Mini Normal 2179 | ENDGAME

[Flavor Leaf]

So you acting like I haven't made any cases or not done anything is straight up wrong. You guys are poor tunneling.

[Flavor Leaf]

Math just TMI’d the fruit vendor was town.

Nice try.

Gotta give you credit

Gotta focus on work but I and X are masons

they didn't claim you yesterday, Ranny.

You are miscontstruing and changing the narrative again.

[Flavor Leaf]

If someone is claiming mason, of course there’s going to be a second. Your pushing and letting up when he completed the claim doesn’t make sense. Were you thinking his half claim might be fake because yours was?

I don’t care whether he claimed or whether you figured it out. You changed your vote once you knew I was the other mason. Is it because you found it believable?

I pushed through SB9’s elim because there was no other possibility ONCE HE CLAIMED SCUM

Doesn't mean you were claimed. You're changing it up again.

What do you mean I changed my vote when I knew you were other mason?

In what world do I not just keep quiet and kill you off?

I can beat Mathblade and you in a 1v2, I don't need to worry about you being conf town or anything.

And instead I make one of the weakest kills that sets me up in a terrible gamestate?

Yeah right

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m trying not to tunnel, but complaining about it probably won’t help me townread you.

Which is exactly why I think you guys are scum.

You two are abusing the mason claim to give you gamestate momentum.

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys chose the Day 2 wagon.

NPOM is today.

[Flavor Leaf]

Welcome MathBlade. Fine, if we’re going to discuss this, let’s get off E-1. UNVOTE: (Looking at you, OutWorldER)

So you think Andres was the night kill to lock in his town read of titus? I was thinking it was to make his scum read of sb9 go away.

I could see that too. Partially why I throw SB9 with Titus and BM

Mainly the neighborizer dying and neighborizing BM doesn’t make sense with the ISO and was focusing on NKA as a start.

You can have a townread stuff in my jar for safekeeping.

I did here. I stuffed him in my jar.

Crumbing is not claiming.

I did not say you didn't crumb. I expect you to crumb as scum when you're setting up a mason claim.

You actively didn't claim it is why it's scummy.

You just made my point.
Stop lying FL.

[Flavor Leaf]

Welcome MathBlade. Fine, if we’re going to discuss this, let’s get off E-1. UNVOTE: (Looking at you, OutWorldER)

So you think Andres was the night kill to lock in his town read of titus? I was thinking it was to make his scum read of sb9 go away.

I could see that too. Partially why I throw SB9 with Titus and BM

Mainly the neighborizer dying and neighborizing BM doesn’t make sense with the ISO and was focusing on NKA as a start.

You can have a townread stuff in my jar for safekeeping.

I did here. I stuffed him in my jar.

Stop lying FL.

Crumbing is not claiming.

I did not say you didn't crumb. I expect you to crumb as scum when you're setting up a mason claim.

You actively didn't claim it is why it's scummy.

You just made my point.


FIXED^


Also, you are once again misconstruing.

You're pushing like I'm lying, and there is absolutely no lie there. You are straight up the one misrepping.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not going down.

You’re masons with Ranny.

Interesting.

VOTE: NPOM

What I needed to hear.

I’m in mobile so h*eck you for making me find this.

You pushed until I was revealed and then you gave up. Why?

Yes. I realized Superbowl was not scum in that moment. You did not claim.

I saw you guys as mason crumbing.

And I was LITERALLY pushing you 2 as scum with NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I was literally pushing you 3. It was tinfoil yesterday, you claimed masons that day, we're not fading you. Today is when I really started to see the likelihood of you pulling a scum gambit.

[Flavor Leaf]

Welcome MathBlade. Fine, if we’re going to discuss this, let’s get off E-1. UNVOTE: (Looking at you, OutWorldER)

So you think Andres was the night kill to lock in his town read of titus? I was thinking it was to make his scum read of sb9 go away.

I could see that too. Partially why I throw SB9 with Titus and BM

Mainly the neighborizer dying and neighborizing BM doesn’t make sense with the ISO and was focusing on NKA as a start.

You can have a townread stuff in my jar for safekeeping.

I did here. I stuffed him in my jar.

Stop lying FL.

Crumbing is not claiming.

I did not say you didn't crumb. I expect you to crumb as scum when you're setting up a mason claim.

You actively didn't claim it is why it's scummy.

You just made my point.


FIXED^


Also, you are once again misconstruing.

You're pushing like I'm lying, and there is absolutely no lie there. You are straight up the one misrepping.

That’s a crumb and a claim sir. It’s both.

Disagree, and it's just once again incredibly convenient.

You guys are talking to me like you are trying to convince me I'm scum, when I know I'm town.

I'm here canceling out all the lies and misrepping you two are doing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also you can tell I'm the town one because they keep going "stop lying".

If they thought I was scum, they wouldn't say that to me, because it's fine for scum to lie.

[Flavor Leaf]

No. I am not posting for you. I just can’t let your BS stand. I was content to just lurk but you can’t lie your way out of this.

You guys are the ones lying and misrepping.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM is getting faded. I don't know if you secretly want that fade or not, but the more I push it, the more good discussion is coming.

I'm sure people will see why you're the ones lying.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re continuing to share me and Ranny when NPOM or Outer are the elim.

You’re literally so focused on me you stop talking NPOM

You’re out of control dude. If you’re town you’re so focused on moon logic it’s kinda sad. I am training a newer player in Ranny and I already am a horrible town block leader. It’s not my skill set. I am doing what I can how I can do we win.

I just think you’re scum though. It makes the most sense

I've cased NPOM more than anyone in this game has cased anyone.

I am always focused on moon logic, and I have been one of the strongest town players on site this year. I've lost 2 town games this year.

You are the ones pushing me as scum. You are wrong, and your refusal to accept that is why I have every single right to see you as scum gambiting.

