PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Bell]

Okay doke.

[Bell]

I can't focus on what I was doing anymore.

Did you crumb Sir easy bake. Because if you didn't crumb with that name,
what the fuck.

[mastina]

Didn’t you townread Dunnstral earlier Mastina? Why the change?
- Norwee

Spoiler: Essentially? This:

I realize I need to take stock of my reads and give minor reevaluation to them--given that the game has four scum in it and I have only three players in my scumreads right now, at least one player I am townreading, by necessity,

must

be scum; I'll try to get more into it later. Plan for today is to read content and explain reads as they were, then hopefully later go into the work of reevaluating and reassessing those reads to try and form that coherent scumteam.

Dunnstral
Toogaloo
pichu
Double The Trouble
Polar Bear Express*
Ydrasse*

This was my last readslist post of D1 with the dead players removed, but as the day so RUDELY ended due to SOMEONE hammering before we were ready, I didn't get to post the

actual

final readslist, which would've moved Solstice up to the conftown tier and also been kinder to Spiffeh, producing this:

Solstice
Dunnstral
Toogaloo
pichu
Double The Trouble
Polar Bear Express*
Ydrasse*

This is, obviously, not possible given there's four scum and only three south of null, so yes, I do need to reevaluate. I won't be able to give a full reevaluation, but to go into the names:

Dunnstral was a top townread of mine because I thought that all of his content radiated an aura of townness. Even if his points weren't something I agreed with, I thought that they came from a town mindset and looked town overall. This is something I probably need to revisit in D2 with too many townreads and not enough scumreads for the setup. My first thought is, this is probably still Dunnstral as town, because overall his play here is a match to what I'd expect from Dunn as town more than scum, but I should also do some meta double-checking on this front. (It'll, unfortunately, be largely secondhand meta where I'd be reading games I didn't play in, so not as reliable, but may still help me on this assessment.)

So, tentative starting point for D2 in a loose readslist:

Dunnstral, Toogeloo, Spiffeh, Bell, Ircher (reevaluation needed, this spot probably has 1-2 scum in it)

Dunnstral, Toogeloo, Spiffeh, Bell, Ircher (reevaluation needed, this spot probably has 1-2 scum in it)

For the record:
I can say that the Bell of this game very much looks identical to the Bell of MBOS10, but I admit lack of familiarity with the nuances of him as a player to be able to tell if he is definitively town here.
Spiffeh I feel has been getting townier over the course of the game, but with at minimum one scum absent from my readslist, that healthy paranoia I have on him needs to be addressed because there's a rather significant risk that he is the scumteam's deepwolf. (Plus, on an unrelated note, going into the wifom-hole, if FL's claim of his first draft being the first four names on the playerlist was in any way remotely close to the truth, if Creature is scum, it lends some credence to the idea that Spiffeh could also be scum, with FL having been unable to draft all four due to the other two being picked as town, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, I feel that going down this rabbit hole is a mistake so I basically am writing this off as possible, but not probable.) Overall I'd still rate him as town, but if we have three scum flipped and can't find the fourth after multiple town deaths, it's worth revisiting on him. He's certainly not a priority-sort today imo so even if it's possible he's scum, I kinda want to townbin him anyway for now, to revisit it down the road if needed.

Ircher I feel is probably town here. I admit lack of familiarity with him, and I realize that I do need to acknowledge he does have several bad takes and that effort does not equal town and that his style of posting does have a lot of information in it with the analysis comparatively lackluster, all things that make it possible he's scum, but I also feel that Ircher was not following an FL script, that Ircher's stances and refusal to play ball with Pooky came from an inherently town point of view and that the indignance behind it did radiate a type of townness I don't think Ircher, even with FL, could fake.

So in terms of the names up here with 1-2 scum in them, I'd rate their townness as:

Ircher > Spiffeh (this and above means "not interested in really sorting today") >>>>>> Bell

>

Dunnstral = Toogaloo (Bell either equal or higher than Toog/Dunn, not quite sure which).

DUN Dun dun dun dun dun Dun dun, DUN Dun dun dun dun Dun dun dun.

GUYS THIS MEANS THAT THE SCUM IS DUNNSTRAL
LETS GO GET HIM BOYZ

If MURDERCAT is in fact town?

Actually quite likely! Creature + Bell + Dunn + DEB would be an incredibly likely combo, with the other one being Creature + Bell + Toog + DEB (or Creature + Bell + Spiffeh + DEB but as mentioned I wanna table Spiffeh-scum thoughts until three scum are dead, ideally).

Although I remain unconvinced that MURDERCAT is town.

