Mini Normal 2181 | College Basketball Players | Game Over

[borkjerfkin]

do you think that my assumption that there's scum in the cohort is incorrect?

because cabd is dead or because some other reason?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Right, but why is this town indicative?

I hate to make the case against myself here but you just watched me obsess over a game for months as town, pouring over the entire 180 page game like 6 times, while in my most recent scumgame I outright abandoned Isis and refused to play because I thought the town wasn't worth playing against. Even back in 2018's The Thaw that I linked earlier I called my scumgames "surgical snoozefests" so I don't exactly have a record of excitement.

would you say this town is "unworthy" of your talents?

[skitter30]

do you think that my assumption that there's scum in the cohort is incorrect?

because cabd is dead or because some other reason?

?
i mean i think that in the living cohort there is probably scum. do you agree with that assessment y/n?
not sure what cabd dying has to do with it

[Prism]

I'm not going to dive into outlining some fantasy scum world, I'd rather just ask you to answer the question about your belief. If this is some weird Socratic dialogue at illustrating your thinking, I'd rather skip it.

[borkjerfkin]

i mean i think that in the living cohort there is probably scum. do you agree with that assessment y/n?

I thought you had a specific reason for asking me that that might lead into some discussion as to why my ffery or noddy reads are wrong.

[skitter30]

i mean ultimately that's where i'm going, yes
from my pov that's the simplest explanation for the fucky gamestate, and of the three, i think it's most likely you (a lot of that is riding on cabd swearing that ffery is town but like i independantly do not townread her)

like if you have an alternate explanation for how this game (esp. day2) have played out, i'm happy to hear it
like i'm also not super happy that you're kinda just settling for pooky when we know there has to be two scum alive also

[borkjerfkin]

settling

kind of a weird thing to say. how am I setting? I am voting my strongest read. Don't know why that changes regarding the number of scum left

[Prism]

Skitter, can you give a more concrete outline of what you mean by "gamestate"? What are the confounding factors/conclusions/assumptions being made about the past here?

[borkjerfkin]

like if you have an alternate explanation for how this game (esp. day2) have played out, i'm happy to hear it

What exactly are you trying to argue here? Even if I did understand why the gamestate makes them more likely to be scum, I don't feel like I need to have an alternative explanation even if I don't agree

[fferyllt]

In this game, I've done my best not to give him emotional content to "sign off" on. And he's not pushed me very hard about my vaguely expressed concerns, especially after day 1.

I feel like I sort of launched this approach to reading him almost from the beginning, though I didn't come into the game with this as a plan for sorting him. And I also haven't pursued it as strongly as I should have, especially day 2.

Can you quote a few specific posts/times throughout the game where you feel you where taking this approach to him and/or where you feel like his response to you was off

(I.e. one or two examples of both would be helpful)

This is probably more than you want, but here are the interactions with bork that stuck with me because they felt slow-motion, spread out and unresolved.

This is a place where I felt like bork didn't follow up about my not interacting more directly when I brushed him off. It was one of our first interactions in the game.

Spoiler:

Forget bridesmaid. I'm just here as the wedding caterer this time.

borkthoughts?

Forget bridesmaid. I'm just here as the wedding caterer this time.

borkthoughts?

Nah.

Really don't want to pick at either bork or prism rn.


More interested in hecticalt and vax homework for tonight's insomnia dose.

this is...not really what i expect from either of you after last game

What were your expectations?

engagement / attempt to wade through your initial wariness / pinging off each other

engagement / attempt to wade through your initial wariness / pinging off each other

I'd love to outsource my read of you but that's probably not going to be possible. Probably not optimal either.

I'm telling him he's not giving me a sense of being sorted, and he's telling me he expects more interaction a la the illicit game. I got no sense of being weighed up here. I'm including syr's post to me about bork for the context of my last post.

Spoiler:

Bork, you're scaring me.

Bork, you're scaring me.

In what way and why right this second? I'm curious as to where you expected me to go w/ 318

my worry's been growing. I'm not getting any sense of being sorted by you.

I'm not sure how I should expect you to approach sorting me after the illicit game. :/

Bork, you're scaring me.

In what way and why right this second? I'm curious as to where you expected me to go w/ 318

my worry's been growing. I'm not getting any sense of being sorted by you.

