Open 802: Jungle Oligarchy [Game Over]

[Taly]

137 and 138

Klyne

Why is your read on me based on one post where I townlean

Marashu

?

And your scumpool consists of people who are bussing each other in both scumteams if it were realistic, do you think this is a plausible solve?

I ask because I get the impression that your reads are based around controlling what people should think versus a personal solve from you.

The

"unadultered NOOB SCUM FEAR"

is too hyperbolic for me to be convinced by your read there.

Taly, Murdercat is stuck at hard null for me, sell me on your townlean there

Murdercat

in 82 had the ability to tear into my 79 self-meta/link spew and instead they took it in good faith.

They have good reason to be paranoia about me

(because I duped them me OP as scum hehe)

but their

"I'm going with my heart a bit here"

feels genuine, and if it were scum trying to pocket me, I feel like there would be MORE or LESS caution in solving me.

Your townpool is basically what I'm thinking too.

Regarding your wagon, what is your impression of the growth it had in a short period of time?

All alignments were on it, probably. I don't think any votes were serious when posed, and it's disingenuous for votes to remain because it feels like justifying an in-context-RVS-vote is lazy.

Who are the 2 people you like on the wagon,

clidd

? 210

Is this post more readable clidd? I can adjust further if necesssary.

Spoiler:

Some Degree Of Town Read: Clidd,

Marashu

, Klick, Murder

Do NOT do this

His back-off from me was the freaking scummiest thing all game, even beating Titus. The way he unvoted was absolute unadulterated NOOB SCUM FEAR.

He thought "Oh shit, maybe I was a bit over-performative in the way I described my reads, I guess from now on I'll be more vague because he thought that was scummy, whew"

Marashu isn't likely scum. Marashu lurks a fair amount as scum. I could be wrong because even scum have a reason to hunt here, but I strongly don't think he is.

I think you're just attacking everyone against you.

hmm ok

You think I'm being pocketed by

Murder, Titus

, or

ORAM

?

I ask about each person here for different reasons.

[clidd]

I was talking about MC and Klick on post 210, Taly.

Do you think the actual pace ingame says something?

[Taly]

I was talking about MC and Klick on post 210, Taly.

Do you think the actual pace ingame says something?

not this early. it will depend more on the plist's style.

im so busy irl this week and next week that im happy as long as i can keep up with the game.

i extend my question posed to

Plus

, to you. am i mislead on my townreads?

and what do you think of my assessment of

klyne's

137/138?

[MURDERCAT]

Spoiler: Taly votes

Ego will be reading stuff later probably

VOTE: Taly!

VOTE: taly
murdercat townblock activated

Also if someone could explain how to actually approach this setup that would be great. I'm guessing wolves first and try to go into good nightless numbers is ideal because there won't be cross kills? But I'm not sure how we actually manage to control that

We don't? I'm not sure what you're asking here. We hunt scum, and try to figure it out from there.

VOTE: Taly

Hello old friends and new friends!

I missed you...

VOTE: Taly

VOTE: Taly up the votes, we got ourselves a wagon

Hahahahaha

go big or go home!

VOTE: Taly

now that's E-1

So the taly wagon formed really quickly, which to me says there's probably scum on it just from probability. So now compare to that to Titus votes.

Spoiler: Titus votes

Hi everyone.
VOTE: Titus
The only person I've played with before, on my old account. She was town in one game years ago, so she's obviously going to be scum in this one.

Hopefully this will go better than our last two attempts

Vaguely positive natural feelings from this response? MURDERCAT in general feels active and the right amount of comfortable for this early on, he can be town.

Hello old friends and new friends!

Hello! you're at least 40% of the reason I signed up for this.


So something to keep in mind for this setup is that there are

five

scum. If you're town, in your typical Mini Normal you've got a 1/4 chance of randomly hitting scum, but in this setup those numbers are 5/12 instead. There's a whole lot of scum motivation being pushed around on every page compared to normal.

I'd wager Taly is more likely town than anything, with both scumteams contributing to the wagon somewhere.

VOTE: Titus
You clearly didn't care much about Taly being at E-1 considering you didn't remove your vote.

I lied I want to OMGUS Titus

VOTE: Titus

You are the best Taly

Focus on avoiding mislims.

