Open 800 - Donner Party | Game Over

[Aristophanes]

BTFO

???

[superbowl9]

BTFO

???

Blown the fuck out, like destroyed basically

[Aristophanes]

Gotcha! I've never heard that in any form until now lol

As a response to your actual post there, I have 2 answers I suppose.

First, I don't think you are okay with "any miselim" but your push for "anyone but me" (which is what "just let me survive to D2" means) is meh and your personal survival should not trump town's survival. This can very easily be scummy, and if it is not, I think you need to reevaluate your gameplay a bit. Because I mean, everyone wants to live another day. Play in a way that makes us want to have you around another day.

Second, despite DT calling a townblock, I think those things are very dangerous and am willing to reevaluate a read on any one of the people supposedly in it. Townblocks are notoriously easy to infiltrate and I don't put a lot of stock into them unless they provide solid results reliably. I don't think you have to worry as much there.

I guess there's a third thing which is you going against the grain a bit. And I guess that's a valid argument as less likely to come from scum. But I'm not sold and it alone isn't enough to change my read.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m also willing to reconsider within my townblock but it would need to be a good case. And some people, like Chaos and Ari, are strictly off limits.

[Chaos Triforce]

Why am I suddenly a TR from multiple people?

I did nothing between then and now.

-nornor

[superbowl9]

Gotcha! I've never heard that in any form until now lol

As a response to your actual post there, I have 2 answers I suppose.

First, I don't think you are okay with "any miselim" but your push for "anyone but me" (which is what "just let me survive to D2" means) is meh and your personal survival should not trump town's survival. This can very easily be scummy, and if it is not, I think you need to reevaluate your gameplay a bit. Because I mean, everyone wants to live another day. Play in a way that makes us want to have you around another day.

Second, despite DT calling a townblock, I think those things are very dangerous and am willing to reevaluate a read on any one of the people supposedly in it. Townblocks are notoriously easy to infiltrate and I don't put a lot of stock into them unless they provide solid results reliably. I don't think you have to worry as much there.

I guess there's a third thing which is you going against the grain a bit. And I guess that's a valid argument as less likely to come from scum. But I'm not sold and it alone isn't enough to change my read.

Yep, I'll give you a response to your case later tonight, just some food for thought. And I think the "anyone but me" thing is a bit of a misconception here, I'm only focusing on people I want to eliminate, so of course you haven't heard much about my townreads. I've shown resistance to what would have been an easy chaos wagon to hop onto, disagreed with johnny's Tswift scumread (idk if that was in thread or in my head), townread BM, etc. etc. Imo I have not had more targets this game than say Gamma, it's just more obvious because I'm targeting controversial slots. I've only advocated for the group of 3 and a pob long compromise.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why am I suddenly a TR from multiple people?

I did nothing between then and now.

-nornor

I re-aligned my sensors on you and filtered out some junk signals. The result was a beacon of towniness.

[Tayl0r Swift]

You know what, I’m gonna call this out rn. I really don’t think Chaos hydra is scum atp. Get off of them.

I'm like 100% confident of this now btw

What caused the boost?

A minor epiphany that my standards in a certain regard were too high.

curious about this tbh

[Tayl0r Swift]

*Sigh*
This game lost my interest super fast. I dont know how to get interested again. someone help

-nornorisreallyboredofthisgameatm

im here noraa!!! we can solve this thing together. lets hydra. but instead of one account and discord we will have two role PMs and just use this thread. what does your role PM say?

[Chaos Triforce]

*Sigh*
This game lost my interest super fast. I dont know how to get interested again. someone help

-nornorisreallyboredofthisgameatm

im here noraa!!! we can solve this thing together. lets hydra. but instead of one account and discord we will have two role PMs and just use this thread. what does your role PM say?

Sounds a bit role fishy. Mine happens to be the color green but anything else, I will not be revealing.

-nornorthegreenapple

[Chaos Triforce]

I re-aligned my sensors on you and filtered out some junk signals. The result was a beacon of towniness.

This can go in my wiki. it sounds so beautiful.

-wikinornor

[Gamma Emerald]

curious about this tbh

I was expecting Noraa to have certain information about my behavior in this game and how it correlated to another game. When I realized I was wrong, I understood her feelings on me much better and once that barrier was gone my read on her became strongly town.