Basically, Dunnstral isn't so much a scumread as he is a poe pool possible-scumread. He was a townread, but I do need to, carefully, constantly, neverendingly, reassess and reevaluate this stance on him and keep a close eye on his contributions to see what that content is saying towards his alignment. He's still plausibly town, with a narrative that could be town, but I see the case for him being scum off of his Bell defense. He's not lockscum from it, but I need to keep my eye on him.

is creature just always like this in his games now? i actually can't tell if the negativity and pessimism is faked or if this is just Creature

It's faked.

I've played with Creature even post-degradation from his play.

This is it as scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

There are many ways to go about analyzing these claims here.
But Morning Tweet's: "There's some fuckery going on" describes my thoughts best i think.

- Norwee

[Double the Trouble]

There are many ways to go about analyzing these claims here.
But Morning Tweet's: "There's some fuckery going on" describes my thoughts best i think.

- Norwee

Fk

- Norwee

[mastina]

@BELL

you got some serious splaining to do.
I'm mad that you are making me sign a death warrant so early in the game, but no you aren't the detective, I am.
I'll give you the benefit for like two seconds if you can explain why you would fake claim detective.
Otherwise, I'm dropping the vote and hopefully the hammer.

So my thought on this is that it's probably a classic FL scum-scum claim where both players claiming the role are scum and neither is town.

But at least this makes the day easier in that it's guaranteed there's a minimum of one scum in DEB and Bell.

[Bell]

Why is Dunstral a PoE at this point.

[Bell]

mm. Cake crumbed. Sort of.

[pichu]

guys one of these detective claims is fake
see if you can figure out which one

[mastina]

You telling me that I would literally take any action at all on N1 as scum after claiming VT? Watchers and Trackers would keep me from ever taking an action after a post 1 VT claim let alone worrying about someone specifically checking I did the kill. Even more so with the fact that we know that scum can multitask.

Yes, I am aware.

I believe Bell's claim of targeting you is a bit dubious, because it is objectively a poor target.

However, I believe it plausible that Bell could make the suboptimal night action target choice. Plausible--not probable. Plausible = action could feasibly happen without it being a remote freak occurrence. Probable = action is quite likely to happen even if it's not guaranteed. Bell's claimed target of you is plausible...but not probable.

Which is to say I think the claim could plausibly come from town; I don't think it actually does come from town. See also: I am voting Bell. I am still voting Bell. I am actively championing for the elimination of Bell. So that while the action is plausible from town, I don't think it actually did come from town.

[pichu]

It's faked.

I've played with Creature even post-degradation from his play.

This is it as scum.

idk i've seen him like this as town as well which is the annoying thing
hence why i think it's nai
the constant whining about people needing to do more and his takes themselves - like the scumreads on you/spiffeh are scummy though

[Bell]

My initial assumption was that he was half-truthing, even though it was a direct claim from a parallel perspective.
I can't do much until he says more tho.

[Bell]

guys one of these detective claims is fake
see if you can figure out which one

Let me guess.

[Double the Trouble]

I have so many moon theories in my head right now. I think it's best to just keep sheeping Pichu tbh.

- Norwee

[Ircher]

Pages 121-123 are mostly fluff / noise.

Maybe we can take this moment to finally solve the game instead of fucking around like some fucking bonobos

Be the change you want to see. Your post is just as much noise as the rest.

just breathing some life into the game Morning

Good initiative, but maybe we should be doing something?

Weren't you complaining about it a page or two ago?

We could start from a scum!Bell world. Who are their partners?

Assumptions are fine and all, but I think it would be more useful to hear

your

thoughts on Bell. Like, if you don't believe Bell is scum (and I kind of get that impression since most of your posts Day 2 to this point seem to ignore it or complain about the game state in general), it does you no good to speculate on potential Bell partners.

I think post #2992 in the context of the previous one is slightly >rand scum for dunn and >rand town for double trouble

I feel like FL is slightly more likely to correct double trouble if double trouble is town and dunn is scum, but I'm reading into the WIFOM further than MT is comfortable with

This reading of Flavor Leaf's posts is just pure speculation, so I would be inclined to discard it altogether.

Is Spiffeh a known (or a lesser known) good scum player?]

I know for sure Spiffeh was at least in the running for Paragon once. As to scum skill level, I would like to think Spiffeh is at least a competent scum player, and I'd imagine that they are actually a pretty good one given their skills as town (as some skills are shared between the two alignments.) Like I've said several times by this point, I don't think Spiffeh has done anything that really falls outside their "comfort zone" so to speak. If I remember correctly, Spiffeh was mafia in the Defcon game that they referred to earlier this game (to support their townread on me.) You should be able to find it on my wiki page. It's pretty old, but it may give you an idea of scum!Spiffeh.

Someone explain why Bell hard defends Noraa unless they are scum together
As in, if Bell is scum, how is Noraa town

Yes, it's called White Knighting/pocketing/buddying. Take your pick as you please, but in all instances, scum have good incentive to do this, especially if the townread ends up reciprocated.

