Mini Normal 2180 | Fake Peoples | Endgame

[innocentvillager]

wait

I was in mini normal 2160 which had Town Rolecop, Town night 1,4 cop, Town Tracker, Informed Townie

this doesn’t seem outside realm of possibility?

[innocentvillager]

and trying to blame others/claim he knew they were wrong the whole time.

this is the only one outside of setup spec I feel is scummy

If scum have a roleblocker type role (or rolestopped me) they could just mess with the investigation that way, also Datisi is very helpful and was obvtown

[innocentvillager]

and was softing Pr

[innocentvillager]

don’t forget this is a gypyx setup which is supposedly absolutely wild

scum could be op here as well, rolestopper could fit if there isn’t both scum and town roleblocker

[innocentvillager]

well, ABR does have a lot of heat rn so?

[innocentvillager]

you are essentially confirmed town here so obviously I will follow your lead at the end of the day (LOl if the team is you, ico, peta)

My prior going into this day was the ABR was pretty townie and seeing all this heat on him seems just a little shocking to me. I might come around but for now I’m at least going to play devils advocate here

Pedit: he is apparently looking pretty suspicious rn and has heat, so maybe scum want to set up him as an ML

[innocentvillager]

wait why did you target peta n3, did you think he was scum?

[innocentvillager]

fine whatever ABR can go, not gonna defend them anymore at this point

[innocentvillager]

fine whatever ABR can go, not gonna defend them anymore at this point

he's literally just lolcatting calling the confirmed FN scum

yeah that post was horrible and why im not longer going to defend them.

[innocentvillager]

what's the lylo plan in the event ABR flips town?

[innocentvillager]

he is super busy, not posting elsewhere and potentially not caught up.

[innocentvillager]

I’m not saying I currently think he’s town, but I’m still not even 100% convinced

I’m down to elim here just to be clear, when is anyone ever going to be 100% convinced.

[innocentvillager]

you’re seriously telling me you’re 100% convinced he’s scum?

[innocentvillager]

your accusation there is essentially that the fact that I refuse to acknowledge that ABR is 100% scum

Is such a bad take, that you don’t think it’s as likely to come from town as it is from a wifoming scum

[innocentvillager]

again, I’m not interested in defending ABR anymore, but now you are using that to attack my slot which is why I brought it up again.

[innocentvillager]

what is the point of asking questions like that

this is not the first time you have done that

[innocentvillager]

you did it again to me lol

okay whatever no point asking you you’re conftown

Part of me kind of just wants to see ABR flip tbh before I really get back into this game

[innocentvillager]

i don't think it's important enough to go try and find lol, don't think this helps solve either of our alignments

[innocentvillager]

i skimmed through abr's D2 again and im really not sure im ready to accept that slot is scum

im sorry, im probably just horrible at this game

[innocentvillager]

i don't really have meta on abr, can anyone show me a scum!ABR game where he played like, even remotely like this? that might help me with... the closure

[innocentvillager]

i think his D2 posting is like, outside of the scumrange of many players on MS so if i see something that suggests it's not outside ABR's scumrange id feel better about the ABR yeet

[innocentvillager]

you can call me read on him "pocketed", "colored", "biased" all you want, because he "saved me" or at least defended me from the D2 elim. let me be clear on a few GTH reasons why i thought he was town though, outside of that:

-the claim truly was like, almost completely unnecessary, there's almost no reason to not just kill cakez at night
-the shoshin "cc" was consistent with the story, along with the tunneling cakez on role mechanics, etc, it's all very consistent with someone who is expecting a very traditional kind of setup without too many investigatives
-the role? like wtf? the only reasonable explanation is that he's the scum version of the role, but the lazy modifier seems really random, not something he'd come up with
-the blow-up at me for not joining him on Cakez does not seem like, anything he would do as scum, that definitely felt fucking real
-tone, general frustration, the "feeling bad about tunneling scum!Cakez", it just all expressed a wide range of emotions that had to be faked by scum which all seems pretty unlikely especially coming from a player who loves to be Town.

points ive heard against him:
-setup spec, sure, I don't know too much about it but gypyx setups are apparently fucking wild so whatever not confscum for me
-okay he was the driver of two townie elims but that... happens even if he is town? everyone else joined those wagons for a reason
-he's trying to deflect responsibility from the elims with the whole "omg cakez I was about to 180 on you but you gave up" rant. I don't even think that is that scummy on further reflection. It's so obvious he was the driver of the wagons. As scum it obviously looks bad if he tries to deflect responsibility away from himself, so I think the read here being scum!indicative is just... lazy

[innocentvillager]

i think his D2 posting is like, outside of the scumrange of many players on MS so if i see something that suggests it's not outside ABR's scumrange id feel better about the ABR yeet

What are you seriously proposing here? You want to yeet someone else?

i think scumteam is just 3 out of 4 of {ico, dv, mwb, gamma} unless i see a strong case on abr.

[innocentvillager]

i think, expressing my viewpoint here is on balance helpful because no one is on ABR's side atm. if im wrong and my points are all BS then the ABR yeet will still go through. im gonna go back to playing devil's advocate in the meantime.

forgot to reiterate ABR's "giving up" lately really could just be him being busy.

and also the point about him not dying instead of datisi, well he's getting a ton of heat today, maybe scum are setting him up as the ML and messed with the RB in some weird way.

[innocentvillager]

why is it obvious lolcatting though when he's made it clear he is busy RL (and by proxy probably hasn't read the thread to realize for baltar to be scum he HAS to be scum with two others)

why are you so sure it can't come from town given what i just said?

[innocentvillager]

Idk what a friendly neighbor is

is this part faked Baltar and peta? i genuinely don't know

[innocentvillager]

I have to believe you are trolling me at this point because you can't legit be this bad at this game

i don't care if im bad or good, or if im right, or im wrong

i don't care about looking dumb postgame when he flips red or a genius when he flips green

i care about winning this game

[innocentvillager]

My role is a red herring, scum have ninja.

Theres gotta be a scum counter to detective as well.

Thats about all I can say.

"this setup is wild" in a lot of cases, i would see as scum trying to weasel and rationalize their fakeclaim when the default assumption is a "normal setup"

"this setup is wild" when the moderator has a red hand in their avi and is called Gypyx, should be the default assumption

if this is some master scum plan, it's not ABR's idea.

i also think, it's kind of indicative that no one came to ABR's defense at all today. zero. scum!ABR had ground to keep fighting here going into D3. The narrative that he just "gave up and spewed obvscum everywhere" seems too wifomy to be real.

[innocentvillager]

eh like if i'm scum and i know i'm likely to be screwed, i just tell my buddies to shut up and bus, newbie 2033 i subbed into a slot that got guiltied by the tracker as soon as i repped in (replaced overnight), i was telling my buddy the whole time to bus me no matter what so he'd look better at endgame

right, but i don't think he was likely to be screwed. a few people expressed a townread on him at EOD2. also, assuming he's in a tough spot here defeats the whole premise of ABR being scum where he fakeclaimed this to get a lot of towncred

[innocentvillager]

I had a complete trump card. I can't be beat today. The only move would be to bus if ABR is scum.

but why is that the only move? if i can think of all these arguments to defend him when plenty of people townread him why can't scum?

[innocentvillager]

where the fuck is datisi

please

we need you



i have never missed a graveyard player so much in my MS career

anyway im busy irl and this game is crazy so i have to take a break for now.