The fact that you didnt push me as scum until after I pushed you proves exactly that.

Yesterday, you were trying to get me to see Superbowl and Titus as scum.

You are actively misconstruing, and you see me as the biggest threat to you winning this game, so you have to discredit me.

You "scum reading me in mason pt before it came out in game thread" means absolutely nothing.

[Flavor Leaf]

I could be a scum neo.

I could be a scum rolecop.

The fact is I'm neither, I am town neo and got incredibly lucky that FL claimed the same role that I did. I'm not claiming it's skill or anything, or some great testamant to my playing ability.

If nobody sees the reasonableness in me fakeclaiming VT so that i don't get shot before I can use my ability then go ahead and elim me. I'm not going to beg on my hands and knees.

I did that on purpose, dude. It wasn't luck. It was all skill by me.

[Flavor Leaf]

like, even if you end up being town, it was still all skill.

[Flavor Leaf]

Battle Mage, I literally caught NPOM scum here...ugh

[Flavor Leaf]

@Alchemist stop lurking and tell us your solve.

What’s your solve Alch?

What are your reads?

And imho that’s not a misrep. You didn’t answer this anywhere I could find. Lurking can be active

I’m still trying to figure that out. NPOM I’m sure of. There could be a weird bussing tactic between him and overworld but, nah that’s not right because again he would have had more certainty on whether overworld actually claimed VT or not when Ranny brought it up. FL’s not the bussing type so I’m ruling out the idea that that’s s/s.

BM/NoElim/Titus would have to have the other 2 if the Masonry is real which I am still skeptical of tbh. Take out Titus because of the Town headache and you get NPOM/BM/NoElim as most likely.

FL is absolutely the bussing type.

He’s a gamestate controller. That means anything to control the narrative. Check his link in his sig.

(Titus note the soft defense of FL again)

And why haven’t you been poking BM/No Elim to sort that? Why was your ISO all NPOM before replace in and not sorting the quick hammer by Outer which you noted was weird? Why did that disappear? You didn’t say the word scummy but the implication is there.

I am the biggest anti busser on this site, what’re you talking about.

You were literally pushing me and Outer as the scum team. You can’t have it both ways.

[Flavor Leaf]

I bus on rare occasion.

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re also just pushing the 3 of us because we’ve been pushing NPOM together today and yesterday.

That would also require zero scum to be on the Super Bowl wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

The masons are hard defending scum right now, that’s why this game is fucked.

They specifically just want me to be scum and they’re letting it cloud their judge,ent, and honestly, I’m kinda done with this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Math, you literally just are looking at surface level.

[Flavor Leaf]

The masons are hard defending scum right now, that’s why this game is fucked.

They specifically just want me to be scum and they’re letting it cloud their judge,ent, and honestly, I’m kinda done with this game.

If no lim and I come over, then we'd still have majority without the masons.

No Lim said they scum read me too.

Battle Mage, if town, might come over, but his vote on Outer kinda ruins it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why do people keep bringing up what RadiantCowbells would do as if everyone plays the same as him?

Yeah, idk, I’ve beaten RC every time I was scum against him

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m actually the most notable town fake claimer

[Flavor Leaf]

I think your entire idea of what scum me is, is wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I said, you just want me to be scum, and it’s going to be a giant i told you so post game

[Flavor Leaf]

Math, just give me a chance with going NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

I know an FL execution isn’t smart but that doesn’t mean I do what he demands if anything I do the opposite.

That's surface level.

Remember how when we'd squabble as kids. I'd do one thing because I know you'd object and I'd get exactly what I wanted anyway?

If FL is scum, he knows you'll just oppose him regardless. Don't look at what he wants. Look at what you want.

I want Outer. I think it’s FL Outer Alch.

If I am wrong then to come back to NPOM tomorrow.

So zero scum on Super Bowl wagon, and the three of us have just been pushing the same slot together with no traction for 2 days?

You realize the incredible surface level logic you are pushing, right?

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t have anything with Battle Mage that pinged me, however, i do normally town read him when he is town, and his Outer vote does make sense as scum, so NPOM/Battle Mage does make sense. I don’t think either Outer or Alchemist are bussing NPOM, so that means it’s probably NPOM/BM/No Elim.

Which sucks because the masons give NPOM strength.

Alternatively, I’m wrong on Outer, but I need within NPOM and the masons today.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, Mathblade. Look dumb postgame.

:shrug:

On you Titus.

I am tapping out

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t really want a Battle Mage fade today, that’s just going to cause tomorrow to be between NPOM and Masons for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can't wait to actually be scum against Math

[Flavor Leaf]

Titus is trying to elim me here? eh, i dunno at what stage I should start taking this personally.

The only possible town ower solution is scum has a buttload of power.

^basically this.

My hero solve is something like: OutWorldER + 2 of Flavor Leaf/Titus/No Elim

However I also think from a balance perspective, either OutWorldER or the masons are lying. I'm wary of the fact Math survived last night, and also I had thought his partner was OutWorldER based on his crumbing which threw me off. But happy to do OutWorldER today and go from there, especially given Math seems to be doing the Lord's work today.

can someone do a quick summary of claims for me?

Dude, NPOM is like confirmed scum.

He claimed Vanilla yesterday, then changed it to Neapolitan after I called him out on him trying to change roles. And he's been acting dumb about it all day phase since.

Math is incorrectly derp tunneling or scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm fine with being elimmed tomorrow if OutWorldER flips town.

I don't really want either of you flipped.

I want NPOM or the Masons. If Outer is flipped, and is town, I will not be moving my vote off of Mathblade.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM claimed Even-Night Neapolitan after claiming Vanilla yesterday, Not Vanilla on Outer.

Outer claimed Indecisive Doctor.

that's all the PR's.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm fine with being elimmed tomorrow if OutWorldER flips town.