[Tayl0r Swift]

*Sigh*
This game lost my interest super fast. I dont know how to get interested again. someone help

-nornorisreallyboredofthisgameatm

im here noraa!!! we can solve this thing together. lets hydra. but instead of one account and discord we will have two role PMs and just use this thread. what does your role PM say?

Sounds a bit role fishy. Mine happens to be the color green but anything else, I will not be revealing.

-nornorthegreenapple

thats all i wanted. mine too. wanna pseudohydra?

[Noraa]

wanna pseudohydra?

squiggles might get jealous :/

-bubbles

[Chaos Triforce]

wanna pseudohydra?

squiggles might get jealous :/

-bubbles

WHY THE FJSHDFKKSDFKKDKSKDFKSKDKFKSKFSKDSKKFKD

[superbowl9]

Spoiler: Pre-1290 Analysis

Also why's it scaring you?

(Typed and deleted non game related stuff, y'all are tricky)

I thought gamma was either just wrong or scum purposely being wrong, but now that he's starting to be right I'm not sure if he's scum starting to pivot to the right position now that he's realizing he won't be able to ride the wave of DT/guillo or if he's just realizing how bad his stuff earlier was

This is shade on a fairly townread player and doing that this early in the game is a good way to sow the seeds of doubt for a miselim later on. It feels like you're not trying to sort him, just dropping a subtle diss for later.

I think this was one of my posts that actually shows sorting more than others. I make an actual substantive point here which is that Gamma moving towards my reads (which he continues to do) is unexpected. I'm trying to evaluate how that fits in with my current read on him, which I explain in the post. Not sure where you saw a driveby shade you're characterizing, as I'm actually almost moving away from my SL there? Also not sure where this "widely townread" thing came from, gamma has drawn quite a bit of fos this game.

Okay enough getting actual content out of me I'm trying to survive the night here

This is just disgusting. That's not how anyone should play, and in a game with a 3p and hidden NK flips, this (fake?) townslip isn't even towny.
Getting info and discussion is town's main power, and you are choosing not to use it such that you survive. Honestly not a fan at all.

Yes this strategy is gambit-y but my plan was to challenge (or even break if possible) the guillo/DT/gamma grip over the game while paying attention to how the less active players act so that tomorrow I can make my pushes of them actually effective. Look at it as almost a pocket scum to get their guard down, then give them a push when it will actually work because DT isn't clogging the thread with rants. I think you can tell by my lighthearted tone here that I know I'm doing something unconventional and not taking it too serious, because at the end of the day I still have to play D1 to some extent. If I was actually going all in on this I'd be playing like pob long.

Guys I checked my meta from 2012 offsite and actually in Thanksgiving Thrifting Hunt 15 I made this exact same play, it came from scum. Not sure how much clearer evidence you want

This is such a fucking weird clapback to Gamma and I do not see the point of it. Discrediting Meta just makesthe meta more believable. Like pointing out why it might be wrong "that game was different because {setup, size, mental state, etc} is one thing but this is just...like the reaction to gaining a vote here is scummy and it made my raise an eyebrow at your slot.

I think people are thinking this was meant to be a direct response or "debunk" to Gamma's meta point on me. I've always thought meta arguments were laughable, so whenever I see them being used a lot (like gamma has done this game) I will poke a jab at them, understanding that most don't really have an issue with their use. Since I view these points as largely irrelevant, I think my mocking response was appropriate. I can get into a discussion of why I've always thought meta arguments were terrible but that discussion has already happened too many times to count on this site, and if the point was strong I would have actually responded seriously.

Well you are super wrong about me, i suggest you looking somewhere else. If you won't, then case me instead of just calling me scum. Or do you just expect people to take your word for it?

The reason she won’t do that is because she knows you will just take her points and “destroy them with facts and logic”. A lot of newer players want like a point by point case they can tear down to feel like they’ve won an argument or interaction, but you can literally technicality and overanalyze your way out of ANY point someone can bring up in this game.

It’s just not an efficient or fun way to play, so a lot of people use more broad terminology and clarify when necessary, and will debate more on the spirit of an argument rather than trying to think up arguments to prove themselves right. Why would anyone with that approach bother to give a nuanced explanation when they know the spirit of that message will not be relevant to the one responding? Yet you view it as “they have no argument! They must have backed off because they were scared of interaction!”