[innocentvillager]

if abr is town and im scum the first person i am killing is datisi, not abr.

[innocentvillager]

can someone unvote so he's not at E-1 please, i just don't want scum to lolhammer because deadline and that he's a scummy slot

i get that we have 2 days, i will *try* to devote some attention here later today or tomorrow

still think we should elim in {DV, Ico, MWB, Gamma}

[innocentvillager]

mwb, im a bit worried about your slot because you're also giving me 2167 Illicit vibes

[innocentvillager]

i mean your posting the whole game

i guess like, you mention that you game has changed. what do you think makes you town here? im not sure the best way to ask you this question but i want to know why you are town, essentially

[innocentvillager]

thank you! i appreciate it baltar

im serious that if i don't have anything useful go ahead and yeet abr because deadlines are horrible to dance around. even if abr is scum there's still probably remaining two scum in {DV, Ico, mwb, Gamma}, if others can help brainstorm who is scum that would be helpful

[innocentvillager]

you know what, this is stupid, no one really responded to my towncase, clearly no one was even remotely convinced, and unless i like, reiterate my towncase or literally solve the game

if people aren't going to reconsider then why am i even putting in the effort when i could be doing other things

[innocentvillager]

this is frustrating because i do feel like abr flips town here pretty often but i can't really do anything about it singlehandedly with this little time left, and there's no point in me being right or wrong if i can't convince anyone

gamma, peta, baltar, dv, mwb, dunnstral, doesn't seem like any of them believe abr can be town here

ico is probably going to say the same thing

like, how i imagined contributing at this point was going to essentially re-ISO {DV, MWB, Gamma, Ico} and figure out if any of them are pretty likely to be scum

[innocentvillager]

im 90% sure cakez is scum and 75% sure Noraa is scum.

guys can we just hammer cakez, we have to make a decision and end the torture for SOMEONE

this is misery

like this is what was going on when there was some possible shifting to nora as a counterwagon to cakez. and tbh, i dont really read into the AtE, i got snowed by it as a spectator to death curse when she got wagoned early

my one hard read is that DV/noraslot is never S/S, because that tension WAS real, so i think theres at least 1 scum in midway/gamma

UNVOTE:

Ok wait you think cakez flips town for real?

Jesus fucking christ is cakez town, am i being trolled here.

Goddamit i invented the Detective role. I will feel soooo bad if im wrong about this.

VOTE: Cakez

Ok... this is so high stakes i dont want to be wrong

If cakez is town he will fight harder than this. Hammer away guys.

also, like, right after that...if this isn't fake, i suck at mafia

ABR, why do you think gamma is scum? i skimmed their ISO recently and have them pretty like, null ish, despite having them as town before

[innocentvillager]

oops, didn't mean to quote that

but because i did, @petapan i don't see why that has to be fake? idk if it necessarily reads real to me, just feels like it could be real

[innocentvillager]

if abr is town and im scum the first person i am killing is datisi, not abr.

lulwut

tbh, assuming the lulwut is a reaction to my quote, it almost feels genuine, like scum!Gamma would never have killed Datisi over town!ABR

[innocentvillager]

IV you need to vote because this is stupid to play defense and offer no one as CW.

ik ik i understand that

[innocentvillager]

oops, didn't mean to quote that

but because i did, @petapan i don't see why that has to be fake? idk if it necessarily reads real to me, just feels like it could be real

i don't know at the time it looked like faux indecision, the waffling over it, acting sad but ultimately still ending up voting cakez

then he clapped back at me and i felt bad about it and i just havent wanted to think about the game

are you still convinced ABR is scum over someone like Gamma or DV?

[innocentvillager]

tbh, i don't really understand the case on you

[innocentvillager]

abr why is midway town?

[innocentvillager]

midway hello

how do you feel about a DV/Gamma/Iconeum solve?

[innocentvillager]

DV's iso is pretty unimpressive

i feel like they've just been coasting all game and letting active town destroy itself

in fact, peta's point about players like gamma being less active over time and you mwb being more active over time as shit got crazy is like, pretty telling

[innocentvillager]

i think I initially TR'd gamma for emotional scumrange but like, i reread the shit with shoshin and like, it doesn't seem out of scumrange to react in the way he did

[innocentvillager]

rather than control, more like passively support town just ripping each others faces off

[innocentvillager]

im skimming the DV/Ico/Gamma iso rn. nothing seems unpartnery aorn

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: deasvail well, better this than ABR

[innocentvillager]

these were like, my only notes on my skim. conclusion is that this could be the scumteam. im not at all sure, but it's definitely possible

now i'm paranoid we're all town and scum Noraa is skating by here

Maybe? Why can’t it be mwb or DV or something
Though I also dislike that Noraa’s activity has dropped hard. You might actually be onto something there.

'You might actually be onto something here" gross

Gamma v. Iconeum 1578-etc seems like... a potentially somewhat genuine exchange in information that is giving me a little pause
Gamma v. DV 1925 weird interaction that might not be partnery? idk

it seems none of ico, gamma, dv really cared about ABR vs. Cakez

they all just let that happen/passively supported it, and instead decided to go push scummy slot Noraa

this is like, the best thing for them: when 2 TPR are at each others throats, push a 3rd scummy looking townie, and town will be so distracted by all the wagons but oh, they're all town, wow this is great

ico "sad panda" could've been anything

gamma, dv, ico etc all kind of TR'd ABR around eod2, and i think ico/DV at least mentioned that all 3 TPRs *could* be town. suddenly they want to yeet ABR on D3 with little turnaround, little second guessing, just... yep fine with me now... oh wait don't forget about noraa-slot that we've been fake-tunnelling all game!

none of ico's claims or info is outside of scumrange for ico that knew they got blocked D1 and visited by FN

[innocentvillager]

i think most incriminating is just the general trajectory of these slots, the fact that everything just got more and more underwhelming and lazy and as we approached a worse and worse situation for town.

i think scum have a hard time giving a fuck about the phase before lylo especially when they're doing well, and that's part of what we're seeing from these slots.

[innocentvillager]

DV's fake ass noraa tunnel seems like something he felt he had to continue for the sake of pushing another miselim/staying consistent. the ABR vote in 2413 has little progression and seems rushed

[innocentvillager]

the one thought i had is that dv is only scum if the exact team is dv/gama/ico and i don't know if that feels like the team

where does this come from?

[innocentvillager]

I am looking at a solve of dv/gamma/mwb

It makes more sense than the dv/gamma/ico solve i hastily came up with last phase

[innocentvillager]

midway and IV clearing the ABR wagon as to not have the full scumteam on ABR flip?

i don't know how that wagon on DV started, scum apparently had a good option with the ABR flip so would they start a counterwagon?

i think it’s pretty hard to argue that both me and DV are scum because i was singlehandedly the reason ABR almost didn’t get flipped

[innocentvillager]

detective
tracker/motion detector
fn/roleblocker
backup roleblocker

i'm a 1shot rb
iv claimed the disloyal hider thing

6 town power roles?

Ico i thought you were a 1shot neighborizer....

[innocentvillager]

I'm town

Here's the thing...

I don't think midway and peta are scum together

Which means it would be to be one of those two, plus gamma, plus iconeum

And that seems less likely to me than it being you

So yes @iconeum

I'm wondering if we've both been town this whole time

youve been deathtunneling this slot all game and now that everyone else has flipped town you are only now starting to think it’s more likely he’s town, not less??

okay

[innocentvillager]

detective
tracker/motion detector
fn/roleblocker
backup roleblocker

i'm a 1shot rb
iv claimed the disloyal hider thing

6 town power roles?