I don't really want either of you flipped.

I want NPOM or the Masons. If Outer is flipped, and is town, I will not be moving my vote off of Mathblade.

I'm non-negotiable on Outer, take from that what you will.

Then I think you're scum defending confirmed scum NPOM and doesn't realize he's confirmed scum or does, but you just have the mason's derping in your corner.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM claimed Even-Night Neapolitan after claiming Vanilla yesterday, Not Vanilla on Outer.

Outer claimed Indecisive Doctor.

that's all the PR's.

Incorrect Ranny and I are masons

you guys weren't in it. stop.

literally, just stop.

You are wrong. And I will forever know that you are wrong here.

This is the position you have put me in, I have zero interest in talking about it anymore.

Like I'm about ready to just want to vote you and if you're mason, I still think fading you is the best chance at having this game be a town win.

[Flavor Leaf]

everyone else claimed vanilla? interesting.

So I will go out on a limb and say:

I believe the NPOM claim. I don't believe the Outer claim.

I LITERALLY CALLED HIM OUT ON IT BEFORE HE CLAIMED HIS ROLE

[Flavor Leaf]

lol Titus I actually wasnt defending NPOM until just now, but ok.

you were by actions, not words.

Battle Mage is scum also. This confirms it.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's like blatantly Battle Mage and NPOM, math

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM claimed Even-Night Neapolitan after claiming Vanilla yesterday, Not Vanilla on Outer.

Outer claimed Indecisive Doctor.

that's all the PR's.

FUCKKKK. I was wrong.

Outer claimed Indecisive Bodyguard.

My bad.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's like blatantly Battle Mage and NPOM, math

Then let’s see if we can get a “third” by me being an “idiot”. If you’re right another player will have to agree as I have told Ranny not to vote and to be hammers.

What do you mean? If titus votes NPOM, he's at E-1. He isn't going to hammer. Stop blowing smoke.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm fine with being elimmed tomorrow if OutWorldER flips town.

What does this mean? Is it a scum claim? Two more miselims and scum wins.

THATS WHAT IVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU I AM NOT SCUM

[Flavor Leaf]

Battle Mage is setting up to change their claim too.

[Flavor Leaf]

They literally have to have Battle Mage change his claim too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Battle Mage is setting up to change their claim too.

Wait BM claimed VT too?

yes. right before NPOM did.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not saying they're mechanically related, I'm saying it's possible you're using a townie's death to validate your claim. The fact that andres can't back up your claim for you makes me second guess you. Probability indicates you are telling the truth, but it just seems like a strange string of events to me.

it doesnt validate my claim though, does it? If i hadnt been neighbourised, I'd be vanilla. Because I was neighbourised, I'm vanilla with a PT. what difference does it make?? of course he can't validate the claim - he is dead - he couldn't validate the claim of whoever he neighbourised. Are you saying you would have second guessed anyone who claimed to be the target? because that's what your stance implies, and it's frankly ridiculous.

here's once

[Flavor Leaf]

i wish i hadnt claimed vanilla, or this wouldve been a great game to eat an NK in

[Flavor Leaf]

however, Battle Mage can attest, I'm always down for a good mass claim.

haha yes!

I can kick off - I'm a Neighbour (formerly VT) - thanks to our deceased comrade Andres

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, Math, you're trying to live, right?

Outer targets you tonight, boom.

You automatically live or Outer is conf scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

leash Outer to Mathblade. Any shenanigans happen, fade Outer.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm just trying to find something.

Math keeps saying scum have to do take a stand, but they're pushing the 3 who were on NPOM yesterday as well, so they're basically just arguing positions where they get to choose what they want either way.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, Math, you're trying to live, right?

Outer targets you tonight, boom.

You automatically live or Outer is conf scum.

No. I am not trying to live.

I play each day as if I am dead the next one.

I really think it’s Outer and Alch and FL or Titus here.

But by forcing wagons I can see if Titus’s case has merit and by giving Ranny hammers it literally removes stupid me from the equation.

IT IS MY CASE

MY CASE HAS MERIT

JUST BECAUSE YOU CANT SEE THAT I AM TOWN DOES NOT MEAN IT IS NOT ME CASING NPOM CORRECTLY

[Flavor Leaf]

@Math - you're being buddied, and the pudding is on the wall already. See it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Battle Mage/NPOM/No lim.

No lim came in to do a shade throw at me earlier.

[Flavor Leaf]

when I die, scum get to push masons tomorrow as well if the masons are legit.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also if I live to N4 I have another investigate.

I told you he would do this.

[Flavor Leaf]

@MATHBLADE - LITERALLY SEE THIS PAGE

[Flavor Leaf]

It's not bad to have an incorrect read, it's the lack of reevaluation. I'll calm down. But understand why I am aggravated here.

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL, Alch or no elim

Who's the third? I don't care if we win or lose at this point. That's Math's choice. I just want to solve this game.

No elim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like sorry, if anyone thinks this is ever scum me, you’re scum or surface level.

I’m a dick, sure, but I’m not scum.

I guess I a surface level scum then.

they came into shade me when I was pushing NPOM earlier.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like sorry, if anyone thinks this is ever scum me, you’re scum or surface level.

I’m a dick, sure, but I’m not scum.

I guess I a surface level scum then.

they came into shade me when I was pushing NPOM earlier.

NPOM pushed you first.

If you’re town literally stop talking please and let me do as Titus asked because I have ran her VCA several times and it always looks ridiculous but I will try again.

No he did not.
Absolutely no he did not.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've been pushing NPOM since before you were in this game, Math

[Flavor Leaf]

ah, he did push me first. I just ISO'd.

Interesting

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I remeber him being the strongeest proponent of ben's elimination.

He pushed you first.

