Large Normal 230 - Game Over

[innocentvillager]

At first they claim i'm town and Nero is scum. I question their Nero read, they stay adamant about it. Then they suddenly start changing their read. Now they think i'm scum and nero is town, and then they start saying both me and Nero is scum. (Without referencing any kind of explanation as to what makes us scummy and an likely scum team) And completely ignoring the reasons he said i was town earlier. (Which weren't pretty good to begin with)

this just seems like someone who's constantly changing their opinion? which FL did like, every two pages as town in the only game I played with him? do you really think that this is conclusive evidence?

If that's not scummy for FL then what is? How would scum!him play this differently?

rather than what he *would* do, there are things that like, competent scum *don't really do* often because it's just tanking their image unnecessarily

specifically FL, who is proud of his self-perceived ability to play as scum

it's certainly not impossible this is part of some weird level 3 wifom pocket on players like me who have seen town!him do this but I'm willing to look for horses when hear hoofbeats, not zebras

im more extreme than ABR here because my opinion is that the "fakehammer" was not NAI, it was town!indicative mostly for this reason

[Nero Cain]

I have an interesting question. If you town read both Norway and I (we are both scumreading Boon) and you are a "POE" player. Why are you so against the Boon elimination?

[innocentvillager]

It's very tiring to debate ABR because he consistently brings up theories that are presented as conclusive evidence, and just the fact that you're arguing against him means he can argue that you implicitly agree to his flawed premise just by entertaining and humoring the thought.

it's ok norway! i will whiteknight and defend you from the mean abr!

Is that sarcasm? I can defend myself just fine.

I can deathtunnel you too if you'd prefer that, certainly wouldn't be the first time I've done that

[Albert B. Rampage]

I can deathtunnel you too if you'd prefer that, certainly wouldn't be the first time I've done that

I dare you.

[innocentvillager]

I have an interesting question. If you town read both Norway and I (we are both scumreading Boon) and you are a "POE" player. Why are you so against the Boon elimination?

i don't think people are as good at reading others as they think they are especially D1 and I independently TR flavor

even when I say you guys are like my top tier TRs, im still only like, 85-90% that you are town, it would hypocritical to assume that my own reads are the shit (which they are certainly not)

[innocentvillager]

the fact that you have an incorrect scumread on me also doesn't help, but it's not like, a huge factor

[Nero Cain]

the fact that you have an incorrect scumread on me also doesn't help, but it's not like, a huge factor

ok, look guy. ppl are seemingly town reading you for your early questioning of Guil but I thought it was null @ best and pretty useless. You then went inactive for stretch of time. Then you kinda magically have scum reads on ulmaut and Glitch wich you never mentioned which just so happen to coincide with an ABR POE. FMPOV you have like 0 scumhunting and that just rings like not real towny to me. The "but I'm a POE player!" kinda makes me think of Titus/Boon type scum play that argue early game uselessness b/c they are "VCA/late game players" respectively.

[Nero Cain]

like I'm prob a little overzealous with my hunting @ times but your play just doesn't make me go "oh thats townie!"

I'm also a little confused when you say you are a "POE" player should you really be caring

THAT

much about flipping Boon?

[Nero Cain]

I am also not a big fan of you not voluntarily giving your reads. That just seems a little shady to me.

[Nero Cain]

lol, with this argument we should just eliminate people who claim VT (and by your metric isn't "very good"). And yes, claiming VT at this point in the game even by itself is kind of a massive towntell, because VTs will almost always claim VT, scum will usually claim PR (not saying they don't claim VT, but, conditional probability etc etc)

I also feel like this is a misrepresentation of my argument. I'm not arguing lynch all VTs I'm saying that eliminating

THIS

scummy VT claim is a good play today.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Forget Nero.

He's had the same 5 reads since page 16.

Pretentious
Muh
Taylor
Me
IV

[Albert B. Rampage]

He won't change his mind if we go another 60 or 120 pages. Just ignore him.

[Nero Cain]

y do I HAVE to change my reads when we don't really have new info or flipz?

[Albert B. Rampage]

You don't have to do anything, Nero. I'm advising my friend that he can't change the mind of a stubborn person.

[innocentvillager]

the fact that you have an incorrect scumread on me also doesn't help, but it's not like, a huge factor

ok, look guy. ppl are seemingly town reading you for your early questioning of Guil but I thought it was null @ best and pretty useless. You then went inactive for stretch of time. Then you kinda magically have scum reads on ulmaut and Glitch wich you never mentioned which just so happen to coincide with an ABR POE. FMPOV you have like 0 scumhunting and that just rings like not real towny to me. The "but I'm a POE player!" kinda makes me think of Titus/Boon type scum play that argue early game uselessness b/c they are "VCA/late game players" respectively.

lol, im not asking you to townread me nor do i think it's like crazy that you're not

literally all i was trying to say is the fact that you are scumreading me when I know I am town makes me trust your reads this game just like, a little bit less, shouldn't have even said it tbh lol sorry

i am neither a VCA player nor a late game player

i townread Flavor, so I am defending him, I have eliminated him from my current scumpool with my process, also known as PoE

pedit: ill keep that in mind ABR, i haven't played with a lot of you before

[Nero Cain]

You don't have to do anything, Nero. I'm advising my friend that he can't change the mind of a stubborn person.

Aren't you scum reading me though?

[Albert B. Rampage]

You are so deep inside your confirmation bias since the start of the game that I know better than to engage with you. Nothing will change.

I don't scumread you Nero. Pretentious does.

[Nero Cain]

i am neither a VCA player nor a late game player

I know but arguing that you are a POE player is very very similar, no?

What's your current POE?

[innocentvillager]

lol, with this argument we should just eliminate people who claim VT (and by your metric isn't "very good"). And yes, claiming VT at this point in the game even by itself is kind of a massive towntell, because VTs will almost always claim VT, scum will usually claim PR (not saying they don't claim VT, but, conditional probability etc etc)

I also feel like this is a misrepresentation of my argument. I'm not arguing lynch all VTs I'm saying that eliminating

THIS

scummy VT claim is a good play today.

sure

I just want to emphasize that I don't feel like the "VT" part matters that much

specifically, my viewpoint is simply that:

when the wagonee claims PR, they are more likely to be scum, but if we're wrong and miselim them, there's a bigger loss to be had
conversely, when the wagonee claims VT, they are less likely to be scum, but if we're wrong and miselim them, there's a smaller loss to be had

don't want to turn this into theory discussion though

[Nero Cain]

I don't scumread you Nero

y not? you said if I scum read you then you'd scum read me so y aren't u scum reading me?

[innocentvillager]

i am neither a VCA player nor a late game player

I know but arguing that you are a POE player is very very similar, no?

What's your current POE?

{TheDuke, DGB, muh, may, non, Umlaut, Glitch}

[innocentvillager]

im aware and i don't love that this is mostly just the people who haven't been posting much, but uh, it's good enough for D1

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't scumread you Nero

y not? you said if I scum read you then you'd scum read me so y aren't u scum reading me?

I lie to test reactions. You haven't been scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I set a trap for Taylor by saying she could bargain for my vote on you, and I threatened you, but I have townread you this entire game without outwardly saying it.

[Nero Cain]

So he's a claimed VT and the loss would be small but the reward of lynching him is great. With a big reward and a small possible loss he sounds like a perfect flip candidate, no?

like I just feel like his whole vt claim is so he can argue that he wouldn't claim VT as scum.