Newbie 656 Game Over!

[lifeofpie]

For starters, it wasn't really a bandwagon vote and it was more of a joke vote. in the ensuing scummyness, I decided that he (Drifter) seemed to deserve the vote. There was no point in changing or altering the vote, as it would likely make a beeline back to him.

Fenchurch & all you other non-believers: I compliment. I'm serious, if you don't like it then there is something seriously wrong here. I take this game with a casual attitude, but am still perfectly serious about it (wait, maybe that's kind of contradictory). The insults were not serious, as, hopefully, pointed out with the smileys.

More later.

[ShadowLurker]

thegeckoj - I'm suspicious of his predecessors for disappearing... Hmm.
IC's: This game has IC's? Well, I was kinda suspicious on one of them for defending me when I thought I shouldn't have been, which was kinda weird. I think it was thinktank, but since both of their avatars changed, I forgot. >.> Currently no real reads on either though.

It's page 10 and you still haven't distinguished between us?

[Fenchurch]

Fenchurch & all you other non-believers: I compliment. I'm serious, if you don't like it then there is something seriously wrong here. I take this game with a casual attitude, but am still perfectly serious about it (wait, maybe that's kind of contradictory). The insults were not serious, as, hopefully, pointed out with the smileys.

It's not the complimenting I find especially suspicious, it's the complete reversal of behaviour once it was pointed out. But you've explained it as joking, and other players seem to think I've misjudged, so I will leave it at that for now.

---

As for Drifter, I was going to post that I would also be happy to cast the hammer-vote. I think the odds are 50:50 that he's scum or not, and that may be the best we get today. Certainly his play has been the most odd and irrational, which I guess would be silly for the town to let pass.

But at the same time, I feel uncomfortable about some of the votes on his bandwagon, and I think that he could be a convenient target for a mis-lynch.

thegeckoj's vote for Drifter, whilst it makes sense (because I am feeling the same way), it also seems like an easy play. Analysing a replacement is awfully hard, given that he:
- has a damn-perfect reason for not having posted for the last 8 pages
- has the advantage of being able to read up on all of us before making his own move
- is not responsible for, and therefore unable to account for, the actions of his predecessor.

And Sion, whilst I suspected him, didn't stay here long enough to really condemn himself, so it's hard to build up a case based on his actions alone.

Ugh.. hedging my bets, I guess. I've reached a point in the game where I find

everyone

more or less suspicious, and wouldn't be surprised to discover any of you as scum, so it's hard to know which way to turn.

I'd like to get a prod on Drifter, and find out whether he's still around or not, and then take it from there.

[Fenchurch]

thinktank: Please post something, we haven't had anything from you apart from placeholders for about a fortnight, and it looks you are still posting in other games.

thegeckoj: If we lynch Drifter today and he flips town, then based on the current information who would you judge most scummy? Do you think it is time to lynch Drifter yet, and if not, what should we be waiting for?

Artem: Hmm... could you answer the same two questions as above, please?

[thegeckoj]

[quote="Fenchurch"]thegeckoj: If we lynch Drifter today and he flips town, then based on the current information who would you judge most scummy? Do you think it is time to lynch Drifter yet, and if not, what should we be waiting for?
[quote]

if drifter is lynched and he comes up town i would probably be at a loss who is scum, perhaps at least one of the people in on the lynch. of course it is opportunisitic to say, but if he comes up scum i will have a pretty good idea who likely is his partner.

i am content with lynching Drifter, if i wasnt i wouldnt have put him at L-1, i feel we have a good enough idea and i think our chances of him being scum are better than your 50/50, more like 80/20.

[lifeofpie]

Fenchurch
Also, I believe I said that I was joking on page 9.
Another thing, as I was looking over the last few pages, Drifter's vote on me seemed OMGUS.
Of the two ICs, ShadowLurker has seemed more into the game as of late, while think has slowed down.

I plan on looking over the entire thread, some real stuff possibly coming soon.

[Artem]

thinktank: Please post something, we haven't had anything from you apart from placeholders for about a fortnight, and it looks you are still posting in other games.

thegeckoj: If we lynch Drifter today and he flips town, then based on the current information who would you judge most scummy? Do you think it is time to lynch Drifter yet, and if not, what should we be waiting for?

Artem: Hmm... could you answer the same two questions as above, please?

If Drifter flips town, I think that there's a good chance that at least one mafia was on his bandwagon.

lifeofpie's vote on Drifter came from the joke phase and only when Shadowlurker went after Drifter and I started asking Drifter questions did llifeofpie provided real justification behind his vote:

I stick by my vote. Drifter has been contradictory.

On the other hand, maybe we should kill Sion because his lack of activity hurts the town.

I also don't like how Shadowlurker jumped all over Drifter for a vanilla claim. I've seen newb-town do that before. On the other hand, Drifter is not being pro-town by going back on his claim with his "Mafia don't know if I'm a power role", which borders on fishing. I also don't like his WIFOM in 192.

If Drifter flips scum, the most likely candidate for a buddy would be chapter 5, who is not voting anybody at the moment and who attempted to start a bandwagon on Fenchurch, and when realized that the bandwagon is not going to pick up steam, went back to not voting anybody.

Personally, I would like Drifter to address the rest of the questions directed at him before we lynch him. Replacement is also an option but I doubt the replacement will know what went on in Drifter's head.

[Artem]

I also don't like how Shadowlurker jumped all over Drifter for a vanilla claim. I've seen newb-town do that before.

Clarification: I've seen newb-town inadvertently claim vanilla before.

[thinktank]

I'm not a fan of the drifter lynch. He seems to come of as town.