This is close to my strategy which unfortunately tends to be "Focus on miselims"

This kind of tracks with something I noticed and was kind of pointing at in 40 and 41. Like your questions to me didn't really seem to have a purpose? Whereas I felt like in Kanna's game you were more precise in a way (which is the opposite of most players probably). It was weak so I didn't think it was worth commenting on but I thought I would mention it now that this post kind of prompts it. Maybe I will put in enough effort to read the games you linked if we both make it past the first couple of days. (Though I'll probably read the perfect scum win just for fun at some point.)

Anyway I am leaning to a TR on you and leaning to an SR on titus so

VOTE: Titus

Page 1>

- Ping on post 8 (mc), it is common sense to know that town only has scumhunt, while the scum side (maf, ww) needs to better understand the setup to be able to play properly.

- I didn't like Taly's answer very much and I can understand the increase in votes on him.

Page 2>

- I had a strange feeling reading Jackson's posts, but I don't classify it as ping.

- Positive impression of Klick and MC.

- Taly has not improved in the posts and I feel that Titus is very apathetic in the sense of WIM.

Page 3>

- BM, Klyne and PlusJOYED void.

- Delay on vote by Titus is towny.

Page 4>

- Um, I don't know how to read Taly.

And.. That's it. I don't think I will do more than that. Maybe I'll adapt to the real-time chat.

VOTE: Titus

I'm having many mixfeelings right now, but I want to sort this first ^

The timing here is interesting. The ORAM vote is whatever because that's the first one, but Klick and Klyne jump on to Titus. Klick specifically has the option of adding pressure to Taly and doesn't and Klyne moves from Taly to Titus. So it is kind of a counterwagon, but instead of picking up steam like I would expect if scum were looking to move off Taly it kind of stalls after our votes. And then there's this kind of defense of Titus that I feel like is happening in the thread.

Spoiler: Titus defense

That fake E-1 (and the follow-up post) felt pretty genuine.

What is your read on Titus?

Probably null, I just got home so I'm not putting much effort into the game yet fyi.

My "thoughts" earlier were that I wasn't really feeling the Titus wagon anymore, and I don't think she's especially likely to be scum. I left my vote on for a while to see what she'd do, since she hadn't posted in a few pages, and I wanted to see more from her. She's given more, and my vote no longer has a purpose.
UNVOTE:

As for being sheepy and agreeing with other people's ideas, well, guilty as charged. But I actually do agree with them, so I'm not going to say I disagree just for the sake of being original.

VOTE: Battle Mage
I feel like everyone has been leaving him alone like they're saving him for later, and I'd rather start figuring him out now.
What are your thoughts on, well, everyone besides taly? And do you SR me for the same reason as Titus, or for a different reason?

So generally speaking, I think that Titus is a really interesting slot in terms of the game state. At the very least I think there is less likely to be scum on the wagon and I think it's highly unlikely there are scum from both teams. It just kinda feels different to me compared to Taly wagon. That doesn't necessarily make Titus scum, but I think the defense of Titus that is happening isn't warranted. Like there's a few places that I called out Titus asking weird questions and looking through the iso again now there is nothing there that I think says town Titus to me.

This is what I was getting at when I said I wasn't looking at eliming Titus with my vote though. Basically I think this wagon is an important part of the game right now and it existing is helping me sort everyone. These interactions are helping me understand Titus to some degree but I'm particularly interested in how everyone else approaches it.

[MURDERCAT]

I didn't like PlusJOYED's pov much, but I would need someone who knows him better to "clear" me about the slot.

I have played with Plus twice and have tried to elim him both times I think

[clidd]

not this early. it will depend more on the plist's style.

im so busy irl this week and next week that im happy as long as i can keep up with the game.

i extend my question posed to

Plus

, to you. am i mislead on my townreads?

and what do you think of my assessment of

klyne's

137/138?

If your townreads stills the same as you said in post 136, maybe. What worries me is how you got to them, so it would be interesting for you to add a description (when you have more time and energy), something that would give me more security to check for a possible TL on your slot.

Regarding Klyne, I think that his reaction was exaggerated, but, as I said, I believe he is ''acting'' like a character (take a look in his posts when he was talking to Titus), which makes it difficult to assess his intention behind both two posts. I don't agree with your comment that his posts are trying to ''control what people should think'', but I agree that they are not so natural.

[clidd]

Spoiler: Taly votes

Ego will be reading stuff later probably

VOTE: Taly!