I'm not sure how I should expect you to approach sorting me after the illicit game. :/

I'm probably going to deal w/ people differently every game. That's just my way. I had a limited townread of you after the first couple pages.
Was kind of waiting to see where you'd end up w/ cabd - I like syr a little better for pressing you on it a la 297.
Any further response to my 192?
Where are you at w/ Syr now?

I expected from the outset that you'd be wary after illicit - I felt like pondscum every time I had to interact w/ you guys that game and basically resort to emotional manipulation at every turn, and so much of my play was devoted to getting your slot on my side that it became really exhausting and my play in other areas suffered for it. so yeah, I expected this kind of post last night vs anything about outsourcing to someone else, I guess.

192 was my post? Assuming that's what you wanted to link, my impression of Vax's play at that point was that he wanted to rachet the highest votecounts and see what shook loose. What was your impression of Vax's play to that point?

I didn't really interpret Syr's post as pressing me. More about wanting my impression of Cabd at that point. After the smoke-filled game he should know a lot about how I develop a read on Cabd.

I was ok with Syr's line of questioning. It showed a lot more thought process than I was getting from his earlier content.

Bork, you're scaring me.

Why? I thought he turned it up a few notches going after with skitter with prism.

syr's posts kinda bad through page 10

Motherducker you take this back. That was some PRIME quality shitposting.

Bork, you're scaring me.

In what way and why right this second? I'm curious as to where you expected me to go w/ 318

my worry's been growing. I'm not getting any sense of being sorted by you.

I'm not sure how I should expect you to approach sorting me after the illicit game. :/

And my question sort of answers itself. You say you don't know what to expect from bork, but you clearly expect SOMETHING or he wouldn't be freaking you out. What's got your knickers in a twist?

Exactly. I expected SOMETHING that gave me a sense of being sorted.

Bork, if you're holding back here, don't. you did what you had to do in that game and you did it well enough to keep me off balance. No hard feelings.

On day 1 after this we did some back and forth with bork pushing me for my reasons to townread Prism and me not really engaging him or providing what he asked for. This wasn't all strategy to get some kind of AI reaction from bork. Most of day 1 was a struggle to get caught up and stay caught up. When I finally posted my mini-wall about what I liked about Prism, he said he was dissatisfied that it was basically a tone read (it wasn't). I asked him if it affected his Prism read and he said no. And that was kinda...it? he just stopped pushing me, but there was no ah ha moment where I felt like he saw a town thought process from me even if we disagreed. And I feel like town-bork would want that.

The posts:

Spoiler:

Who did it fail to reach? I can only think of ffery.

ffery, cabd, syr, none of whom really engaged me on anything i ever put

I've kind of boarded up a wall regarding you this game, which isn't fair to you as either alignment.

^^ That's an invitation.

This next one started well. He's pushing me for not answering his questions. Then I post my prism-town thoughts.

Is a Prism wall going to help? You probably won't get a wall, but w/e.

Yes

Is a Prism wall going to help? You probably won't get a wall, but w/e.

Yes

Hope you're still around. Shit happened.

I like the way they've pushed back on my various reasons for townreading them (which you could have found if you were reading my posts, instead of just coming back to the same thing with me every time you re-engage) as flawed is also probably more of a town thing than a scum thing. I do this as both alignments, but tend to keep at it more as town. In that vein they'll probably hate just about everything I cite here!

The trajectory of their scumread of Skitter based on posts about the you/Prism swirl feels unforced to me, like it's real things they're thinking.

The way they tried to rethink their focus on you before doubling down looks town, though it's probably a weak indicator.

Their coolness under pressure (getting to E-2? Is that a thing that actually happened?) felt town.

Their dance with petapan and the level of skepticism has a decisiveness and persistence that looks town. I'm watching both sides of that dance because if one of them is scum, I think there will eventually be a falter of some sort.