He was hiding his own bad vote onto Ben. He's literally the last vote before Ben went and voted NPOM, then himself.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Casting my vote based upon post.

In the first vote of the game from npom, throws out a hi to Titus.

In several threads indicates they've played with Titus and Titus is town. Also questioned titus' vote changes.

As the game progressed now says they know Titus is great as scum.

Then cast a vote based off of just others votes, with no actual reasoning. Claims that because both have history with me is why abd they trust them.

One of those people is Titus that I don't recall having a history with and until today town claimed me. However, the weirdness falls of pushing Titus so pro town, which I believe she is now, but then drawing out how she is as scum then aligning with. I believe this is a distraction to pull away from the rest of their game posting, which is mostly short answers or statements with no relevant pro town help.

I also believe that FL is town based off of this as I do not think they'd quote either a scummate at the moment as when I flip green, it would cause speculation.

The scummate lives in another voter who hasn't said much/has deflected and/or not voted yet either for me or at all.

:Shrugs:

That's where I stand atm.

Holy OMGUS vote batman.

Holy OMGUS vote batman.

Nope. Plenty of others I could of voted for if that was the case.

I don't take my vote casting lightly and have provided resoning behind it, which you have yet to do yourself.

With that being said I'm going to get off here and let the chips fall as they will.

You not omgusing before makes this less OMGUS? Think not.

I'm feeling Ben is town here. His questioning feels like town genuinely trying to solve the slots he's engaging and his hesitance to vote feels to me more like a townie in the dark than scum. His reaction to his RVS wagon was bad but his reaction to this current one is good, still trying to solve and push even though he's being piled on.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Ranny and ben votes feel very opportunistic from this guy, and his current engagement with Ben does not feel genuine.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not as lock town as I wanna be on Outer, but it's enough for me to roll the dice.

[Flavor Leaf]

ah, he did push me first. I just ISO'd.

Interesting

It’s this stuff that makes me doubt you.

You’re a really good manipulator so you trying to sell me your right has the opposite effect.

The best thing you can do is if you’re town let me see if Titus’s case has merit and stop trying for credit.

Then this proves exactly why you just want me to be scum here.

Any solve and case I push, you just think is me manipulating, but I'm town solving the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I do believe the alternate night neapolitan claim because I figure there's bound to be an investigative, and the gating tessellates well with my role.

with a pair of masons, you think there's an investigative.

And yet another changed claim that I called out.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's just way too convenient, dude. Even if Outer is scum, NPOM is still scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Mathblade - Me going after you in this gamestate loses all gamestate control if I were scum here. You said I strategize and that kind of stuff, but it only seems like you care about that when it's convenient to push me, and never to defend.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm surprised we haven't gotten pushed as a scum team yet, BM.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alchemist is probably scum bussing NPOM, which is why they only pop in every now and then, and isn't actually helping push.

He might also be TMI'ing me as town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I wasn't answering your question, I was putting my own thought out there.

I'm not stopping Titus from answering, she will answer when she sees the post. My thought was completely separate from the post you made even.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think NPOM got caught, and Battle Mage is covering.

[Flavor Leaf]

Here's the thing, if Outer dies, and flips town, I still am gonna get pushed as scum.

BM and NPOM probably go down, then it's a 50/50 between Alch and No Elim, but that leaves room for possible TitusScum, which I don't think is the case here, or I'd be dead by now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why are you cutting out Alchemist?

He got nommed for Don Corleone last year.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think NPOM got caught, and Battle Mage is covering.

lol there's no equity in that, I'd be better off bussing and getting a mis-elim the following day using my sweet obvtownness

why? I disagree, I think if NPOM survives this day phase, scum probably win.

[Flavor Leaf]

How is that a stretch? I already have stated that Johnny was likely a frame kill, and Alchemist legit knows me the best in this game. He even knows my weakness to scum is getting pocketed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, not posting at the time does not mean they aren't the scum PT.

I actively lurk out when I'm coaching.

[Flavor Leaf]

that's not like set in stone, but I completely lurk and coach all the time when I'm scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

who I know would take a different line as town.

if it was just you, I would have. it's the fact you changed after NPOM was caught out by me in an exact manner that could add the right type of pressure to save him.

[Flavor Leaf]

like even if you are somehow town, BM, and Outer is scum, NPOM is still scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

NPOM gonna use the "i get an action tonight" excuse tomorrow, and I don't want the Masons and NPOM all alive tomorrow in case they're scum pulling a gambit.

[Flavor Leaf]

No Elims scum, why are we waiting on their pick?

[Flavor Leaf]

No elim already chose when they shaded me earlier.

[Flavor Leaf]

Zero chance No elim votes NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

They could be town, I’m aware, but like i said, yeah, no chance they pick NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

That is fair.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like there is probably not one town player left alive who has played well, and virtually every town player who is dead, had a better showing.

I have played well.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, end of the day, I know I caught scum.

For all we know, both wagons are scum, and we’re just fighting over which one.

If there’s bussing going on, NPOM is not any actual danger here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I personally thing Bodyguard/Doc makes more sense than Neapolitan/Masons, BM

[Flavor Leaf]

Think, fuck my ipad

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s just...they both changed their claim from Vanilla to PR after NPOM was caught. Yes, NPOM was gonna claim it anyways, but I saw that they were gonna change it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, end of the day, I know I caught scum.

For all we know, both wagons are scum, and we’re just fighting over which one.

If there’s bussing going on, NPOM is not any actual danger here.

If you're town, I am convinced you know I'm right about OWER, and you trust me on this. I've played with FL-town (or your alts) a few times and you always eventually have confidence in me, and you also always have good mech savvy. Here you haven't even really talked about the setup impact of these claims and you've latched onto the fact someone 'fakeclaimed', despite the fact I think you have done that as town before too.

You could be.