Ico i thought you were a 1shot neighborizer....

nvm I see it was a typo

I wanna say towntell for carelessness but it could also be lolcatting so probably just NAI

[innocentvillager]

I forgot about IV

I think they actually look worse for defending ABR, seemed like a TMI viewpoint

it’s really not tmi

I literally would have thought the slot was completely obvtown but whenever people (especially confirmed town) have the exact opposite opinion, that fucks With my head a lot and my confidence

I had a similar but less strong opinion on cakez, with ABR I was like, fuck it, I’m gonna fight for this shit I think is right this time

[innocentvillager]

I am looking at a solve of dv/gamma/mwb

It makes more sense than the dv/gamma/ico solve i hastily came up with last phase

The narrative here, is that they suspected a fuckton of town PR and just all planned to claim VT and less the TPR eat each other up

[innocentvillager]

midway and IV clearing the ABR wagon as to not have the full scumteam on ABR flip?

i don't know how that wagon on DV started, scum apparently had a good option with the ABR flip so would they start a counterwagon?

I feel like midway was just kind of on the wagon because DV scum fit his reads. He kind of just voted there and fucked off. Ico/dv/gamma started feeling less like the solve when all 3 of them starting slamming ABR together and voting exactly together. Mwb bussed before in a similar fashion in 2167 illicit, so it’s certainly not out of his scumrange

[innocentvillager]

im still very disappointed in town for being completely confbiased on ABR but whatever let’s leave thst for postgame, nothing we can do about it now

[innocentvillager]

Ico thoughts on my current solve?

[innocentvillager]

i took a shower and my thoughts were that probably one of the remaining PR claims is fake, and there's at least 1 in midway/gamma

this is your response to my question on why you think it’s ico/dv/gamma if dv is scum? It’s not me because I drove the DV wagon so it’s ico, the only remaining PR, and it’s not midway because dv/midway aren’t aligned, and definitely not Dunnstral for the same reason?

I agree with that logic up to mwb, and think we need to re-examine that slot

peta i think you’re town and if you vote town today we are completely screwed, not to stress you out more but we cannot vote a townie today or like ever

[innocentvillager]

sorry, i should make it clear that i also disagree there is a PR claim that is lying

specifically, i know im not lying (also, i think a point in favor of me being town is that my role synergizes well with Albert's role which I could not have known basically, and my role as a scum role is just stupid), and ico's role is like, kind of whatever so dont' think it changes the setup that much (remember this is Gypyx normal, he loves these kinds of wild setups)

[innocentvillager]

Ico thoughts on my current solve?

it's really hard putting a team together with no scum flips so far, but it's hard to see outside of scum!DV here

do you agree that if DV is scum, Dunnstral and I are almost certainly town?

[innocentvillager]

ico also you know that like, D2 onwards is very much not my scumgame lol, even D1 to a lesser extent

the current iteration of my scumgame is to hide in PT and not actually engage thread as much as possible

i tried expanding my scumrange in 2160 and i hated it so i gave up on that basically

[innocentvillager]

Ico thoughts on my current solve?

it's really hard putting a team together with no scum flips so far, but it's hard to see outside of scum!DV here

do you agree that if DV is scum, Dunnstral and I are almost certainly town?

i don't know why i'd agree to that

you think I hard drive up my partner when there is a real possibility of putting them at risk, potentially get called out for TMI on albert, and don't take the free ML?

you think noraa-dunnstral/dv is scum theatreing this whole time, since D1? (guess you have ptsd about theatre, lol!)

[innocentvillager]

daddisi is an exceptional rising star though

not to say noraa, DV and Dunnstral aren't exceptional players, but doubt they are going to smash their scumrange here and now

[innocentvillager]

and midway is such a low confidence player as scum that jumping off a wagon on a town pr to vote a teammate would be completely out of character for him

feel like low confidence scum player is not the same as unwilling to bus when it aligns with his reads? he has been saying DV is scummy all game, it's the perfect reason to bus as scum

it gives a me a little pause too i guess? but not enough to think he's not scum for it

and tbh, it makes more sense than ico/dv/gamma scumteam just hard buddying each other for the win

i re-ISO'd iconeum over the night and im not completely convinced? but it does looks townier than i thought

mwb was pretty convincing in the first part of illicit substances, this is a less intense plist so and he's gotten practice from illicit, so i don't think it's crazy that he's still able to engage the thread reasonably well this game as scum

[innocentvillager]

i kind of feel good about going dv -> gamma -> agonize over mwb vs. ico but probably take out midway

[innocentvillager]

i bet the dead thread is fun

wonder if they've been spoilered

[innocentvillager]

idk i guess i'd want to look at their trajectories on each other over the whole game but my impression is there was no need to bus at all there

it looks good at least? if dv is scum it looks good, if ABR flips it also looks good? with dv/gamma heavily suspected it makes some sense to try and establish MWB as the deeper wolf

[innocentvillager]

peta if you're scum congrats, you've won already

unless there's some crazy counter to my role (probably is, tbh, like an ascetic or something) im probably gonna be alive for a while? we'll see

[innocentvillager]

it is funny but like, if that's the direction the gamestate heads with dv/gamma being in almost everyone's solve? not crazy

[innocentvillager]

part of me hates being town in these scenarios because i feel like scum (pedit: and mods) are just laughing at me throwing solves around like an idiot

part of me likes being town on the off chance of solving the game and clutching the last minute W

feeling more like the former rn

pedit: oh hi sirius

[innocentvillager]

this just still is not an easy thing for me to buy, sorry

im not super convinced either but it felt more convincing than ico being the solve for some reason

let me think about it more and see if i can convince you or vice versa

pedit:

ico claims to be a 1-shot neighborizer

i claim to be town disloyal hider (if i hide behind town it's like i didn't submit any action, if i hide behind scum i die if and only if they die) i think that's how it works essentially when i hide behind scum

[innocentvillager]

i'm a 1shot rb
iv claimed the disloyal hider thing

What, I thought you were just the neighborizor, so you're a joat.

i'm a 1shot rb
iv claimed the disloyal hider thing

What, I thought you were just the neighborizor, so you're a joat.

typo

did you not already know..?

[innocentvillager]

hard not to get squinty eyes when iv is calling midway scum but both are saying to vote deasvail first

Yeah that’s a potential white flag gambit

can both of you explain what you're thinking here and what exactly susses you out?

[innocentvillager]

Also, having more PRs than VTs is sorta crazy.

again crazy is the default assumption when Gypyx is our mod!

[innocentvillager]

I'm reading Ico, IV, peta as town here

can you elaborate on whoever you care to? especially iconeum?