You didn't push me. I spent upwards of 8 hours telling you to your face what the truth was and it didn't matter. Call it AtE or what not. But the facts are the facts and you saying you weren't voting me in that at the end of day is just massaging your own play to look better in hindsight as a form of ego protection.

Why is the Forest Fire game or whatever such a big deal to you? I would think that if you were town here, you would spend more time talking about this game and your play here rather than talking about your play there and pichu's reads there. Also the fact that you refuse to even skim the case and instead just assume it's the same as another game doesn't feel like a town mindset to me.

At bottom of page 127.

[mastina]

If Detective is as weak as the claim sounds, having two in town with the exact same modifiers doesn't seem implausible. You have to literally catch the killer that night, right?

Detective can catch someone who has killed, even if they killed on a different night. If a detective checks the scum who made the N1 nightkill and a different scum makes the N2 nightkill, the detective still gets a guilty.

In a Normal, investigatives resolve after the kill, so a Detective should be able to catch the N1 nightkill, but in a theme game this isn't a guaranteed resolution so is worth asking about if you care that much.

(Since I happen to think both claims are probable scum, I'm not as inclined to be thorough in prodding about the detectives.)

[Bell]

Okay Ircher.

[mastina]

They have to catch the person on the night of or the night after the kill. But yeah, it's pretty weak.
~Morning

Not so.

A detective can get a guilty on N5 of a scum who made the N1 nightkill and never made a kill after that.

[Double the Trouble]

You didn't push me. I spent upwards of 8 hours telling you to your face what the truth was and it didn't matter. Call it AtE or what not. But the facts are the facts and you saying you weren't voting me in that at the end of day is just massaging your own play to look better in hindsight as a form of ego protection.

Why is the Forest Fire game or whatever such a big deal to you? I would think that if you were town here, you would spend more time talking about this game and your play here rather than talking about your play there and pichu's reads there. Also the fact that you refuse to even skim the case and instead just assume it's the same as another game doesn't feel like a town mindset to me.

Really good point.
I find that scum tends to focus a lot of previous games when being scumread, saying things like "in game X you didn't scumread me" or whatever nonsense.
I'm bringing this up because it just happened to me previously where i caught scum!Titus and they kept talking about how i only scumread them as revenge for them tricking me in a previous game or some shit. While i didn't think about any previous games whatsoever and only voted them because of the scummy things they did in that game.

- Norwee

[mastina]

Why is Dunstral a PoE at this point.

Because there's four scum in the game and on D1 I didn't have enough scumreads for that number of scum and I needed to reassess my townreads--Dunn included.

Most of the townreads were reassessed and I concluded still town. The townreads on you, Toog, and Dunn? Less so.

[mastina]

guys one of these detective claims is fake
see if you can figure out which one

Hot take: both are.

But if only one were--yes, I'd begrudgingly admit that DEB's is more plausible than Bell's.

[mastina]

guys one of these detective claims is fake
see if you can figure out which one

Hot take: both are.

But if only one were--yes, I'd begrudgingly admit that DEB's is more plausible than Bell's.

(It should be noted: While I am dubious of DEB being town here, I'm not advocating for him to be eliminated after Bell. I still think Creature is the best D3 elimination here. And after that, on D4, if DEB is alive, he has three results and from there we can assess further. Explicitly, I think it should be Bell today-->Creature tomorrow. Literally the only way I'd go for DEB tomorrow is if Bell somehow flipped town, which I don't think he will.)

[Flavor Leaf]

The fact that DEB is 100% the best at reading me in this game is hilarious to me, not a shade, like it makes sense, but it's hilarious.

[Dr Easy Bake]

Lolol, you think I'm just gonna out it rn, I'm building a case.

Of course, I was sincere in my posts yesterday.
There's a lot of paperwork involved.
I have my catch, but I need to flesh out the evidence before I can present my findings.

I started late, but here are the obvious crumbs.

While my D1 may seem like a waste of time to many
I’m paying attention to every single way you react to me
Each detail is fused as a blueprint to solve this game
I am the greatest detective
I am better than Batman
I am Flavorman

[Double the Trouble]

Lolol, you think I'm just gonna out it rn, I'm building a case.

Of course, I was sincere in my posts yesterday.
There's a lot of paperwork involved.
I have my catch, but I need to flesh out the evidence before I can present my findings.

I started late, but here are the obvious crumbs.

While my D1 may seem like a waste of time to many
I’m paying attention to every single way you react to me
Each detail is fused as a blueprint to solve this game
I am the greatest detective
I am better than Batman
I am Flavorman

Sounds good enough to me.
Bell, any last words?

- Norwee