It doesn’t mean I didn’t catch out correct scum NPOM too, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have talked about the setup fully.

I pushed why I don’t think Neap and Masons are ever in the same game.

I can see some townieness in you, but I’ve never seen scum you before, so I think it’s fair to be suspicious of your slot when you’re defending the scum I caught.

Also, I brought up mass claiming Day 2, so idk what you’re talking about with me not trying to setup spec and look over everything.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s just...they both changed their claim from Vanilla to PR after NPOM was caught. Yes, NPOM was gonna claim it anyways, but I saw that they were gonna change it.

But why doesn’t BM hammer NPOM in that case? And just lose that?

I’m conftown after NPOM flips. I’m never getting faded after that.

And I don’t know, I think BM can just be town.

If NPOM is getting bussed by Alch or Outer, and No Elim is the third.

[Flavor Leaf]

Outer and BM can also both target tonight.

We can protect people we don’t want dead, so we can control the scum’s Night kill here if we keep both BM and Outer alive. It weakens them and forces them to not kill who we want.

We can keep Masons alive.

BM on Mathblade, Outer on Ranny.

If any of them die, they’re outed.

Yes, there is scum WIFOM potential in that, but we play Mafia. We analyze when it comes to that.

That’s what analyzing is for.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s just...they both changed their claim from Vanilla to PR after NPOM was caught. Yes, NPOM was gonna claim it anyways, but I saw that they were gonna change it.

But why doesn’t BM hammer NPOM in that case? And just lose that?

I’m conftown after NPOM flips. I’m never getting faded after that.

And I don’t know, I think BM can just be town.

If NPOM is getting bussed by Alch or Outer, and No Elim is the third.

No you actually aren’t. I may be super close to a solve here that gets you your wish but you’re not conf if NPOM flips scum here

Okay, I’m ObvTown after NPOM flips except to the masons, who just want me to be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Outer and BM can also both target tonight.

We can protect people we don’t want dead, so we can control the scum’s Night kill here if we keep both BM and Outer alive. It weakens them and forces them to not kill who we want.

We can keep Masons alive.

BM on Mathblade, Outer on Ranny.

If any of them die, they’re outed.

Yes, there is scum WIFOM potential in that, but we play Mafia. We analyze when it comes to that.

That’s what analyzing is for.

IF

we did this Outer on me BM on Ranny

Fine, yeah.

All I want is my trophy catch.

[Flavor Leaf]

BM’s capable of making his own decisions. It doesn’t have to be some powerscum play.

I actively don’t like partners of mine to do everything I say because it becomes too obvious.

You will see later, you completely just want me to be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

lol scumslip? dude get real.

also, ftr i am never "coached" as scum - people who try, get bussed to death immediately.

consider me checked out for the day, as I think this is a lost cause. Math seems more interested in keeping FL happy than elimming scum or even talking about the possibility of elimming scum, or even talking to me about anything actually useful.

I have not been happy in this game since the lurkers will still lurking, and I think that should be incredibly obvious that Mathblade has been my biggest annoyance since then.

[Flavor Leaf]

Then that’s how you should know it isn’t me.

I’m too lazy to write something for someone, Id have given suggestion and made them write and then give what I didn’t like about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

lol scumslip? dude get real.

also, ftr i am never "coached" as scum - people who try, get bussed to death immediately.

consider me checked out for the day, as I think this is a lost cause. Math seems more interested in keeping FL happy than elimming scum or even talking about the possibility of elimming scum, or even talking to me about anything actually useful.

I have not been happy in this game since the lurkers will still lurking, and I think that should be incredibly obvious that Mathblade has been my biggest annoyance since then.

Then why get annoyed at a play asking no elim to vote? You’re not consistent.

SCUM ME IS THE MOST CONSISTENT PLAYER ON SITE. That’s like on lock one of my biggest weaknesses as scum.

You are also mixing me being generally annoyed with getting annoyed.

I actually don’t care about waiting for no elim to vote. I am a master at reading gamestate, so in my head, No elim has already voted and picked a side, and it’s against me.

[Flavor Leaf]

The main issue here is BM referred to himself in the third person.

People don’t do that even in drafts or edits.

That was a copy pasta from a scum PT.

I've referred to myself in the 3rd person lots of times in games - I expect it's NAI but who cares? You're jumping at shadows and ignoring EVERYTHING WHICH HAS ACTUALLY BEEN HAPPENING. I feel like I'm talking a maniac off a ledge right now.

You see why I wanted to fade in the masons now yesterday?

[Flavor Leaf]

Like honestly, fading a mason, getting a conf town tomorrow (unless dies, but like whatever), this game breaks open for a higher chance of winning.

I’m not like actually saying we do that, but i stand by this statement for post game,

[Flavor Leaf]

Why can’t he have failed on his own?

[Flavor Leaf]

The main issue here is BM referred to himself in the third person.

People don’t do that even in drafts or edits.

That was a copy pasta from a scum PT.

I've referred to myself in the 3rd person lots of times in games - I expect it's NAI but who cares? You're jumping at shadows and ignoring EVERYTHING WHICH HAS ACTUALLY BEEN HAPPENING. I feel like I'm talking a maniac off a ledge right now.

You see why I wanted to fade in the masons now yesterday?

i would have considered this today, prior to:

A. the claim from OWER
B. The fact that currently, if the masons are scum, they are pretty much guaranteed to win and I can't fathom why they would milk it like this.

I was pushing them as scum.

Dude, just see that even if Ower is scum, he’s still scum with NPOM.

Doctor/Bodyguard with a mason pair and a town roleblocker isn’t even a counterclaim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why can’t he have failed on his own?

It’s not a natural thought process.

Think about your meta.

You start that sentence with an I. You keep explaining with I. You don’t use a third person like Flavor Leaf or Boonskiies.