VOTE: taly
murdercat townblock activated

Also if someone could explain how to actually approach this setup that would be great. I'm guessing wolves first and try to go into good nightless numbers is ideal because there won't be cross kills? But I'm not sure how we actually manage to control that

We don't? I'm not sure what you're asking here. We hunt scum, and try to figure it out from there.

VOTE: Taly

Hello old friends and new friends!

I missed you...

VOTE: Taly

VOTE: Taly up the votes, we got ourselves a wagon

Hahahahaha

go big or go home!

VOTE: Taly

now that's E-1

So the taly wagon formed really quickly, which to me says there's probably scum on it just from probability. So now compare to that to Titus votes.

Spoiler: Titus votes

Hi everyone.
VOTE: Titus
The only person I've played with before, on my old account. She was town in one game years ago, so she's obviously going to be scum in this one.

Hopefully this will go better than our last two attempts

Vaguely positive natural feelings from this response? MURDERCAT in general feels active and the right amount of comfortable for this early on, he can be town.

Hello old friends and new friends!

Hello! you're at least 40% of the reason I signed up for this.


So something to keep in mind for this setup is that there are

five

scum. If you're town, in your typical Mini Normal you've got a 1/4 chance of randomly hitting scum, but in this setup those numbers are 5/12 instead. There's a whole lot of scum motivation being pushed around on every page compared to normal.

I'd wager Taly is more likely town than anything, with both scumteams contributing to the wagon somewhere.

VOTE: Titus
You clearly didn't care much about Taly being at E-1 considering you didn't remove your vote.

I lied I want to OMGUS Titus

VOTE: Titus

You are the best Taly

Focus on avoiding mislims.

This is close to my strategy which unfortunately tends to be "Focus on miselims"

This kind of tracks with something I noticed and was kind of pointing at in 40 and 41. Like your questions to me didn't really seem to have a purpose? Whereas I felt like in Kanna's game you were more precise in a way (which is the opposite of most players probably). It was weak so I didn't think it was worth commenting on but I thought I would mention it now that this post kind of prompts it. Maybe I will put in enough effort to read the games you linked if we both make it past the first couple of days. (Though I'll probably read the perfect scum win just for fun at some point.)

Anyway I am leaning to a TR on you and leaning to an SR on titus so

VOTE: Titus

Page 1>

- Ping on post 8 (mc), it is common sense to know that town only has scumhunt, while the scum side (maf, ww) needs to better understand the setup to be able to play properly.

- I didn't like Taly's answer very much and I can understand the increase in votes on him.

Page 2>

- I had a strange feeling reading Jackson's posts, but I don't classify it as ping.

- Positive impression of Klick and MC.

- Taly has not improved in the posts and I feel that Titus is very apathetic in the sense of WIM.

Page 3>

- BM, Klyne and PlusJOYED void.

- Delay on vote by Titus is towny.

Page 4>

- Um, I don't know how to read Taly.

And.. That's it. I don't think I will do more than that. Maybe I'll adapt to the real-time chat.

VOTE: Titus

I'm having many mixfeelings right now, but I want to sort this first ^

The timing here is interesting. The ORAM vote is whatever because that's the first one, but Klick and Klyne jump on to Titus. Klick specifically has the option of adding pressure to Taly and doesn't and Klyne moves from Taly to Titus. So it is kind of a counterwagon, but instead of picking up steam like I would expect if scum were looking to move off Taly it kind of stalls after our votes. And then there's this kind of defense of Titus that I feel like is happening in the thread.

Spoiler: Titus defense

That fake E-1 (and the follow-up post) felt pretty genuine.

What is your read on Titus?

Probably null, I just got home so I'm not putting much effort into the game yet fyi.

My "thoughts" earlier were that I wasn't really feeling the Titus wagon anymore, and I don't think she's especially likely to be scum. I left my vote on for a while to see what she'd do, since she hadn't posted in a few pages, and I wanted to see more from her. She's given more, and my vote no longer has a purpose.
UNVOTE:

As for being sheepy and agreeing with other people's ideas, well, guilty as charged. But I actually do agree with them, so I'm not going to say I disagree just for the sake of being original.

VOTE: Battle Mage
I feel like everyone has been leaving him alone like they're saving him for later, and I'd rather start figuring him out now.
What are your thoughts on, well, everyone besides taly? And do you SR me for the same reason as Titus, or for a different reason?