I know this because I used to be that player. I also know this post probably won’t convince you of what I’m saying. But if you’re looking for an explanation as to why I’ve “shaded” you and DT, this is it. Have fun destroying it with facts and logic

Answering for someone else sucks dude. I also noted your stepping in in defense of TayTay here as possible buddy interactions.

Like I said I don't pretend to speak for Taylor, I probably could have clarified more when I wrote the post that I was hijacking this question to make my own larger point to Guillo about game health because it seemed like a great opportunity to address it. If you read my post and the followup to it you'll see that it's not a defense of Taylor, it's a critique of Guillo. Would also like to mention that this would be such smoothbrained buddy play that it almost removes any partner equity that Taylor and I could have. I'm sad you think my scumgame would be this obvious

Spoiler: Post-1290 Analysis

What do you know about the reason she will not do it, did she tell you in chat? Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

So you are saying that if someone accuses me of scum, I shouldnt try to debunk their theory to prove that I'm not? And instead what? Let the accuser lead a wagon to miseliminate me?
When you said that i can “literally overanalyze my way out of any point someone can bring up in this game”, what did you mean? Can you show me examples where i've done this?

These are all legit non rhetorical questions.

It could be that taylor completely disagrees with everything I said (although I suspect she doesn’t) I just saw it as a good opportunity to hijack and explain myself a little

Your reply is exactly what I mean, I can give you examples but will you just “debunk” them? What’s the point? It will take a lot of effort from me to paint you a picture of what I’m talking about but why would I do that when there’s a good chance you’re not going to be looking at it to understand, but looking at it to “debunk”? <-that’s your example right there

*NOTE: Nestled spoiler eliminated by myself as they break posts and whatnot*

See, you didn not answer multiple questions here, including ones related simply to how Taylor may react to you commenting for them, and instead criticized Guillotina for playing the game. The point is to debate and discuss things. I'm not saying you have to search for examples but you should have something in mind if you brought up the points, right?
Telling Guillotina you are refusing to engage them because they will analyze your points and poke holes where they see them is bad, weak, and potentially scummy play. Instead, why not engage them, poke holes in the holes they've pokes, and prove your points that way? Or is it because you're worried you won't have a rebuttle and will be outed as scum?
Like, even if you aren't going toconvince Guillotina on things, perhaps you can sway the rest of the town to believe you in things. If it's not worth your effort that's probably because you don't really have anything of value to say imo.

I think you're missing my point here as well, because if you got it you'd see that going point by point through Guillo's arguments is exactly what I'm saying is bad for game health. Someone like BM can argue tit for tat with DT for 10 pages not dropping a point, and it works for him (more power to ya brother! ). I don't give a fuck whether I'm "right" or get a point for winning an argument. I could easily have gone on for pages with Guillo or DT at any point in this game but I don't think that's good for game health. This is the point I'm making to Guillo - I'm not going to waste my time in the endless "well technically I'm right because..." circle because it's not as productive as just addressing what needs to be addressed, even if that results in what seems like someone has "scored a hit" on me. You feed into this very mentality by asking if I'm somehow scared that my logic won't hold up. We're not going to get anything done if we just bicker about minor points that if you take a step back are honestly meaningless. It's about engaging honestly with ideas that you think are important vs. debatelording so you can feed your own ego. If you think there's an important point in that post that I didn't address then please point it out for me, otherwise you're simply missing the whole point of my post.

If you think I’m an elitist preaching down to you idrc

, I’m trying to explain to you why I’ve said what I’ve said. I’m not going to get into an argument with you about this but yes,

I do view you as a threat to my chances at catching scum this game which is why I’m fine elimming you even if I don’t have a great read on your alignment.

I would say this if you were acting the same way regardless of your experience level, but like I said I used to play that way and know it to come from newer players more often.

The underlined is a huge eww with an eyeroll
The bolded is just a PL and if one of your best moves after what's probably 50 pages by now is a PL I have to wonder if you are even trying. That shouldn't be viable still.
It once again seems like you are slating them for an easy Elim later in the game, as you are with Gamma.

Someone else commented on that first part, but I genuinely don't care what you think of me, I'm more interested in catching scum. That's my point with the earlier post, I don't care if you think I've been "owned" because I didn't respond to an insult either, I'm more concerned with not dragging our game quality down any further than it already has been lowered.
I already explained my strategy with trying to break up those 3 so we can get valuable pushes in later (which is pointless if I'm not alive tomorrow, hence that strategy), but I want to re-empasize one thing here.

