me at all and had been calling me town as recently as yesterday.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I see some dispute over what to call skipping the elimination vote, my homesite calls that “abstaining” or “voting to abstain”

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma something that hasn't been addressed is why you pushed hard to convince blitzo to push me in the hood last night when you yourself havent pushed me at all and had been calling me town as recently as yesterday.

Because he was being very loud about not being confident in anything and I was trying to give him a push forward, plus I agree on the read but didn’t want to push it myself given my charisma only seems to kick in when I’m dead wrong.

[Kasumeat]

Should have more time to post tomorrow, but briefly:

So I “scum slipped” by thinking MCat’s Pooky case sounded decent and seeing Noraa’s claim for what it was? How are those slips at all? I could see you calling that scummy nothing was “slipped” in the slightest.
I was not convinced MCat was scum before his lim, so the fact I treated him like he could be town means nothing. Obviously if MCat flipped scum I would have to take the case with a grain of salt.
As for Noraa’s claim, I had seen her get cold feet on fakeclaiming PR as VT in another game so I understood how her signals on softing could be a little wonky. And despite me making it clear I had a high bar for the claim, she claimed a super weak role. That is not a move I see newbscum doing. And you were in that game where Tywin Lannister screwed up his PR claim, so why the hell couldn't you see that Noraa was making the exact same mistakes as he was?

I went over this, but here it is for the millionth time: MC had been voted and was about to be flipped. Your reaction was "oh I like this case that MC just made". That's not a post that comes from the mindset of a town. Town is excited about seeing the flip. Town might be interested in the case MC just made AFTER seeing the flip but to be focusing on it beforehand is not the state of mind town has here.

And re: Noraa's claim, you were defending her despite her explicitly lied about her role. Absolutely, as in the Tywin game, we all know that town can shit the bed this hard. But you're talking about it with a level of certainty that is unnatural for town to have. And as you saw in that game, the wagon on the village idiot was mostly town, and his biggest defenders were scum. This looks very, very similar to me.

[Kasumeat]

@Kasumeat before I proceed, what is your reason for playing mafia?

Mostly because I like to feel clever.

[Kasumeat]

You?

[Gamma Emerald]

why is scum nokill any more silly a theory than usual?

where was the followup? what was the point? why not kill the ic?

i mean
no kill makes a tonne of sense if they're gambiting today

why are you being all subtle here lmao
obviously yes my claim could be that. and obviously im answering this question fmpov, which is what you were trying to understand in the first place.

i'm kinda surprised as either alignment you're playing hard this phase but just utterly not acknowledging the value of a scum gambit
i appreciate you're pushing your perspective but this feels disingenuous

You are basically trying to get Bulge to say “I could be scum”. Self-awareness on a habitual level (saying you do something as X alignment) is one thing but that brand of self-admittance starts to look like perspective slipping, and I highly dislike you trying to force Bulge to display that perspective. Bulge’s response looks exactly like I would expect town who knows the point has no effective basis would act, similar to how town might respond to a fake guilty. He can’t even start to process the validity of the point because it comes from an idea he knows is false. As such there’s no reason to entertain it.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Kasumeat before I proceed, what is your reason for playing mafia?

Mostly because I like to feel clever.

You?

So you actively try to do well, then? Because your attempts to sort me say otherwise. You seem content to push the same shitty logic on me as last time, seeing as between my two posts towards you I checked your play in the other game and you tried to call me “scum who was trying to appear stupid”, to paraphrase your argument that resulted in one of my past sig quotes. And now here you seem to be trying to push the idea that I “know too much”. It seems to me at this point your scumread on me boils to playstyle, so you need to realize that and dump that logic from your brain, because it’s not valid. I don’t remember if I cared about the flip but whether I did or did not, there was that ongoing thread of me trying to get a bead on what MCat was seeing from Pooky, and I wanted to acknowledge “yes this actually does make a dent in my thought process, I’m not being unreasonable”. For Noraa, as I said I had just used similar play from Noraa in another game as an excuse to miselim her. As such I had insider knowledge of her behavior. You’re right that I knew something extra, but it was because of meta, not because I am scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Gamma something that hasn't been addressed is why you pushed hard to convince blitzo to push me in the hood last night when you yourself havent pushed me at all and had been calling me town as recently as yesterday.

Because he was being very loud about not being confident in anything and I was trying to give him a push forward, plus I agree on the read but didn’t want to push it myself given my charisma only seems to kick in when I’m dead wrong.

This is stinky smelly poo.

Blitzo does this jive with your understanding? You seem to have been saying that it was gamma who had the read and pushed you into pushing it. Is that true? Am I misreading that?

[Thestatusquo]

@Kasumeat before I proceed, what is your reason for playing mafia?

Mostly because I like to feel clever.

I asked you a question about your thoughts on my reaction to bulge. I'd like an answer please when you get a chance.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma something that hasn't been addressed is why you pushed hard to convince blitzo to push me in the hood last night when you yourself havent pushed me at all and had been calling me town as recently as yesterday.

Because he was being very loud about not being confident in anything and I was trying to give him a push forward, plus I agree on the read but didn’t want to push it myself given my charisma only seems to kick in when I’m dead wrong.

This is stinky smelly poo.

Blitzo does this jive with your understanding? You seem to have been saying that it was gamma who had the read and pushed you into pushing it. Is that true? Am I misreading that?

He had the read the entire game, I presented my points to help him firm it up to a point where I’d figure he’d be willing to push it
I am 100% aware of how shady that sounds but I legit was tired of driving the game after I had missed three times in a row, on lims that all probably happened because I pushed for them (I tried to push an alternative to Pooky vs. Noraa D1, I put out the meta wall on Noraa D2, and I opted to lim Panzer over Pooky and tried to get everyone to consolidate on Panzer).