Some of the posting what I'm thinking or maybe should be thinking examples, (this is not as tight a linkage as I'd usually want but that's my fault for being in a fog for parts of the game)
- The Vax discussion with Skitter30 (which was part of my not liking Skitter at that point), and a lot of the further interactions up to the point where Skitter and I had a go-around. Their interactions still resonate probably more than anything else outside my own interactions with Skitter.
- The post about Syr/Cabd/Me gave me a small stake in the ground in terms of figuring out how I felt about our interactions at that point

The thread blew up after that with the wagon on Syr, and I think bork would have just let that interaction go by the wayside if I handn't prompted him. Which, given the way the gamestate had changed I didn't and don't think is AI.

bork I know it's left in the dust but anything to say about my prism town post?

bork I know it's left in the dust but anything to say about my prism town post?

I'll admit I completely lost track of this due to recent events. Let me go back and look

Hope you're still around. Shit happened.

I like the way they've pushed back on my various reasons for townreading them (which you could have found if you were reading my posts, instead of just coming back to the same thing with me every time you re-engage) as flawed is also probably more of a town thing than a scum thing. I do this as both alignments, but tend to keep at it more as town. In that vein they'll probably hate just about everything I cite here!

The trajectory of their scumread of Skitter based on posts about the you/Prism swirl feels unforced to me, like it's real things they're thinking.

The way they tried to rethink their focus on you before doubling down looks town, though it's probably a weak indicator.

Their coolness under pressure (getting to E-2? Is that a thing that actually happened?) felt town.

Their dance with petapan and the level of skepticism has a decisiveness and persistence that looks town. I'm watching both sides of that dance because if one of them is scum, I think there will eventually be a falter of some sort.

Some of the posting what I'm thinking or maybe should be thinking examples, (this is not as tight a linkage as I'd usually want but that's my fault for being in a fog for parts of the game)
- The Vax discussion with Skitter30 (which was part of my not liking Skitter at that point), and a lot of the further interactions up to the point where Skitter and I had a go-around. Their interactions still resonate probably more than anything else outside my own interactions with Skitter.
- The post about Syr/Cabd/Me gave me a small stake in the ground in terms of figuring out how I felt about our interactions at that point

This just seems like it boils down to "tone/gut" to me and that it's more designed to make me satisfied that you believe it rather than convince me I'm wrong

Also I feel that you've slapped my hand away again after "inviting" me (your words) by just suggesting i should read your posts and I'd have all the answers I want

Hope you're still around. Shit happened.

I like the way they've pushed back on my various reasons for townreading them (which you could have found if you were reading my posts, instead of just coming back to the same thing with me every time you re-engage) as flawed is also probably more of a town thing than a scum thing. I do this as both alignments, but tend to keep at it more as town. In that vein they'll probably hate just about everything I cite here!

The trajectory of their scumread of Skitter based on posts about the you/Prism swirl feels unforced to me, like it's real things they're thinking.

The way they tried to rethink their focus on you before doubling down looks town, though it's probably a weak indicator.

Their coolness under pressure (getting to E-2? Is that a thing that actually happened?) felt town.

Their dance with petapan and the level of skepticism has a decisiveness and persistence that looks town. I'm watching both sides of that dance because if one of them is scum, I think there will eventually be a falter of some sort.

Some of the posting what I'm thinking or maybe should be thinking examples, (this is not as tight a linkage as I'd usually want but that's my fault for being in a fog for parts of the game)
- The Vax discussion with Skitter30 (which was part of my not liking Skitter at that point), and a lot of the further interactions up to the point where Skitter and I had a go-around. Their interactions still resonate probably more than anything else outside my own interactions with Skitter.
- The post about Syr/Cabd/Me gave me a small stake in the ground in terms of figuring out how I felt about our interactions at that point

This just seems like it boils down to "tone/gut" to me and that it's more designed to make me satisfied that you believe it rather than convince me I'm wrong

Also I feel that you've slapped my hand away again after "inviting" me (your words) by just suggesting i should read your posts and I'd have all the answers I want

I'm not slapping your hand away. I'm trying to take a can opener to my head and let you have a look inside.

I AM annoyed that you haven't read my iso regarding Prism. Given the extent of your tunnel or Prism I don't think I can directly convince you you're wrong. If you acknowledge that I at least have reasons to think what I think about Prism, that should mean something?

If you acknowledge that I at least have reasons to think what I think about Prism, that should mean something?