[innocentvillager]

what do you expect scum!MWB to do here then when no one townreads his partner and scum!MWB has been fake-scumreading scum!DV all game?

he did the exact same thing in Illicit to his partner plusjoyed when it became clear everyone scumread plusjoyed

im a little more worried (as in, it could possibly be town!indicative) about his actions yesterday when there was serious consequence to yeeting DV over ABR compared to his actions today

[innocentvillager]

scum!mwb probably just prepares for the 1v1 against ico somehow, since DV and Gamma are probalby toast

[innocentvillager]

there’s also something I’m like, incredibly worried about, but I’m not sure I want to discuss it here yet, need to think on it

[innocentvillager]

if you think he's self-conscious/low confidence as scum he's more likely to default to what he thinks he would do as town. Sometimes as scum we will do things just because town!us will, and maybe it'll look good even if it is on the surface slightly - for our wincon. I'm shit at scum so my scumgame has to fall back on that a lot because i can't convince myself to do a lot of things i probably wouldn't as town

im just trying to come up with more reasons for you to believe MWB/DV don't have to be not-partners

[innocentvillager]

maybe it's specifically to throw off me and Albert on the solve at that point in time and later everyone else (like you!), while partners DV and Gamma try to laugh Albert to the miselim. who knows

[innocentvillager]

Does anyone have strong feelings that Ico is town? Ico's always given me a town feel here and seems to be one of the more townread slots throughout but going with Ico town probably ends up leaving me with a Gamma/MWB/Dunn scumteam which doesn't quite

FEEL

right.

This reads like ur shopping for a flip, or like

testing the waters where you can push

'hey guys i do townread this ico fella buuuuuuuut…'

thoughts?

slimy ass wifom just ignore imo

[innocentvillager]

lol ok fine regardless it feels slimy for the reason you said

in a vacuum it probably can come from town because it seems like it could be a genuine thought? meh

[innocentvillager]

i think the thought process is:

I'm town!DV, I TR peta and IV reasonably well, I townread Ico on gut/tone/vibe but im less sure on that/want some more reasons to feel good about that read, so I want to see if anyone can bring up some compelling argument to TR him, so I can feel better or worse about my Gamma/Dunn/MWB solve that I'm already feeling meh about

[innocentvillager]

why would you wanna ignore it if you think it's slimey

part of it was joking

it certainly looks slimy especially when you framed it in the way you did where the scum!motivation is very clear

if I didn't think it could be a genuine town thought ever though I'd probably dig into it more

[innocentvillager]

like i already feel like the slot is... likely to be scum so this post didn't feel like it changed my read on him much

[innocentvillager]

i think the thought process is:

I'm town!DV, I TR peta and IV reasonably well, I townread Ico on gut/tone/vibe but im less sure on that/want some more reasons to feel good about that read, so I want to see if anyone can bring up some compelling argument to TR him, so I can feel better or worse about my Gamma/Dunn/MWB solve that I'm already feeling meh about

to expand, I can come up with reasons you are town but I'm still a bit paranoid so I had a similar thought to what it seems DV is expressing. for example, I asked dunnstral why he seemed confident on your being town all day today and even through yesterday, just because i don't feel comfortable completely locking in MWB over you if I had to choose in F3. Granted the way I asked was just plain and simple, more direct (so less posturing about my thoughts/fake thoughts), but that could just a posting style difference as well between me and DeasVail

[innocentvillager]

also, slightly worried this day/game ends before your weekend V/LA is up? lol

only slightly because, well, Albert is ded

[innocentvillager]

yeah i gotchu

im just trying to be extra wary of confbias in situations like this because I already think DV is scum, mostly for myself

[innocentvillager]

why surprisingly

[innocentvillager]

lol this game

I don’t even know anymore

[innocentvillager]

ico can you please please explain why gamma is town

[innocentvillager]

Town is demotivated
Scum doesn’t want gamestate to change
So nothing is happening

gamma if everyone were here right now, and they threw down a vote

who do you think gets a majority of votes?

Me probably

i think so too, and like

simple math says that means ur town because scum are obviously content with how this is progressing so…

that means

mdw/DV/dunn?

simple math? not understanding

[innocentvillager]

so you’re saying because gamma gets a majority of votes and scum didn’t do Jackshit, gamma is town?

if that’s it, I’m not sure I buy it, even though I see where it’s coming from

[innocentvillager]

so tbh, part of the reason I lurked over the weekend on purpose was because I wanted to see who gave a fuck and didn’t give a fuck

It’s clear that scum didn’t do jackshit

one of those players was gamma emerald

I don’t think gamma emerald gives a fuck about this game and has resigned to their elimination

And I don’t think that is a towny mindset

[innocentvillager]

so if gamma is a prime suspect as town why didn’t gamma do anything?

[innocentvillager]

I get that it looks like some town members might not have been giving a fuck either, but I also feel like if you are the prime suspect in everyone’s solve you don’t just give up and only go into “answering questions” mode

it is also noteworthy that gamma started ellitelling

[innocentvillager]

tbh the only reason I townread Dunn is because I totwmread noraa

[innocentvillager]

posting in other games and that’s all I’m allowed to say I believe

[innocentvillager]

my solve has been dv/gamma/mwb since n3 after swapping you for mwb and it hasn't really changed since

my confidence in this has wavered over time

my strongish townreads have been petapan then dunnstral

and i think you're town but if we get there id like to leave that to f3

[innocentvillager]

i think it is clear that gamma has no intention of proactively trying to get himself out of the elim

i think it's pretty likely that he's basically resigned himself/given up

question is:

is it defeated town who is burnt out by this game and just wants it to be over with?
defeated scum because we are on the right track?
defeated scum but doesn't give a fuck because we are not on the right track?

[innocentvillager]

i am leaning towards not the first one, especially because gamma has mostly been on the sidelines this game

which makes me go, okay, gamma is probably scum

at this point, maybe scumteam is banking on their other member(s) to finish it up, and that could explain the lack of action from other slots and just gamma as the universal scumread

if you are arguing scmteam doesn't bus here, your narrative of dunnstral/dv/mwb would suggest 2 out of 3 of them decided to LOLbuss DV over Albert yesterday, so clearly they are okay with bussing

[innocentvillager]

are 2 out of 3 scum really gonna be bussing their partner when there's a competing town wagon available is what i'm wondering here

(DV v ABR previous day)

both mdw and dunn were on DV, with DV being on ABR

that would make a ton more sense with either of mdw or dunn being town

if there' a

*if there's a deepwolf in peta for instance, then so be it

maybe that can be worked out with a solid flip here

and i see that you are worrying about this here

but then i wonder why not apply the same bussing logic to today

[innocentvillager]

I can't really do much rn, my engines are spent and I don't have auxilary power rn

i don't understand why town!Gamma is saying this when he is prime suspect and posting in other games and didn't play a huge part in this game

[innocentvillager]

here is some of Gamma Emerald's posting in a recent VT game of his

these are the last few posts they made before getting wagoned, on the day before ELo

though Gamma didn't flail around their elim in the same way that some town players have in this game (which is a small point in favor of their current posting being in their townrange), one of my takeaways (perhaps in a slightly confbiased way) is that they were more adamant about at least putting town into a good position going into ELo, and they were clearly focused on town's wincon, and at least invested it in.

Here I'm not really seeing that, posting into other games, literally going into just "ill post when the thread posts" etc, Gamma is not fighting for town wincon here, he is just posting easy answers to easy questions at him and not doing stuff unprompted. Basically I don't think Gamma gives up in this spot and that's what we've been seeing.

Spoiler: VT Gamma 2171 posting

Taylor and BM are not partners confirmed. I like that, I was town reading Battle Mage anyways now, so that's good.

Taylor is a little townier now because I expected them to not be Maf Doctor if they are scum, but they still have that chance.

Gamma
Pooky
Creature
Taylor
Battle Mage

I personally town read Battle Mage, and I want to town read Taylor.

I say fade Gamma. If Gamma flips town, then it's in the 4, one will be shot, then it'll be in the 3. and I just think BM is town here. so it'll be in the 2 left in the POE alive, meaning if we don't hit scum, then we still win if BM is town.