What FL knows but seems to find inconvenient is that a mason dying at night would essentially be Good For Town as then we have a mechanically confirmed townie on the next day.

I’m fine with that. I honestly don’t even care if you guys are mech cleared or not. I read off play not claims. You know how many times I’ve been mech conf town as scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

BM can be scum, sure, I’m just saying, I caught NPOM out. I want him dead. I do not want to deal with this for yet ANOTHER day phase, especially if it goes into Elo.

[Flavor Leaf]

That’s why one of us gets shot tonight.

BM is pretty much conf scum now.

The question becomes why conf scum BM did this and didn’t just rag on NPOM

BECAUSE NPOM SCUM FLIPPING CONFIRMS ME AS TOWN TO ANYONE WHO CAN READ THE GAME WITHOUT WANTING ME TO BE SCUM OH MY GOD

[Flavor Leaf]

Battle Mage, vote NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just got peppermint essential oil in my eye because of this game

[Flavor Leaf]

Then you played poorly.

I’m anti bus, and only do it when it needs to be done, and you won’t ever see it when it needs to be done by me.

[Flavor Leaf]

This would be a pointless bus for me because you have given multiple outs for me to let scumNPOM live.

You are flat out wrong. End of story.

You are blinded because you want me to be scum. You are wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

You have classic Flavor Fever.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just like RadiantCowbells always did.

[Flavor Leaf]

And every single time RC pushed me like that, I had the correct solve of the game.

That’s Flavor Fever

[Flavor Leaf]

Then you played poorly.

I’m anti bus, and only do it when it needs to be done, and you won’t ever see it when it needs to be done by me.

I played brilliant actually and never actually elimmed him. Won what was essentially 2v17 iirc.

So I think I know what you’re doing I just need to look back and talk with Ranny

Then it’s not the same thing, and if you think I’m bussing, THEN GO AND VOTE NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

You don’t get to have it both ways.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m good at internet

Why does every flavor leaf game have to end up being all about Flavor Leaf?

Hey, i can’t help it that I’m the chosen one.

[Flavor Leaf]

If there’s 4 scum with me in it, you would never win here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m back to thinking Masons and NPOM.

They can’t be this delusional as town, they just can’t.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will brag even if i lost because I know I’ve caught scum and how big of fools you guys will come across post games if you are town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, if you’re scum, fine. You did alright by just annoying the game into possible defeat.

[Flavor Leaf]

THe basis of FL's argument is NPOM is scum because I said so.

Active hard misrep.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m back to thinking Masons and NPOM.

They can’t be this delusional as town, they just can’t.

I hear ya on the delusional bit, but even if they were the most inept scum, surely they would have taken the easy win from back to back OWER and BM flips.

I wouldn’t have given that to them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think final 2 are Alch/No Elim. I don't see why both doc and bg, when doc is gated, with a pair of masons and a roleblocker can't exist.

[Flavor Leaf]

If people are trying to argue 4 scum, then this game was always a scum win here based on numbers really just being in their favor by this day phase.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think final 2 are Alch/No Elim. I don't see why both doc and bg, when doc is gated, with a pair of masons and a roleblocker can't exist.

Pretend NPOM flips town and assume one of me or Ranny dies overnight.

Who is scum and why?

Assuming you are town on top of NPOM.

Mm...Alchemist because they have been tying themselves to me all game, and there plan could just be to warlock me.

then of the remaining 4 one of Outer/Battle Mage, I don't think both.

With one of Titus/no elim.

I don't think I purposefully jumped in the Titus pocket this game, which is something you didn't push at all this game, but I didn't wanna go there because annoying conversation on my town read.

But Alchemist/Masons scum team is also possible here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I needed one of masons or NPOM to go this day phase. I think after the night phase, it just becomes obvious if masons are fake or not.

[Flavor Leaf]

I needed one of masons or NPOM to go this day phase. I think after the night phase, it just becomes obvious if masons are fake or not.

If NPOM is town as evidenced by their posting after hammers, it becomes painfully painfully clear you are scum.

You couldn’t have NPOM potentially confirm another player and two masons.

My hunch (can’t prove it obvs) is your team had a role cop and found what NPOM was.

If NPOM is scum there’s some breathing room and will talk with Ranny.

I'm town regardless of what he flips, that's a straight up fact.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just feel like you kinda know NPOM gonna flip town already.

Remember when they said they wanted to die at night, lol

[Flavor Leaf]

im just gonna vig math

[Flavor Leaf]

Again, I am lazy, but scum Flavor loves to spread chaos.
Is Flavor spreading chaos?

Chaos is not actually spread this game, I would say. This feels like a way to try to put some shade on me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor, which do you think is scum?

I think it probably was me defending lhf scum.

Battle Mage was the momentum shifting vote, and Alchemist likely was there pocketing me.

I don't know if I fully trust you here either right now, because I think one of you or Alchemist has to be scum based on the way this gamestate has gone. Alchemist/Titus isn't out of my overall list of solves, but I do think they are less likely, if that makes sense. I don't necessarily think you kill Mathblade over Ranny unless the team is Titus/Battle Mage.

[Flavor Leaf]

Outer, Alchemist, No elim could be the full team.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think their percentages are correct? I thought they scum slipped at first, but I was wrong after I double checked. I didn't put a lot of effort into checking as soon as I realized I was just hopping at them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like Battle Mage and I are the misfade plan for scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

BM momentum shifting vote looks really bad, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's Outer, Alch, No elim.

[Flavor Leaf]

No elim, Alchemist, Titus have 2 scum in them. That's where the 66% came in by No elim [Me in place of No Elim from their POV]. Got it.

Outer and BM have 1 scum in them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Again, I am lazy, but scum Flavor loves to spread chaos.
Is Flavor spreading chaos?

This confirms they are an alt.

I've never seen them before.

