Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[innocentvillager]

Vote count 2.02

with 12 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2020-12-26 12:19:38).

elimination

2. Andresvmb [0]:

3. unwnd [1]:

Flavor Leaf#715

4. Flavor Leaf [2]:

Dunnstral#705, nopointinactingup#751

5. Hank Spankems [0]:

6. shellyc [2]:

Andresvmb#683, JohnnyFarrar#701

7. PlusJOYED [0]:

8. Not_Mafia [0]:

9. JohnnyFarrar [1]:

shellyc#744

10. geraintm [0]:

11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:

12. Dunnstral [0]:

13. nopointinactingup [2]:

PlusJOYED#681, Not_Mafia#685

no elimination [0]:

Not Voting [4]:

unwnd, TheFuzzyLogic99, Hank Spankems, geraintm

mod notes

Spoiler: vote log

Day 2 vote log

Post 681: PlusJOYED votes nopointinactingup
Post 683: Andresvmb votes shellyc
Post 685: Not_Mafia votes nopointinactingup
Post 701: JohnnyFarrar votes shellyc
Post 705: Dunnstral votes Flavor Leaf
Post 715: Flavor Leaf votes unwnd
Post 744: shellyc votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 751: nopointinactingup votes Flavor Leaf

[Andresvmb]

770 - unwnd I can’t fully understand what you’re saying here, so I’ll ask some questions.

Who do you think is pushing pre-determined executions? And who are you saying has reads without substance? If you’re speaking about my reads, I very much explained my read on Shellyc towards the beginning of today. Are you complaining about my TRs? I have made some arguments about nopoint before in D1. None of that has really changed.

If you’re speaking about Shellyc, she doesn’t have a choice. She had 3 people as Scum, one of which was NK’ed, one who claimed Cop (with no CC), and the other one who was the result of a check.

I also don’t get what being stubborn has anything to do with it. Flavor and Shellyc are stubborn, yes. So am I. So is Titus. What’s your point?

If you ask me, I think Flavor needs to more conclusively demonstrate why nopoint makes sense as the execution. There were some arguments about how the votes stacked up, but it’s an inscrutable argument because it has to assume that Flavor is Town, and no one knows that but Flavor. If you noticed, Flavor was voted yesterday by a Confirmed Town, and by Dunn/Not_Mafia at one point. Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

[Andresvmb]

^see 720. And that was about you unwnd, not nopoint. That last paragraph.

[unwnd]

770 - unwnd I can’t fully understand what you’re saying here, so I’ll ask some questions.

Who do you think is pushing pre-determined executions? And who are you saying has reads without substance? If you’re speaking about my reads, I very much explained my read on Shellyc towards the beginning of today. Are you complaining about my TRs? I have made some arguments about nopoint before in D1. None of that has really changed.

If you’re speaking about Shellyc, she doesn’t have a choice. She had 3 people as Scum, one of which was NK’ed, one who claimed Cop (with no CC), and the other one who was the result of a check.

I also don’t get what being stubborn has anything to do with it.

Flavor and Shellyc are stubborn, yes. So am I. So is Titus. What’s your point?

If you ask me, I think Flavor needs to more conclusively demonstrate why nopoint makes sense as the execution. There were some arguments about how the votes stacked up, but it’s an inscrutable argument because it has to assume that Flavor is Town, and no one knows that but Flavor. If you noticed, Flavor was voted yesterday by a Confirmed Town, and by Dunn/Not_Mafia at one point. Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

When I don't know what's going on or I can't follow the room, I start making my own interpretations. A lot of what I previously said is best described as looking at the big picture instead of small details. Why do you think we no-limmed yesterday? This is slightly rhetorical. It's because people can't decide what they want, and I believe this is

because

of predetermined elims. Like, people say 'I want X' as an example but getting your lim requires a bit more effort. There's not really anyone doing that and instead it's a lot of passivity which I'm starting to think is intentional. It's getting hard for me to distinguish posts between players because of this.

In regards to stubbornness, it attributes to the gamestate. You have people who are self-assured with just saying someone is scum is enough for others to simply agree and then accumulate votes. It's not that I'm requiring walls or deep intricate analysis, it's that I require some some sort of thought pattern to follow along with. I don't really feel like you answered my question and instead with 'well shelly does this'. Strip away your preconceived notions of shelly and tell me if she would make sense as scum just by the amount of attention she's accrued already.

[unwnd]

I don't disagree with Flavor but what you're asking for is like pulling fucking teeth

[Andresvmb]

Well okay I highlighted a few posts that I thought were bad. But the best comment in terms of how Shellyc is playing has been made by nopoint in 561. Johnny also thought it made sense. From looking back, it’s one of those posts that if you read more carefully, you quickly realize it probably comes from Town. That’s informing my perspective a bit.

I can only explain why I wasn’t more aggressive about getting consensus yesterday - because I didn’t realize it was a majority only elimination type game. This is my least favorite type of structure for a game actually, because you typically have to convince way too many people about a particular course of action and it is quite difficult to get a Scum execution this way. I mean, I think plus is Town for example (their pursuit of the truth strikes me as genuine). I also think they’re horribly wrong. Not uncommon for Town to disagree like this.