And honestly, I think Gamma flips scum.

If Gamma is scum doctor, then Battle Mage and Taylor are CONFIRMED town, meaning final scum is in Creature/Pooky.

If Gamma is scum not doctor, then damn scum is in the 4, but we have a pretty good scenario going,.

Okay, so here's what I think the plan should be.

If Gamma flips scum doctor, gunsmith Pooky, I'm shooting Creature. Ydrasse doctors Bob.
If Gamma flips scum not doctor, gunsmith becomes irrelevant, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors Flavor Leaf.
If Gamma is town, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors 1 of me and Bob, they don't say it out loud.

In theory, if Battle Mage is town, this always wins us the game, but this is a big if.

I personally think the team is Creature and Gamma or Gamma and Taylor.

I have a plan in mind that should at least maximize town’s chances to win. DO NOT end the day before I can spell it out.

Pretty much the big thing I need to figure out is what the full plan should be on a VT flip.

One thing I haven’t considered at this point is actually is whether limming someone who can only be mafdoc or VT is better than limming a possible nondoc scum. If we vote out the nondoc we land in a situation where there is no effective path to autowin.

I don’t want a “funny” outcome, I want a damn win

And like, we have 6 whole days. We can break this setup.
@Pooky very much, yes.

And like, we have 6 whole days. We can break this setup.
@Pooky very much, yes.

I don’t understand your hold up.

Already have broken it to its max potential.

There’s a lot of moving parts in the case a VT is voted out.

What do we lose by taking a few days? What does scum gain?

What happens in the case the vig shot is stopped by scum doc?
What’s the best way to utilize a no gun result within the remaining unchecked suspects?
Is it possible to turn a VT elimination into an assured town win?

I’m trying to think 3 steps ahead here. Nothing will stand in the way of my Mechanical Condamnation.

There’s more to a kill being stopped by scum doc than you’ve probably thought of. Think about what it might say for some player’s alignments. Doctors have a specific restriction to what they can do that makes things very interesting.

I’m sure you can figure it out. Think about how doctors work mechanically. What can they NEVER do, at least in a normal?

ok I can sort of see what you're getting at but that's like an absurdly long shot and requires things that are unlikely to happen in any time-stream.

Who do you think Flavor should target tonight on a VT flip?

I think the choices should be within BM and Tay in that case.

Honestly I really think Creature is town by play so the only way I accept a plan before I figure out what I'm working on is if he's the proposed survivor.

Honestly I really think Creature is town by play so the only way I accept a plan before I figure out what I'm working on is if he's the proposed survivor.

interesting

what has creature done to make you sure he is town?

Contribute to discussion. Like, a LOT. Flavor said it before, if Creature is scum this game, he's come a long way. Creature is the only person I will accept losing to.

Or he sees you letting BM pass you by and is fine getting wasted as long as his pal can get by you.

I want to see Taylor do this (if she's scum):

Gamma-Battle Mage
Pooky-Creature
Taylor-Battle Mage

Don’t make sense as teams or are cleared.

Gamma/Creature
Gamma/Taylor
Gamma/Pooky - this one is now less likely.
Pooky/Battle Mage
Creature/Battle Mage? Is this one possible?

Where's Tay-Pooky and Tay-Creature in this?

Taylor/Creature is unlikely because both were off Shelly, but I guess possible. This is dealt with, though, because Battle Mage/Taylor can’t be partners.

how?

Gamma-Battle Mage
Pooky-Creature
Taylor-Battle Mage

Don’t make sense as teams or are cleared.

Gamma/Creature
Gamma/Taylor
Gamma/Pooky - this one is now less likely.
Pooky/Battle Mage
Creature/Battle Mage? Is this one possible?

Where's Tay-Pooky and Tay-Creature in this?

They don't win in my plan because Creature gets gunsmithed, and Taylor is no gun cleared.

Why doesn’t Pooky/Creature make sense?

[innocentvillager]

I'm reading Ico, IV, peta as town here

I'm reading Ico, IV, peta as town here

can you elaborate on whoever you care to? especially iconeum?

You and peta = I have good gut feelings on today, Ico = good gut feelings on yesterday.

Though I'm not certain whether mwb is scum or not, so I dunno

lawl

You wouldn't react like this as town

I forgot about IV

I think they actually look worse for defending ABR, seemed like a TMI viewpoint

I'm reading Ico, IV, peta as town here

can you elaborate on whoever you care to? especially iconeum?

You and peta = I have good gut feelings on today, Ico = good gut feelings on yesterday.

Though I'm not certain whether mwb is scum or not, so I dunno

how did you go from thinking IV had TMI on albert to getting a good gut feeling on him today?

Their response, and I didn't know of their pr earlier

Once ABR flipped the next step was to use the snapback to get DV miselimmed.

Is this theoretical, or are you saying this is what is happening?

I think DV was already in a position where they were likely to be flipped next

I'd like to vote gamma today

^ for who

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This makes me feel kind of nervous even though it probably shouldn’t

Me or Iconeum?

I could be persuaded, but I'm not convinced right now

I'm reconsidering some things. I think the scumteam is Gamma/Iconeum/Midwaybear, or something close to that. The way Iconeum has treated both of our slots today feels very agenda driven, and like he's going for the win today

Gamma has a really bad solve (me/IV/mwb) and is transparently not playing as his town self

Midwaybear is poe, but he's arguing that the team is Gamma/Ico/you, so.... this read seems dubious

I'm acknowledging that this means I've had bad reads on you, Iconeum, and maybe MWB throughout this game. I think I misunderstood something with the prs that made Iconeum seem more likely town - I didn't realize IV was also claiming a pr, and it's possible for Iconeum's role to be scum aligned even if it's true

@Dunnstral Iconeum has a problem with you DV read evolution? I don't even seen anything in your ISO on your DV flip, why is DV no longer in your solve/how did your read change there?

[innocentvillager]

sorry that was supposed to be spoilered

anyway, the people who have been coasting today are:

innocentvillager (partly on purpose)
Iconeum (not even, just V/LA)
petapan (idk, he's just been paranoia/unsure or is faking it)
Dunnstral (but this is typical NAI Dunnstral)
midwaybear - they're ready to vote/have the solve and haven't been trying to push more discussion
DeasVail - they've been coasting all game, acknowledging that they haven't really done a ton this game, but still continuing to coast
Gamma - has given up

[innocentvillager]

I'm town

Here's the thing...

I don't think midway and peta are scum together

Which means it would be to be one of those two, plus gamma, plus iconeum

And that seems less likely to me than it being you

So yes @iconeum

I'm wondering if we've both been town this whole time

I started reconsidering things here

you think... that is a towny line from DeasVail that made you reconsider his alignment? I found it incredibly suspicious, how they've been gunning for your slot all game, we've seen like 6 town flips, and now he thinks you might be town???

[innocentvillager]

I’m like, probably going to vote gamma emerald in the next 24-48 hours unless ico or gamma has something really cool to say about that slot

[innocentvillager]

I'm town

Here's the thing...

I don't think midway and peta are scum together

Which means it would be to be one of those two, plus gamma, plus iconeum

And that seems less likely to me than it being you

So yes @iconeum

I'm wondering if we've both been town this whole time

I started reconsidering things here

you think... that is a towny line from DeasVail that made you reconsider his alignment? I found it incredibly suspicious, how they've been gunning for your slot all game, we've seen like 6 town flips, and now he thinks you might be town???