They don't need to out themselves, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't like meta either. I think it's good to state, but I like to read based on the game itself because I know of my ability to abuse meta, I hope others can do it as well. Familiarity over Meta. Seems similar, but I think there's a big difference.

[Flavor Leaf]

Doing some VCA, I'll make myself Blue instead of Green

Vote Count 1.FINAL

benhalkum

(7): Alchemist21,

Flavor Leaf

,

superbowl9

, Titus,

NoPowerOverMe, benhalkum

, OutWorldER |

ELIMINATED

Titus

(2):

Mathblade

, No elim

superbowl9

(2):

Rannygazoo, Andresvmb

NoPowerOverMe

(1): Battle Mage

Not Voting

(1):

JohnnyFarrar

Vote Count 2.FINAL

superbowl9

(6): No elim,

NoPowerOverMe, MathBlade, Rannygazoo, superbowl9,

Battle Mage |

ELIMINATED

NoPowerOverMe

(3): OutWorldER, Alchemist21,

Flavor Leaf

Rannygazoo

(1): Titus

Flavor Leaf

(1): JohnnyFarrar

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Vote Count 3.FINAL

NoPowerOverMe

(5):

Flavor Leaf

, Alchemist21, OutWorldER, Battle Mage, Titus |

ELIMINATED

no elim

(1):

Rannygazoo

OutWorldER

(1):

NoPowerOverMe

Not Voting

(2): MathBlade, no elim

Day 1 VC, Alchemist, Titus, Outer would have to be all 3 scum on the Ben wagon for that to have happened. Possible? Yes, likely? I don't think so. It was a fast wagon, I expect a scum to be off of it somewhere, so Battle Mage/No elim are leftover, which is interesting because...

Unflipped on Superbowl is Battle Mage and No Elim, everything else is town. This backs up 2 scum on Ben. I guess it's possible it's 1, but let me think about it some more. It might even be 3 still, sorry for the indecisiveness here.

NPOM has all unflipped. This is confirmed to have 3 scum or 2 scum on it, considering Noelim is the only unconfirmed off of it.

So possible teams, not in any specific order.

Alchemist, Outer, Titus - All 3 on Benhaulk scenario.

Alchemist, Titus, Battle Mage - 2 on Benhaulk, 1 off, the 50/50 if BM is scum.

Alchemist, Outer, No Elim - Alchemist and Outer require the 2 of them being on all wagons together. I could WIFOM myself to think both ways, I don't think this is the team because it would require Alchemist and Outer to pair up like that while having an inactive scum not take any side, and too many ties together, although they dont have much dialogue on each other?

Alchemist, Battle Mage, No elim - this requires 1 scum on Ben, but this would also be 2 scum on Superbowl, and 2 on NPOM.

Titus, No elim, Outer - 1 scum on Superbowl, 2 on Ben/NPOM. Titus hammer gives this team some likelihood.

Titus, No elim, battle mage - 2 on Superbowl, 1 on Ben, 2 on NPOM.


Is it possible Outer and BM are both scum? I think a protective makes sense in this setup. I think Outer's makes more sense with the setup, but NPOM flip helps BM Odd-Night credibility, however, the vanilla claim change is something.

[Flavor Leaf]

Remember when he was flustered about Andres having a pt all to himself night 1?)

When was I flustered? All I remember was finding it weird Battle Mage was able to see Andres in a Neighborhood posting. This is misrepping what actually happened.

Normally, I wouldn't make a Neighborhood until the action went through, creating equivalent to Day Start, which is why I found it weird.

[Flavor Leaf]

so... other there is bg/ doc/ mason and everyone else claims VT (I claim VT too)?

Yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

Technically, you're not allowed to copy/paste, Ranny, but it's just more of Math wanting me to be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

They couldn't have NPOM catching them in lies.

Well, I could have fought a guilty if I were scum in elo and got guiltied, so this isn't really true.

I'm going to try and focus on catching scum today rather than defend myself. If I get faded, I get faded, I'll try to deal with it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can you wait a little while so we can discuss?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Ranny - Say I became conftown, you knew my flip.

Can you check out my VCA from that POV?

[Flavor Leaf]

What do you mean by Perfect Days? Like zero scum on either wagon? Yeah, no, that's impossible.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've been saying that it's possible that 3 scum were on the Ben wagon, but I think there's 2.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, it's right there in my VCA, you're just tunneled.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's an interesting perspective I have right now on this. Like on one hand, I totally expected the mason team to be the downfall, at the same time, Titus could be scum here.

Bold move, don't think it's worth the risk. I think you should unvote.

[Flavor Leaf]

You aren't supposed to copy/paste from PT's, for future reference, Ranny. Don't want you getting in trouble.

[Flavor Leaf]

He didn’t have time to come up with a reaction for a buddy here. He hates being thrown off his game. He freaking hates it.

This is just for Math's sake for knowledge of me anyways because this game shows clearly they misunderstand who I am.

I thrive under pressure like this. I love getting challenged. I think one of my best strengths is my ability to play on the fly.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ranny, I believe Math incorrectly tunneled on both Titus and myself. They're letting their paranoia of both of our scum games effect their entire game.

That's why almost every single thing they've said about my playstyle and what goes through my mind has been incorrect.

Like, sure, you probably aren't going to listen to it, but this is a post game lesson for you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I understand why you're backing your mason, but being town doesn't mean you have correct reads.

In my experience, confirmed town generally have more incorrect reads than non confirmed town because they are universally town read normally.

That's why no matter what, I believe my push on you guys was pro town.

If anything I helped you guys live through Night 2, which is something I will always try to do. (plus, imagine the clout I'd get if I called it out correctly)

[Flavor Leaf]

were they large posts like that as well?

One or two sentences, fine, do it, but that's like, the same thing as quoting, is all.