So yeah I don’t think having pre-determined eliminations in mind has anything to do with the outcome yesterday. I would more describe it as simple Town apathy. I’m still confused as to why you think that someone attracting a lot of attention cannot be Scum. It’s almost as if you think that Scum are so hard to find typically that they never attract attention early in the game. This is obviously not true.

[Andresvmb]

Like I don’t think this is *that* complicated either. Shellyc was pushing multiple players yesterday that are now either Confirmed Town or very likely Town mechanically. Pushing a Town player in and of itself is whatever - we can all be wrong. But the mechanical part of it - that was not planned. And so that is obviously forcing me to focus on Shelly again. The weirdest part (and Titus spoke about this too) is that shellyc had a universe where she thought {Not_Mafia, Dunnstral, Titus} could be Scum. But her vote to end the day was on nopoint. That clearly demonstrates that Shellyc wasn’t eager to compromise and consolidate, which is Scummy behavior in context.

[Andresvmb]

You’ll also remember that I had Shelly as my top TR yesterday. I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that my pre-conceived notions pointed to Shelly Scum, or that the argument I made was that Shelly’s meta pointed to her being Scum. But maybe you could point to where I did.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dunn
Not Mafia

Geraint
Andres

Shelly
Hank
Johnny

Plusjoyed
Fuzzy
Nopoint
Unwnd

Probably where I'm at.

I'd say at least 2 scum in bottom group, possible scum in that shelly, hank, johnny. But all 3 could be in that bottom.

@unwnd remember, Flavor is saying that all of the Scum are in {plusJOYED, Fuzzy, nopoint, you}. Do you buy that? Because I don’t. Hank should be in everybody’s suspicious or null pile, for example. plusJOYED is actually trying even if I think they have a few things wrong.

I specifically stated at least 2 scum in the bottom group in the post that you quoted, and said "but all 3", why the misrep?

I caught Plusjoyed earlier in the year, and they were trying there too, what's that have to do with it? I specifically stated scum can be in the 3 person group, which includes Hank. That is my suspicious/null pile.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you ask me, I think Flavor needs to more conclusively demonstrate why nopoint makes sense as the execution.

I don't want Nopoint as the execution.

I want Unwnd.

I'm unsure why you keep misrepping my posts? I don't feel like it's on purpose, if that helps, but you probably need to reread my posts.

I did my VCA on Unwnd already to explain Unwnd Scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

^see 720. And that was about you unwnd, not nopoint. That last paragraph.

ah, okay, this is better.

Yeah, I already stated my Unwnd reasoning with my VCA.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Spooky Johnny here worrying everybody.

What’s your solve right now?

Honestly? Hank Shelly flavy. I agree plus and unwnd are too pushy to be scum here. I think they're just wrong. You're a good tinfoil but on the real if you're scum I'm almost willing to throw this game now. Gera is also a big ???

Flavy isn't playing all that different from last game, tho.

[Flavor Leaf]

1.04

Flavor Leaf

[3]: nopointinactingup#293, unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343

1.05

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Not_Mafia [2]:

Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365

Dunnstral

[3]:

Flavor Leaf#381,

Andresvmb#403, nopointinactingup#548

1.06

shellyc [3]: nopointinactingup#599,

Titus#638

, JohnnyFarrar#647

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Unwnd is scum by VCA. 1.04 to 1.05 no point looks like scum trying to get off the wagon that looks to be gaining, but the Not Mafia wagon likely has a scum on it, which does fit with my Plus theory.

Like even if someone thought I was scum, Unwnd is scum based on 1.05/1.06, where another scum is in the other 4, at least 1.

You can look at the unflipped here and see it's exactly how my reads list lined up which is what helped me get to the spot I was at.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavy isn't playing all that different from last game, tho.

Explain how

[JohnnyFarrar]

Like backed off, chill vibe giving the impression of being burnt out and sick of winning. I'm aware that can be true regardless of alignment, which is why I'm not pushing it. Just worth saying. And I think the similarity puts you above Gera in my poe

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't believe I had that at all last game

[Flavor Leaf]

I had a sick obsession with fading a mason last game, and did the work so I'd be able to do so, and failed.

I don't get how that came off as chill for you, haha.

Are you mixing this game with earlier this game?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Johnny - I also had you, Titus, Andres, Not Mafia, Geraint, and Hank who had all just gotten beaten by me, why would I be playing the same game?

I have 6+ different types of scum playstyles, people who think they were onto me from playing 1 game with me like Kkoba is kinda funny.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am 90% sure Unwnd is scum, and I would have been okay flipping them with a coinflip odds.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'm referring to earlier that game, before I died when I was paying better attention

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like Unwnd is also trying to match his progression of me in Xenoblade, but I think it looks fake.

Him and I went at it all Day 1 there, then Day 2 he town read me, and I town read there.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm referring to earlier that game, before I died when I was paying better attention

Day 1 was only 12 pages, and you came in early Day 2.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Yeh

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm past that, you gave a solid response, I think.

But you're missing Unwnd in your solve.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also beat Dunnstral earlier in the year in one of my stronger scum games of the year in a final 3p lylo situation.

and as town, I caught PlusjoyedScum.

This is not a game I would have played scum "normally". I don't feel I have, but I think if you sense some similarities, it's because my scum game is strong with mimicking my town game.