Reconsidering things is towny, not scummy

I think him appealing to me as scum is less likely than him continuing to push/appealing to somebody else

Maybe he is finally realizing that you are too townread tho? And I don’t think it’s a towny reconsideration in this instance because the probability of you being scum goes UP without other information after 6 townflips, not DOWN

[innocentvillager]

i don’t know Dunnstral

you are putting some doubt in my head about DV!scum which I was reasonably okay with for a while

[innocentvillager]

anyone have recent scumgame experience with ico?

The slot has a towny vibe but I wonder if he gives off this similar vibe as scum

[innocentvillager]

gamma/iconeum/midway could be the solve hm

i think im feeling gamma/midway as probable scum and DV/Iconeum has the hard f3 choice now

[innocentvillager]

you're in xylim for a reason,

In this scenario, the reason is because everyone else was a power role

yeah the you're here for a reason argument isn't super compelling this game

[innocentvillager]

anyway to continue analysis on Gamma, this is scum!Gamma from a game that literally just finished

gamma tried hard D1, posted a lot, did some convincing solving posturing that made me loltownbin them for solviness and breaking emotional scumrange, and even had this little fakeass blowup at our D1 town wagon (not dissimilar to what he did he with Shoshin).

the posting gradually got less and less involved, more sideliny, to the point where it seemed like he was just phoning it in. my townread deteriorated here over time

then, as scum were essentially cornered near the end (starting with me guiltying scum 1 out of 4 Glitch, starts in the spoiled ISO below), he's like, completely given up, and lolpushed a weird "existence of a traitor" gambit for one post

i have an easier time reconciling behavior in this game with scum!gamma from Large 230 than town!gamma from Mini 2171

Spoiler: scum Gamma posting in Large Normal 230

VOTE: Glitch
yeah dead slot is dead

The claims have been posted several times so missing them is just willful ignorance at this point

again there are SCUM ROLES that return NO GUN

mafia doctor and mafia traitor
you want me to go dropping fact bombs again? I'll freaking do it

does gunsmith make sense?

>:/

[innocentvillager]

im struggling from severe confbias

im starting to read DV latest posting as kind of towny

[innocentvillager]

i highly doubt either of you two are scum and if you are, well fucking done

i can't imagine this being Noraa's scumgame, despite Dunnstral being somewhat towny but overall much more ambiguous

i can imagine peta scum in some really strong peta deepwolf world but we're never going to eliminate that slot anyway

it's hard to imagine gamma as anything but scum at this point

similar but less strong for midway

[innocentvillager]

idk what to really say or do at this point. I'm ready to vote.

this is like, almost straight up openwolfing that he has nothing to say here

[innocentvillager]

theory is that MWB/Gamma/Ico are praying we go Gamma -> DV -> MWB v Ico and are setting up the Ico v MWB on f3 to make us think we're on the right track there, but hopefully running through DV on D5

it makes more sense to for scum to set up DV as a miselimination, especially with DV as the counterwagon to Albert on d5

this makes a lot of sense for a scum agenda, actually

[innocentvillager]

im not wording this well but what i mean is that, if DV is town, scum's agenda is certainly to set up DV for a miselim, regardless of how they try to do that

one such vector, that I'm positing above, is that they bus Gamma, gamma flips (so gamma is intentionally giving up rn to set up the narrative for Gamma/DV/? team), then we flashwagon DV the next day to stall Ico v MWB, and then scum wins on DV's flip

[innocentvillager]

Is there anything on the last 10 pages that isn't this same Cakez vs. ABR debate

Is there anything on the last 10 pages that isn't this same Cakez vs. ABR debate

That’s what I’m wondering too. It seems like people want us to post but seriously there’s only so much that’s worth saying

does not feel like a S/S interaction

i know i kind of brushed this off when I was forcing a Gamma/DV solve but the fact that this massively stuck out to me as not partnery after two independent skims means there is probably something here

[innocentvillager]

I'm acknowledging that this means I've had bad reads on you, Iconeum, and maybe MWB throughout this game. I think I misunderstood something with the prs that made Iconeum seem more likely town - I didn't realize IV was also claiming a pr, and it's possible for Iconeum's role to be scum aligned even if it's true

you wanna start talking about how scum!me just let a CONFIRMED TOWN live throughout N2, and instead killed Datisi (who was townreading me)?

yeah that's totally my play as scum this game...

you wanna start talking about how scum!me just happily claimed information about not one, not two, but THREE power roles and put myself in a corner with that? where is my agenda exactly?

iconeum has been using this self-defense a few times and like, I don't see how he expects us to auto clear him for this

first of all, ico thought the friendly neighbor was separate from the roleblock, and friendly neighbor does jackshit besides being... one confirmed town?

meanwhile, datisi even softed being a PR on D2, and im sure the scumteam can think of reasons to kill Datisi potential strong PR like Ascetic X over lol!FriendlyNeighbor. we don't have all the information as town, maybe they're informed, maybe XYZ idefk.

the agenda to soft a fuckton of power roles could easily just be to cast doubt on the 3 way IV vs Cakez vs ABR which happened to be all town. It was partly the reason we ended up eliminating SirCakez, so this can easily just be a thought process of "lol 3 TPRs claimed, i have actual info that there's like 3 more, town!me would out this info and i can even use crazy Gypyx setup to our advantage here")

the fact that Iconeum keeps repeating this is, a little weird, as if it's intentionally a WIFOM defense he is coming up with, but tbf it's probably NAI because i can see town doing that too even if it is a bit flawed.

[innocentvillager]

i don't actually get why that looks unaligned? it's just dv agreeing with gamma. there's no friction there at all.

it points more either towards DV being town, or DV being scum with not!gamma imo

idk, maybe this is more gut than logic, but I don't see lurkerscum!DV openwolfing here by actively confirming he is just sitting and watching the TvT instead of just not saying this or posturing something else, unless the purpose is explicitly to get town!gamma on his side

and i don't think it's partnery because openwolfyness. It reads genuine like he truly is agreeing with the sentiment that there's nothing to say and I don't think that happens if he is just hard agreeing with his partner gamma who is coming up with fake thoughts

[innocentvillager]

meanwhile, datisi even softed being a PR on D2, and im sure the scumteam can think of reasons to kill Datisi potential strong PR like Ascetic X over lol!FriendlyNeighbor. we don't have all the information as town, maybe they're informed, maybe XYZ idefk.

actually didn't ico explicitly say he thought datisi was ascetic lmao

yes, he did say that

as either alignment, he thought Datisi could have been Ascetic X

Datisi is a strong player and potentially could've been a huge asset to helping us solve today too, and Iconeum knows that as well

im saying there's plenty of reasons for us to not clear Iconeum on his claimed nightplay

[innocentvillager]

Ico was your 6 PR thing just outguessing-the-mod?

there were 3 claims out (ABR/IV/SirC)

I'm a 1x nb
i got blocked on N1, or my action didn't go thru at least (Original thought was that datisi was

ascetic

)
i got a message that VP is town on N1

3+3 = 6, but I failed to recognize that the FN was ALSO a roleblocker...

here

[innocentvillager]

nothing IV is doing here tells me they are outside of their scumrange, compared to Trainwreck 2175

later...