It does mean something or I wouldn't have asked. I still stand by what I just said; I don't think "seems like they believe what they say" or their tone under pressure is a really high bar to hit as scum. I don't consider myself a good scum player and feel like I hit all those tonal marks in IS pretty handily.

He's saying he's not satisfied with what I gave him. there, but it didn't go anywhere after that.

Since day 2 it feels like he's basically been hands-off as far as continuing to sort me. I'm not really push-able since syr's flip, but I feel like there's stuff that town him would question anyway, like he'd be jumping on things and questioning assumptions about me. On reread, his day 1 interactions weren't as awful as I was remembering. But they did NOT have much bite given he was expressing a lot of dissatisfaction about me and I wasn't jumping through hoops for him. Partly because there were no hoops!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm not going to dive into outlining some fantasy scum world, I'd rather just ask you to answer the question about your belief. If this is some weird Socratic dialogue at illustrating your thinking, I'd rather skip it.

I think scum!you would put more effort into this game than town!you.

[skitter30]

Skitter, can you give a more concrete outline of what you mean by "gamestate"? What are the confounding factors/conclusions/assumptions being made about the past here?

it's like a ~nebulous~ concept that i have a very good sense of in my head but is very hard to put into words
but i shall try

basically, yesterday i tried very, very very hard to find a wagon that i didn't hate, and couldn't. all the options felt wrong, and didn't make sense together as a coherent scumteam no matter how hard i tried. usually when i feel like that it's because the entire scumteam *isn't* in the group of people that i'm looking at - one of my assumptions in clearing somebody is wrong and that's why i can't make a coherent scumteam out of the people in the scumpool

to me, the obvious assumption that was wrong is that the entire (living) cohort was scum free because that's what placed the limiting factor upon available/possible scumteams. once we listen up that assumption it's possible to look at the game and have it make sense holistically

yesterday's gamestate toward eod (i.e. namely that long slow inevitable slide toward what i was very confident would be a town!elements flip) basically happens in my experie when scum are super content with the gamestate and have little incentive to, like, do anything (which was proven right upon the actual elements townflip). to me that points to scum being in people who just didn't care abt where the wagon was going and were happy to let cabd/notsci make the decisions

when you put those things together you the names 'bork' and 'ffery' pop out, and that's why they're my number one suspects today
does that kinda explain what i'm thinking better?

if bork doesn't like that conclusion i want to know what scum were doing yesterday while watching elements happen (second point) and why he's basically coming down to 'i have some reason to townread like everyone except pooky and prism so i'll vote pooky' (first point)

and just overall his reads today are, well, kinda meh and uninspiring and just feel like where scum would be pushing - pooky and prism are a lot easier than, say, notsci (or myself). and since i can't really follow *why* he's come down to that conclusion it makes me wonder if there really is anything to it beyond 'those are convenient reads for me to have rn'

[skitter30]

bleh typos: *loosen up that assumption

[skitter30]

settling

kind of a weird thing to say. how am I setting? I am voting my strongest read. Don't know why that changes regarding the number of scum left

like if you have an alternate explanation for how this game (esp. day2) have played out, i'm happy to hear it

What exactly are you trying to argue here? Even if I did understand why the gamestate makes them more likely to be scum, I don't feel like I need to have an alternative explanation even if I don't agree

i feel like i answered these but if i didn't lmk and i'll try again

[skitter30]

ffery that's a very content-y post so let me just reread and process and will get back to you
i guess my biggest question atm is why have you been letting your bork concerns slide till just a few hours ago?

[Prism]

That does help explain a lot, thanks. There are followups but none that I think would pose a serious challenge to answer as scum so I'll save it. Ideally I crosscheck it for consistency but we'll see.

I don't really know where I'm at readswise now that DGB is probably a bad vote.

[Prism]

Ughhhhh I'm gonna have to read the game.

[Prism]

I guess I can be more interactive with that wall actually, even if more out of gratitude, gimme a sec.

[fferyllt]

If you acknowledge that I at least have reasons to think what I think about Prism, that should mean something?

It does mean something or I wouldn't have asked. I still stand by what I just said; I don't think "seems like they believe what they say" or their tone under pressure is a really high bar to hit as scum. I don't consider myself a good scum player and feel like I hit all those tonal marks in IS pretty handily.