I would have said own words if I were the mod, but it's over with, we can talk about this post game. Let's focus on scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I claimed a hard guilty on a partner earlier this year, it's not like I don't bus.

[Flavor Leaf]

But Math was claiming I will absolutely bus always, but I'm very much of the anti bus type of scum player.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Tiiiituuus

[Flavor Leaf]

good game, guys

[Flavor Leaf]

YALL HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH I WANTED TO FADE A MASON HERE

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Titus

Just in case for some reason, they dont count my last one.

[Flavor Leaf]

"Doesn't matter if you know we're scum, gotta get us faded."

[Flavor Leaf]

All 3 wagons we were together.

[Flavor Leaf]

all 4!

[Flavor Leaf]

How To Open Wolf As A Full Team 101

[Flavor Leaf]

Math had the right solve for a second on Day 3, but couldn't label the actual reasons for us to be scum.

Town's downfall was searching for an entire team Day 3 rather than going for a slot individually.

We were protected from being taken seriously as a most likely scum team because of how on the nose it was based on our voting patterns and the ties we had together, which is what I wanted Mathblade to push.

Math scum reading the team gave us a hiding spot, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Haha, I liked you on NPOM with Alchemist and I Day 2, though.

We were all 3 scum on 1 townie while Superbowl was an all town wagon.

All 3 on Ben, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actively never wanted to use my TA.

Didn’t need it.

So yeah, we knew there were masons from the beginning.

[Flavor Leaf]

Need to make the links public.

Not authorized on dead thread

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, so happy nobody picked up on my Andres fear kill.

[Flavor Leaf]

The scum game I won right before this, he almost got me.

[Flavor Leaf]

We all said we’re cool releasing in our PT, so should be open.


Yeah, Ben, Andres, Titus we’re who I noted as the biggest threats, I know Titus better than I know the other 2, so I knew I had to get them gone.

I did actively play exactly like I did when Ben and I were scum together.

I was first scum dead when Ben and I won together, so I knew he’d be able to handle me.

Andres broke through my Friendly Neighbor gambit, so i knew I wouldn’t be able to sneak a win through him like that again.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, so happy nobody picked up on my Andres fear kill.

I think I did. I know I assigned a reason in the PT to it. Can’t remember if I thought it was you or Titus. I knew Johnny was a fear kill.

I wanna see why your team didn’t kill me or Ranny N2.

Johnny actually wasn’t a fear kill.

It was a setup game thread so you look like you’re derp tunneling or scumMason possibility kill.

Johnny was just an extra vote to take off.

I wasn’t lying when I said I would normally never make that kill, which is indirectly why I wanted it. It helped create gamestate.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, shout out to Outer for calling out Town likely having a Neapolitan. It’s how I knew what to claim against NPOM.

[Flavor Leaf]

GG's

first scum game on this site, I didn't really act independently but I thought I did well enough.

It was rough because you and Alch posting probably would have outed you guys as scum unless you were like really on it, and able to do some major townie ness, but that was always going to be risky.

I felt so good about your natural instinct, and you were like obv scum after NPOM flip, you were just part of the POE.

Day 3 here was always gonna be the hardest day, but just like with that game where I was scum with Kkoba, getting through that Day 3 that way sets Day 4 up to be a reset.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I didn’t get cocky and try to fade a mason, I would have killed them instead of Johnny.

[Flavor Leaf]

But yes, Johnny had the solve there. It was always a danger, you are correct, not taking anything away, just explaining my thought process.

[Flavor Leaf]

viewtopic.php?p=12370924#p12370924

@Kkoba - Yeah, I understood that last game why Andres should not be left alive late game. I was lucky I had a strong net in place in that game on him by accident.

Also, this is how I get you ;P You'll need to see a few more before you truly understand.

I'm extremely aware of players knowing how I play and what I'll need to do and what not to do to get around it, I play towards the people in the game.

Which is why replacements suck as scum

Mathblade and Johnny prove that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just needed to pivot, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fun setup.

Rolestopper probably one of my favorite roles, so glad Alch had that.

[Flavor Leaf]

People seem a bit harsh on Titus.

You have to remember, Titus is probably one of the players I know best on site, so I played in a way where I knew how to lock in her pocket.

I actively wanted to abuse her VCA in a way where it didn't look like someone trying to avoid her VCA.

Whoever stated "anyone who quickhammers here is lockscum" gave us reason to doubt Outer being scum, and alongside playing into the Titus pocket, we weren't bussing each other, so it was extremely hard for you guys to get the right amount of votes on any of us, and we were too on the nose scum team for it to look like the main scum team

[Flavor Leaf]

Alchemist and I are 3 wins 0 losses as a team now.

[Flavor Leaf]

He really played a strong empowering me game.

[Flavor Leaf]

That was me tempting outer to quickhammer, and yeah, I scumread sb9 for leaning into the policy elim that I suggested.

Sb9 pushing policy hard definitely let me abuse that idea as well.


I was telling everyone how anti bus I am.

[Flavor Leaf]

there's still 0 excuse to let outworld not get limmed after what happened d1. thats a policy that should always be upheld

in a perfect world, sure, I like Mastina's point about it in the dead thread.

But I would have hammered Benslot there as town, probably not if it was actually Ben, though, if that makes sense.

I just like getting past Day 1 as town. I also supported Outer as town at the end of the day, so the GAMEFIC was "Outer is being town read for the quickhammer." so SBowl was an easy push because they were pushing policy, if that makes sense, which is super easy to defend against.

[Flavor Leaf]

oh damn, rereading scum thread, Alch called the Neapolitan after Outer brought up options with it.

Nice one.

Also, thanks for modding, TGP.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey, if you want to put me on E-2, I'll self-vote. NPOM may have broken tradition but I believe in the old ways.

viewtopic.php?p=12386971#p12386971

damn, we should have done it.