Iconeum
Gamma Emerald
petapan
DeasVail
midwaybear
Dunnstral
innocentvillager

its not outside the realm of possibilities
gamma+IV+midway

midway and IV clearing the ABR wagon as to not have the full scumteam on ABR flip?

i don't know how that wagon on DV started, scum apparently had a good option with the ABR flip so would they start a counterwagon?

sorry, i should make it clear that i also disagree there is a PR claim that is lying

specifically, i know im not lying (also, i think a point in favor of me being town is that my role synergizes well with Albert's role which I could not have known basically, and my role as a scum role is just stupid), and ico's role is like, kind of whatever so dont' think it changes the setup that much (remember this is Gypyx normal, he loves these kinds of wild setups)

like i said at the beginning of the day, there's + and - for your role here

it's entirely possible it's true, and it does synergize nicely
but there is also a confirmed scum blocker type role out there, and it's unaccounted for.

Ico thoughts on my current solve?

it's really hard putting a team together with no scum flips so far, but it's hard to see outside of scum!DV here

do you agree that if DV is scum, Dunnstral and I are almost certainly town?

i don't know why i'd agree to that

ico also you know that like, D2 onwards is very much not my scumgame lol, even D1 to a lesser extent

the current iteration of my scumgame is to hide in PT and not actually engage thread as much as possible

i tried expanding my scumrange in 2160 and i hated it so i gave up on that basically

the way i'm trying to approach this game rn is basicly 'who the fuck is my townblock'

every.single.townie has to allign today, or scum has to give us a hand here

me/peta
fair point about your scumrange

and like, i don't see me including DV into a town in 99% of the solves so...

i get that these are two separate points in the game, but this interaction definitely pinged me

so im like, completely within my scumrange from 2175 on D2, suggesting that he's thinking about that game when evaluating me a lot

the next day, he's clearly been thinking about (or at least pretending to think about) my alignment

then when i bring up the self-meta point how this is out of my scumrange, he immediately goes, "oh yeah, fair point, you're liekly to be town"

it pings because the first quote suggests that he is considering 2175 to evaluate me strongly, but somehow in reading me in between those time periods, im still a strong candidate for scum. Then all i have to do is bring the scumrange argument up again, and he flips 180 on me? really? im supposed to believe that he hasn't been thinking about my play in relation to 2175 this whole time, and only now was reminded of it?

it's certainly possible from town!ico, but i have to admit that this pinged me and reads as not a genuine read on me

[innocentvillager]

i'm a 1shot rb

that would be so funny if this was an actual scumslip

[innocentvillager]

just to let you all know i am here and confirming that the scumteam is not me/mwb/(not gamma)

[innocentvillager]

i skimmed his iso one last time to be sure and didn't see enough to make me doubt myself

VOTE: gamma emerald

This was the post where you voted me
You don’t actually state WHAT you expect, you just claim you haven’t seen it
I’m sure your SO must enjoy you a whole lot assuming you have one, because this is not good communication

LMFAO WTF GAMMA

[innocentvillager]

petapan new sig?

[innocentvillager]

petapan sorting gamma doesn't matter anymore

if you and gamma are town it's already gg

[innocentvillager]

sure i mean gamma is just scum at this point, for many reasons

lately it's the fact that the sharp bite in his tone seems to be more personally/communication fueled rather than actual game-content fueled, which is absolutely not a townie-mindset when you're about to be elimmed in lylo

[innocentvillager]

i think, the remaining discussion time (whatever's left of it at least) should be focused on who's scum with gamma

i think it's 2 out of 3 of {mwb, ico, dv}

and i think it's most likely mwb/ico at this point, but i haven't ruled out mwb/dv yet

[innocentvillager]

Mmm ok. I'm still leaning towards Gamma, but I'll skim through ISOs

Guys

?

[innocentvillager]

DV, from my perspective, I'm potentially kind of feeling you as town from how things have played out, but in a vacuum it's kind of hard to like, confidently townread you here

can you see why i might think that? what do you think makes you town this game

[innocentvillager]

Mmm ok. I'm still leaning towards Gamma, but I'll skim through ISOs

Guys

i don't know what you're trying to say there, the fact that he won't vote his supposed scumread says enough to me

are you just saying because mwb isn't current voting gamma, his supposed scumread, mwb is scum?

im not currently voting gamma despite thinking he is scum, but im not scum lol

[innocentvillager]

okay so peta, are you just deciding on gamma/mwb/ico vs gamma/mwb/dv for the solve?

[innocentvillager]

Also even if you’re town I also think IV is town and he’s well past the point-of-no-return on me it seems

yeah sorry at this point i don't think there's any way i don't vote you today gamma

[innocentvillager]

can you give us a little more DV? what are you solves rn and how do you feel about them

[innocentvillager]

sorry, im just trying to get more color/clarity on your stance

so your current solve is gamma/mwb/iconeum? you feel decent about that? if you're wrong where are you wrong?

[innocentvillager]

damn what’d I miss

I’m here and not trynna quickhammer attempt

[innocentvillager]

lmao why would I signal for the quickhammer attempt in the main thread instead of the scum pt

[innocentvillager]

even if either of them are vengeful and they shoot scum town still loses I’m pretty sure right

So there’s no reason for scum not to quickhammer here

[innocentvillager]

idk I feel like we’re gonna find out real soon if the team is gamma/dv/mwb or not

[innocentvillager]

how certain is everyone that scum would just have quickhammered town!gamma here?

pretty certain? mwb and dv just have to be online at the same time and they'd be spamming PT to check if they're online

it's not that hard to quickhammer

[innocentvillager]

iconeum, your posting the last few pages gives me vibe of caught scum who is upset because they expected to win, and town are getting onto the right track based on DV/Dunn interactions that look scummy even objectively

i get this vibe because i have done the exact same thing as scum before. I saw scummy behavior from a townie, but they were on the right track, and i got mad like "how are you not seeing this scummy ass behavior??"

pedit: i don't see gamma as town

[innocentvillager]

im reading your posts and i don't see why the Dunn/DV thing has to be scum blitzing

it could be real

[innocentvillager]

it's also just kind of an unnecessary risk that they would have had to have taken at start of day

[innocentvillager]

look im sorry if you're right and gamma is somehow town despite like, literally giving up when they're about to get eliminated in lylo

[innocentvillager]

i skimmed his iso one last time to be sure and didn't see enough to make me doubt myself

VOTE: gamma emerald

this vote happened 23 hours ago

you think MWB and DV didn't sync up at all in PT in that time period? seems quite unlikely for scum who are about to win

[innocentvillager]

simple math says that if ur *that* sure about scumerald, you'd have voted there by now

hence, ur not as sure as you are saying

which means part of what i'm saying is getting thru, right?

im still 90-95% sure gamma is scum

you're the reason im not at 99%, yes

[innocentvillager]

what risk exactly? why is the scum!you narrative that i posited so crazy? what's wrong with outing the existence of other stronger roles to doubt the current (d2) TPRs?

