You are correct.In post 2602, Menalque wrote:I could be slightly wrong here bc I didn’t follow that closely after I got banned but I don’t think it was his *actions* that falsely mechcleared him as it was bad setup spec, maybe S_S can help out on this tho, or lili herself?
Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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The problem with doing this is then you pretty much have to claim cop. And skitter can tell you how well that goes :3In post 2612, Menalque wrote:My priority there would always be denying town the copIt's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Mena, do you know if skitter would be more open minded to lilith!town as town here? I can relate to the idea of knowing how to read someone and trusting your read in them 100%, but if there are other people in the game that also know how to read lilith, it doesn't make atonof sense to hold on to the read this long right? Idk, we're getting into the problem of people knowing each other's meta better than me, and generally being better scumhunters, but I wanna know if I wrote skitter off as town too early. Especially if this is true:
I think my reasons for TRing skitter were somewhat lazy tbh.In post 2616, Menalque wrote:normally you call out when people are TRing you for bad reasons but I don’t think I’ve seen you do that here-
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petapan Survivor
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jailkeeper's a strong role and has obvious benefits for scum in acting as a roleblock while denying town a protective, it took me looking at 2 old games to find an instance of scum taking it high in the draft (pick number 2). i don't think the role selection is necessarily clearing and don't townread her on content but i'm getting the vote i want more right now.
kind of sort of feel like skitter would not pursue a target so singlemindedly as scum but that's more on the idea that most people would pivot off if it became clear it wasn't viable, don't have an idea if that thing would be in her wheelhouse or notfree crypto-
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petapan Survivor
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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Wtf is GIn post 2567, Menalque wrote:VOTE: dunn
this is de facto G-1 with NM in the game, let’s get an intent on dunnAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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yeah 2/10, would not recommendIn post 2626, Something_Smart wrote:
The problem with doing this is then you pretty much have to claim cop. And skitter can tell you how well that goes :3In post 2612, Menalque wrote:My priority there would always be denying town the copShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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@mena @infinity this bit is why i don't feel like it's a super generic/bad townread on meIn post 2536, Infinity 324 wrote:she's been really transparent and the interaction with mena during d2 felt really T/T to me
there's a bit more nuance here than just like generic ~super obvtown, has nuance~ etc
and i can understand objectively how someone might come to that conclusion about the me/mena interactions ^ShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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it is, but i don't think i would be doing it here as scumIn post 2628, petapan wrote:kind of sort of feel like skitter would not pursue a target so singlemindedly as scum but that's more on the idea that most people would pivot off if it became clear it wasn't viable, don't have an idea if that thing would be in her wheelhouse or notShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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VOTE: daveShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Guillotine minus oneIn post 2630, Not_Mafia wrote:
Wtf is GIn post 2567, Menalque wrote:VOTE: dunn
this is de facto G-1 with NM in the game, let’s get an intent on dunn"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I'm torn between following two basic principles.
One basic principle is that you don't pressure suspected TPRs because they have greater utility on average than non-PRs. Especially in a game like this, you give them room to operate.
The other basic principle works like "duck typing" in programming. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. Someone who isn't scumhunting, especially those making an effort to be present but not scumhunt, are typically scum. My gold standard for this is people either not expressing scumreads, or saying things about alignment opinions but never giving a real reason.
By the TPR principle I'm explicitly against pressuring the top 5-6 draft picks early in the game,regardless of behavior. They can be the last elims because the ones left standing are the ones most likely to be scum. If we have a doc we may get lucky and have more no-kill nights, extending the game to the point where a pure mechanical solve is possible. If we have 1-shots that are more useful the smaller the player list gets, we give them room and don't out them so that scum don't know who the real danger is.
By the not scumhunting principle, I'm being pinged by Dunnstral, Something_Smart, and Best Bird. 2/3 of those are especially annoying because people explicitly townread them for things that I would consider to be NAI at best and explicitly scumtells in most players. Not_Mafia will take his slot from a "weird but could be town" read straight to this category. The conflict between this principle and the TPR principle is obviously largest in Dunnstral.
I tend to SR people who don't acknowledge the TPR principle. Hoopla is a prime candidate for this award. I really don't give a shit what the numbers say about scum doubling or not doubling. The TPR principle overrides that. If you don't have an explicit reason to scumread a presumed TPR, you don't yeet them, period. One thing gives me pause here, and that's the "protect via suspecting" strategy. Scum will choose not to NK people that they think are easy miselims. I have to acknowledge that some players purposely "suspect" the players they have identified as likely TPRs so that scum won't kill them as universal town reads.
What this all boils down to is thinking for today (and possibly tomorrow) that we should eliminate either the soft guilty from N1 to rule it out, or an explicitly scummy or not scumhunting player from the later part of the draft. The only scenario that can actually burn us with this strategy is all 3 scum in the early part because they all picked low unique numbers and town got extremely unlucky to not double any of the scum low numbers. I'm not unwilling to eliminate Dunnstral because I can see him playing this way as scum, but I'm concerned about it being too early from a pure mechanical point of view.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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*checks top 5-6 draft picks*In post 2637, davesaz wrote:By the TPR principle I'm explicitly against pressuring the top 5-6 draft picks early in the game, regardless of behavior.
c o n v e n i e n t"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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If you know this is going to happen, doesn't it make it NAI?In post 2637, davesaz wrote:Not_Mafia will take his slot from a "weird but could be town" read straight to this category.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Talking about it at all helps scum. Nice job.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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we all like collectively have ignored the possibility of 1s commuter being the reason the kill went missing n1, i'm noting
i'm not super vibing dave!scum tbh but idk where to vote rnShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx-
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skitter30 she/herLast Laughshe/her
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VOTE: hoopla let's try thisShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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You literally just saw her do this as town though, so whether you agree or disagree with it, it shouldn't have a bearing on her alignment.In post 2637, davesaz wrote:I tend to SR people who don't acknowledge the TPR principle. Hoopla is a prime candidate for this award.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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- Location: Upstate New York
But forcing town to claim PR early is bad.In post 2638, Infinity 324 wrote:Forcing scum to claim PR early is good.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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I did so because commuter has literally never been successfully taken in any run of this setup before.In post 2645, skitter30 wrote:we all like collectively have ignored the possibility of 1s commuter being the reason the kill went missing n1, i'm notingIt's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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