So generally speaking, I think that Titus is a really interesting slot in terms of the game state. At the very least I think there is less likely to be scum on the wagon and I think it's highly unlikely there are scum from both teams. It just kinda feels different to me compared to Taly wagon. That doesn't necessarily make Titus scum, but I think the defense of Titus that is happening isn't warranted. Like there's a few places that I called out Titus asking weird questions and looking through the iso again now there is nothing there that I think says town Titus to me.

This is what I was getting at when I said I wasn't looking at eliming Titus with my vote though. Basically I think this wagon is an important part of the game right now and it existing is helping me sort everyone. These interactions are helping me understand Titus to some degree but I'm particularly interested in how everyone else approaches it.

Good analysis. Particularly, I felt that Titus appeared to be more apathetic in the game and slightly down in the resolutive sense than I expected from Town!Titus, but as I noticed the frequency of her posts, I started to feel that maybe I was on the wrong track in suspecting her. My biggest difficulty was the slower pace of gamestate which, from my point of view, seemed to say ''scum is comfortable with this'', but I confess that your perspective gave me a different angle of thinking. Damn.

[clidd]

Now I'm thinking that maybe Town!Titus shouldn't assume that scums from both factions were on the wagon.

But at the same time I believe that the sparks I observed from her still have some value, so I don't think the conclusion that she is scum is so safe or obvious.

On the other hand, as players return to the topic and, hopefully, increase the level of activity, I believe that there is a more promising AI horizon in terms of PoE (which may say whether Titus is trending towards the scum side).

[Klyne]

@Kylne, not afraid of you. However, your posting suggests you're afraid of me. For some reason, you'll believe I'll go far but you want to see if that's good. That reeks to me of being afraid of the kind of impact I will make.

Yes you're absolutely right, if I am reading the room then already people are mistaking the mistake of good faith, not exclusive to you

Complacency is what scum wants, so why are you so satisfied with your own results despite not actually trying to read me

[ORAM]

Thanks for the answer on Murdercat taly, I get it now. Funny you should mention the possibility of me pocketing you, because I'm actually paranoid of you pocketing me!

Game is stalled because the wagons are glacially slow. We need another one soon. Anyone outside of like, {Titus clidd taly Murder} i'd be fine with. Hell, most people seem to be leery of my slot so I'd even be fine with votes here so people take sides.

[Klyne]

And I say that you're not trying to read me because we are fucking here and you still are being hedgey

Your only angle on me is that the controversy that my slot brings, but the burden of PROOF is on you

I have given you my reasons, you choose to ignore them. You choose to pick engagements that will favor you and you choose to live exclusively in a hypothetical world of solving based on precedence. You want to establish that you're really thinking about this game but I THINK that you are just pretending

[Klyne]

If this whole game can go on where all you have to do is post something that

looks

townie to be town?

We fucking lose

[clidd]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're on character.

[clidd]

Why are you talking to Titus like that ?

[Klyne]

Instead of determining my character you should be looking at my logic and whether you agree with it or not

That is what I care about

[clidd]

Besides Titus, what are your views on other slots?

[Klyne]

If Titus no longer presents danger I will move on to different topics

[clidd]

Ok, can you summarize your case on Titus?

[DeasVail]

Apologies for my absence over the last day. I will have more to say in a few hours from now.

[Marashu]

Last time you posted you said you didn't have any feelings (or rather, an empty feeling). Have you felt anything yet?

[Marashu]

I think I figured out what about Klick's posts has been bugginig me. Klick keeps drawing attention to how there's a large number of scum in this game, either directly or indirectly. (post 38 directly but also implied in 42 by how there's bound to be scum on the early wagon but also town on the early wagon, and in 229 with a line of how there must be scum even if Klick thinks they are towny). This bothers me because it's shifting focus away from reading players.

Klick's townread of me I think comes out of nowhere - or rather, it seems to have shifted after more people have expressed townleans on me. I'd like to know what that thing I did was that changed your mind. And wait, why is Klyne in your townish section?

VOTE: Klick

[Taly]

VLA until Sunday.

[Umlaut]

Seeking a replacement for JacksonVirgo.

[Umlaut]

The Bulge replaces JacksonVirgo.

[Umlaut]

...