[innocentvillager]

i have seen scum disagree slightly on the nightkill and then use that as defense for why they wouldn't have made the kill

because they actually suggested a different kill but it was a close decision and the other scum members wanted the other thing!

i saw gamma!scum literally do this exact thing in Large Normal 230 where Gamma was the dissenting voice, he wanted to kill someone else but scummates didn't, so Gamma used that as his defense for why he would never have killed there

[innocentvillager]

gamma/iconeum/midway could be the solve hm

i think im feeling gamma/midway as probable scum and DV/Iconeum has the hard f3 choice now

gamma literally has no agenda in his play

scummy vibe from giving up? I get that
but he tried to reach out and work with me... vs DV and Dunn who magically alligned their reads all of a sudden?

come oooonnnnnnnn

the agenda is that he's burnt out frm playing all these scumgames and getting elimmed so he's not really trying anymore

or not trying for whatever other reason

maybe his last ditch gambit is to get DV miselimed tomorrow by making each other seem more partnery

theory is that MWB/Gamma/Ico are praying we go Gamma -> DV -> MWB v Ico and are setting up the Ico v MWB on f3 to make us think we're on the right track there, but hopefully running through DV on D5

it makes more sense to for scum to set up DV as a miselimination, especially with DV as the counterwagon to Albert on d5

this makes a lot of sense for a scum agenda, actually

nice theory

how does my hard defense of gamma fit in here? for this to actually be a thing, i'd be bussing gamma already, no?

this came after town did nothing for 3 days. i think you got greedy and changed strategies with all the town apathy you think you saw and tried to power a town vote onto town!DV or town!Dunn

im not wording this well but what i mean is that, if DV is town, scum's agenda is certainly to set up DV for a miselim, regardless of how they try to do that

one such vector, that I'm positing above, is that they bus Gamma, gamma flips (so gamma is intentionally giving up rn to set up the narrative for Gamma/DV/? team), then we flashwagon DV the next day to stall Ico v MWB, and then scum wins on DV's flip

sure, and i'm just straight up denying the bus as scum, who are setting up said bus? ???????

elaborated above

meanwhile, datisi even softed being a PR on D2, and im sure the scumteam can think of reasons to kill Datisi potential strong PR like Ascetic X over lol!FriendlyNeighbor. we don't have all the information as town, maybe they're informed, maybe XYZ idefk.

actually didn't ico explicitly say he thought datisi was ascetic lmao

yes, he did say that

as either alignment, he thought Datisi could have been Ascetic X

Datisi is a strong player and potentially could've been a huge asset to helping us solve today too, and Iconeum knows that as well

im saying there's plenty of reasons for us to not clear Iconeum on his claimed nightplay

i'm not saying my nightplay and claims fully or auto clear me, i'm saying they heavily suggest that

and 'just' a conftown? Not a thing. I knew this was gonna be a heavy pr game before entering (knowing gypyx as a mod). A CONFIRMEABLE townie is a HUGE kill. A datisi that is townreading me is a HUGE asset for scum!me.

autoclear? no
town!indicative? i think yes

you can always kill a confirmable townie later?

maybe you had info that Datisi was a strong PR that could actually get results from a rolecop on N1? idk

i just doubt that killing an innocent child has to be on the top of your priority list when there are a bunch of people

it is also kind of suspicious if they die and you've outted this info (but why out in the first place? because it fits your scum agenda and it looks town?)

idk ico, i can think of a whole host of reasons why you might not kill Baltar N2 as scum

i get that these are two separate points in the game, but this interaction definitely pinged meso im like, completely within my scumrange from 2175 on D2, suggesting that he's thinking about that game when evaluating me a lotthe next day, he's clearly been thinking about (or at least pretending to think about) my alignmentthen when i bring up the self-meta point how this is out of my scumrange, he immediately goes, "oh yeah, fair point, you're liekly to be town"it pings because the first quote suggests that he is considering 2175 to evaluate me strongly, but somehow in reading me in between those time periods, im still a strong candidate for scum. Then all i have to do is bring the scumrange argument up again, and he flips 180 on me? really? im supposed to believe that he hasn't been thinking about my play in relation to 2175 this whole time, and only now was reminded of it?it's certainly possible from town!ico, but i have to admit that this pinged me and reads as not a genuine read on me

so a weak reason to switch my read on you is scum!indicative of me

but ZERO reason from dunn to switch reads on DV is town!indicative?

gtfo

it's not town!indicative from dunnstral

i don't agree that it is obvscum either though

ok last shot

Does nobody find it strange that EVERY OTHER SLOT OUTSIDE OF ME AND GAMMA is fine by yeeting gamma?

i don't think it's as crazy as you think, this stuff happens to scum?

[innocentvillager]

i get that these are two separate points in the game, but this interaction definitely pinged meso im like, completely within my scumrange from 2175 on D2, suggesting that he's thinking about that game when evaluating me a lotthe next day, he's clearly been thinking about (or at least pretending to think about) my alignmentthen when i bring up the self-meta point how this is out of my scumrange, he immediately goes, "oh yeah, fair point, you're liekly to be town"it pings because the first quote suggests that he is considering 2175 to evaluate me strongly, but somehow in reading me in between those time periods, im still a strong candidate for scum. Then all i have to do is bring the scumrange argument up again, and he flips 180 on me? really? im supposed to believe that he hasn't been thinking about my play in relation to 2175 this whole time, and only now was reminded of it?it's certainly possible from town!ico, but i have to admit that this pinged me and reads as not a genuine read on me

so a weak reason to switch my read on you is scum!indicative of me

but ZERO reason from dunn to switch reads on DV is town!indicative?

gtfo

also, im not saying scumrange is a weak reason at all

im just saying i doubt that town!ico doesn't consider my scumrange from 2175 when evaluating me between these times periods, given that you were thinking about it before

[innocentvillager]

i don't have anything to add to my cases here, other then going around in circles

as for your 'elaborate please'

your point is that scum are setting up gamma to bus
your point is that i'm scum
i'm clearly not setting up gamma to bus
?????

i can't fight 5 other people on my own here
i can handle 1 or 2 scumbuts
but not 5

to be clear

i think the strategy was to let gamma get eliminated when everyone wanted gamma gone, and maybe setup DV as the partner so they get flash elimmed

then town did nothing for 3 days, and it perfectly overlapped with your V/LA so you could do whatever and just see what happens

you came back and saw town did nothing, and thought it was the perfect opportunity to drive town!gamma as a semi-plausible argument and power a vote onto DV for the win TODAY, because you thought town was just defeated and full of apathy

and now you are sticking to it because town is converging on the correct solve (maybe for the wrong reasons in your eyes) so you're flailing and getting upset and continuing your previous arguments

this is all very plausible to me, and im not saying i can't entertain alternative theories, but it's at least consistent

[innocentvillager]

iconeum please if you're town don't get frustrated work with us

the only thing that matters is winning, not being right or wrong

if you still think you're right let's talk it out

[innocentvillager]

did we just lose

[innocentvillager]

:/

[innocentvillager]

gg peta

[innocentvillager]

goodbye mafiascum

[innocentvillager]

should've just gotten midwaybear who was literally openwolfing

idk if we could've gotten iconeum over gamma D5

if we somehow did, and peta made it to f3 i would've been super suspicious of peta ?

meh, this was a long and unlikely path to town victory

well played scumteam

[innocentvillager]

there’s also something I’m like, incredibly worried about, but I’m not sure I want to discuss it here yet, need to think on it

i should've listened to this little paranoia thing in my head

i literally left the game for a few days to see if anyone was going to do anything

scumteam were clearly happy with the gamestate but I took that as a sign that scum thought we were just going to eliminate DeasVail no matter what, instead of my less likely alternative which was petapan was scum

so many oofs

i need some time to recover from this game, i actually invested so much into this only to get tunneled on gamma and lose -_-

[innocentvillager]

gypyx you were great, setup was great, everyone was great this game

no redactions from PT *cringe*

ICO YOU GOT YOUR REVENGE ON ME AND DATISI OKAY ARE YOU HAPPY NOW :cries:

[innocentvillager]

im sorry datisi i did not catch the mason softs from ico -_- i need to start looking for those