That's not what got you my townread in IS though. Not even close.

ffery that's a very content-y post so let me just reread and process and will get back to you
i guess my biggest question atm is why have you been letting your bork concerns slide till just a few hours ago?

back from foodtelling

They didn't slide entirely, they went on the back burner yesterday because notsci had him as strong town and Cabd didn't want to go there.

Also to some extent you being the one who was still pushing him didn't sit all that well. Which is not a rational thing, but it's there anyway.

[Prism]

to me, the obvious assumption that was wrong is that the entire (living) cohort was scum free because that's what placed the limiting factor upon available/possible scumteams. once we listen up that assumption it's possible to look at the game and have it make sense holistically

I think this is easier for me given that I never had bork as town to begin with. I felt very comfortable with notsci/Cabd town and almost as comfortable with ffery.

yesterday's gamestate toward eod (i.e. namely that long slow inevitable slide toward what i was very confident would be a town!elements flip) basically happens in my experie when scum are super content with the gamestate and have little incentive to, like, do anything (which was proven right upon the actual elements townflip). to me that points to scum being in people who just didn't care abt where the wagon was going and were happy to let cabd/notsci make the decisions

What you're saying here is definitely true imo, but this does give me two concerns about you.

First, I think yesterday was a great chance to just whiteknight/refuse to be on the wagon given that enough town were willing to just shut their brain off and vote with their friends. The fact that you seem to be looking primarily onwagon kind of confuses me. This might be just a difference of opinion, but looking at this from my perspective:

The offwagon squad was me, you, DGB, benhalkum, and Elements. Ele was town. Ben is confirmed town/can only be scum with me. This is what makes me think I actually might have to deal with you being scum and run interference instead of putting it off until the end of time. I've never thought you were very town to begin with (most of your positioning has felt extremely strategic to me), and with the Elements flip I'm much more skeptical for this and the PoE narrowing to begin with. Part of me says "Who cares? Just let her steamroll.", part of me does want to run interference.

Second, with the above in mind, and the knowledge that I have openly refused to reread you despite promising to for literally like a month now, you just......really aren't worried about it. I'm not in your PoE/high priority is plausible. I'm sure if I asked why you'd be able to cook something up without much trouble. But

leaving me be is extremely beneficial for scum Skitter

.

tl;dr: Yeah I know I have to read the game, I don't want to, conflicts conflicts.

and just overall his reads today are, well, kinda meh and uninspiring and just feel like where scum would be pushing - pooky and prism are a lot easier than, say, notsci (or myself).

I agree with this but these pushes line up extremely well and make total sense given his play yesterday. What bothers me more is that he's spent all game playing like he's on thin ice by holding back for large swaths of it.

[fferyllt]

I also wanted to see Vax's reaction to dgb's investigation.

It looked pretty town to me.

[Prism]

Vax honestly might be the hardest person in this game for me to read somehow. They've got spurts of looking genuine but the early ones, which are stronger, I kind of coached out of him, while the later ones are weaker but came more from himself.

[skitter30]

Also to some extent you being the one who was still pushing him didn't sit all that well. Which is not a rational thing, but it's there anyway.

i mean from my pov that's +scumpoints, not -scumpoints
(not inherently that *i* was the only one scumreading him, but more that there was only one person scumreading him and it just wasn't getting traction, which is weird when you compare it with elements)

[Prism]

The offwagon squad was me, you, DGB, benhalkum, and Elements. Ele was town. Ben is confirmed town/can only be scum with me. This is what makes me think I actually might have to deal with you being scum and run interference instead of putting it off until the end of time. I've never thought you were very town to begin with (most of your positioning has felt extremely strategic to me), and with the Elements flip I'm much more skeptical for this and the PoE narrowing to begin with. Part of me says "Who cares? Just let her steamroll.", part of me does want to run interference.

I missed the section about DGB here-I've had a gut townread on it most of the game, everything it said about me Day 1/Day 2 was generally correct and I see exactly why it pushed me. I really just didn't like the opening of today+the roleclaim given what had flipped...but given the amount of town power I saw opening up a few normal games, balance wise it suddenly became a lot more plausible.

[Prism]

Pooky is also just capable of so much more here. I know I'm one to talk but the amount of analysis from them this game is really underwhelming.