Is this really how you think I set up miselims?

What type of absolute buffoon would I have to be to think this is a sly way to chain elim?? It's kind of insulting that you think this low of my ability.

That is why I say that your are at elitist arrogant town player or (add to that a selfish one too), because you are willing to yeet another town regardless of him being a PR or not, just because he is a threat to YOUR chances at catching scum. This is a team deduction and cooperation game

Why would I not want a player gone that hurts my wincon? I've made my position known and if the majority don't agree then you won't get eliminated. Let's compromise, who do you think we can work together to elim? You've been pushing me most of the game so I don't know why you expect me to work with you on that...

Once again, preshading and colouring the answer before it is made. Classic.

I would like to claim my "Told you so" points now because he actually did respond to this with me as his answer in 1342 But seriously, not sure what your problem is with this? It's meant to show him that the reason we're not working together and cooperating as he suggests is because we disagree and want to elim each other - that's why I know what his answer will be. If he actually something for us to cooperate on I'm happy to do it, I'm not just being a dick. I'm not going to work with him to self-elim though

One more point about the point-by-point thing I'm against in that whole guillo interaction, I'm obviously not against using a "facts and logic" approach or addressing something point by point, I just did it here. There's a time and place for it though, and if that's your approach to every game interaction you're not trying to honestly have a conversation or honestly evaluate things, you're just boosting your ego by being "right". So I don't wanna hear "bUt SuPeRbOwL!! YOU SAID DONT DEBATELORD" from anyone except taylor after this

[Gamma Emerald]

*Sigh*
This game lost my interest super fast. I dont know how to get interested again. someone help

-nornorisreallyboredofthisgameatm

im here noraa!!! we can solve this thing together. lets hydra. but instead of one account and discord we will have two role PMs and just use this thread. what does your role PM say?

Sounds a bit role fishy. Mine happens to be the color green but anything else, I will not be revealing.

-nornorthegreenapple

I’m sure the green has a delicious smell. Now let’s flip someone with a candy red! Purple grape isn’t a bad smell to flip either! >:D

[Aristophanes]

wanna pseudohydra?

squiggles might get jealous :/

-bubbles

WHY THE FJSHDFKKSDFKKDKSKDFKSKDKFKSKFSKDSKKFKD

I mean, I'm jealous.

Am I not even being considered here??

[Chaos Triforce]

I’m sure the green has a delicious smell.

Green apple is the best flavor EVER. Just like Green apple > Cherry, green pms > red pms.

[Chaos Triforce]

I mean, I'm jealous.

u can be strawberry jelly

[catboi]

Taylor just slid her hand so far into noraa's pocket that she committed a crime in 49 states.

[Tayl0r Swift]

oh jeez not like that. noraa's my mafia sister.

[catboi]

Someone else commented on that first part, but I genuinely don't care what you think of me, I'm more interested in catching scum. That's my point with the earlier post, I don't care if you think I've been "owned" because I didn't respond to an insult either, I'm more concerned with not dragging our game quality down any further than it already has been lowered.
I already explained my strategy with trying to break up those 3 so we can get valuable pushes in later (which is pointless if I'm not alive tomorrow, hence that strategy), but I want to re-empasize one thing here. Is this really how you think I set up miselims? What type of absolute buffoon would I have to be to think this is a sly way to chain elim?? It's kind of insulting that you think this low of my ability.

My issue is I still don't understand why your emphasis is on breaking up a group of players vs actually finding scum. You have all this concern over the DT/Guillo/Gamma group but the only points you raise against them are being problematic later in the game, not actually being suspect. I don't understand why that's your fixation like it's going to be some game dominating force when there's a decent chance some of them just die.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m sure the green has a delicious smell.

Green apple is the best flavor EVER. Just like Green apple > Cherry, green pms > red pms.

Eh I don’t entirely agree wrt candies, but I’ve also been soured on Green Apple since I get shafted with it all the time. No one else in my family will even eat green apple candies. A good Granny Smith, however, is righteous.

[Tayl0r Swift]

granny smiths are pretty much the most boring green apple. theyre like the vanilla of apples.