[ShadowLurker]

I also don't like how Shadowlurker jumped all over Drifter for a vanilla claim. I've seen newb-town do that before.

Clarification: I've seen newb-town inadvertently claim vanilla before.

What part about Drifter's claim makes you think it was "inadvertent" ? He explicitly stated that it was a claim.

I'm not a fan of the drifter lynch. He seems to come of as town.

Want to propose an alternative and give thoughts on somebody else then? You haven't made a single vote since the random vote stage.

[Fenchurch]

Drifter's reason for the claim seems to be genuine and at the moment I'm not agreeing with the arguments made against him.

then

Looking back at Drifter's statements. Shadowlurker seems to be on the money. A drifter lynch would definitely be a possibility.

and now

I'm not a fan of the drifter lynch. He seems to come of as town.

thinktank, I'd like to know what made you change your mind in between those last two posts.

[lifeofpie]

Drifter:

1 - “yeh well you certainly didn't want to wait around, and there aren't many posts in this thread that have only 2 minutes in between them”

This comes off to me as just looking for a reason, and a bad one, to give an OMGUS vote.

2 - “To be a good townie you shouldn't be worried about getting killed off yourself if you help out the team.”

I really don’t like that he’s telling us what we should and should not do, when in a previous post he made the mistake of claiming with just one (or two? Not quite sure. There weren’t very many) vote on himself.

3 - “alright wel I have said I'm not the Mafia, I'm getting plenty of advice apart from how to defend myself, so all I can say is that I haven't been afraid to throw my name out there, I haven't hid or coasted, iv posted a lot.”

His posts haven’t really had any content before this specific one, and they really aren’t much later on. He seems desperate to look townie, accentuated because he continually mentions that he isn’t mafia. Well, aren’t we all?

4 - “wel the mafia don't know if i have a power role or not.”

Although it has already been mentioned several times, this is fishing. Also, it is contradictory, because didn’t he claim vanilla townie?

5 - “Your complaining about my play, wel choose who you want to vote off and we will see who has been more useful for the townies when I end up lynching a mafia and all of you end up voting off an innocent”

I like this, he tells us all to go to hell. Essentially. This is also part of his last post.


that's all for now.

[NabakovNabakov]

Vote Count as of Post 261

Drifter (4):

lifeofpie, ShadowLurker, Artem, thegeckoj

Mallick

thinktank (1):

Fenchurch

Fenchurch (1):

Chapter 5

lifeofpie (1):

Drifter

Not voting (2)

thinktank, RandomGem

Drifter Prodded.

[Artem]

I also don't like how Shadowlurker jumped all over Drifter for a vanilla claim. I've seen newb-town do that before.

Clarification: I've seen newb-town inadvertently claim vanilla before.

What part about Drifter's claim makes you think it was "inadvertent" ? He explicitly stated that it was a claim.

Inadvertent in the sense that some newb-town players don't know any better than to either soft-claim or to claim with a handful of votes on them. I don't know if Drifter's claim was inadvertent claim from a townie or contrived claim from a mafia. But you did jump on him rather quickly.

[ShadowLurker]

I also don't like how Shadowlurker jumped all over Drifter for a vanilla claim. I've seen newb-town do that before.

Clarification: I've seen newb-town inadvertently claim vanilla before.

What part about Drifter's claim makes you think it was "inadvertent" ? He explicitly stated that it was a claim.

Inadvertent in the sense that some newb-town players don't know any better than to either soft-claim or to claim with a handful of votes on them. I don't know if Drifter's claim was inadvertent claim from a townie or contrived claim from a mafia. But you did jump on him rather quickly.

Please provide a link to the town you've seen doing that before. "Rather quickly" is a weasel word that means nothing. I'm going to jump on something I feel is suspicious as soon as I see it (especially if it's page 2 or 3 when there's not much else). In fact, I'd be more suspicious of the ones who waited to see if it was a prime wagon or not.

[Artem]

Please provide a link to the town you've seen doing that before. "Rather quickly" is a weasel word that means nothing. I'm going to jump on something I feel is suspicious as soon as I see it (especially if it's page 2 or 3 when there's not much else). In fact, I'd be more suspicious of the ones who waited to see if it was a prime wagon or not.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7891, post 40.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8255, post 356.

I know this borders on WIFOM, but you could be scum thinking that it would be too suspicious to wait and see if the bandwagon picks up steam so you jump all over it first.

"This is interesting..." is a weasel word too.

[Fenchurch]

Please provide a link to the town you've seen doing that before.

I know it's not my question.. but I've seen it happen too. For instance, two players in this game:
Newbie 655 (< see highlights in populartajo's post)
The claims themselves:
The Pope's Tiara - claims vanilla after previously hinting that he could be cop
Syphen - claims vanilla when just one vote is on him
Both turned out to be newbie townies.

So, I can see Drifter's behaviour coming from newbtown as well as newbscum, and it's hard to choose which is more likely.

[Fenchurch]

viewtopic.php?t=7891, post 40.
viewtopic.php?t=8255, post 356.

Umm, Artem, I can't find claims in either of the posts you list.
"wait can the none noobs in this game be mafia too?"
and
"@Mod: This 2 week deadline is going to fly right by, and if it does because people keep going away or not posting then I'm claiming my role. Care to extend that deadline?"

[Fenchurch]

Gahh... mucked one of my own links up. Fixed here:

Newbie 655 (< see highlights in populartajo's post)
The claims themselves:
The Pope's Tiara - claims vanilla after previously hinting that he could be cop
Syphen - claims vanilla when just one vote is on him
Both turned out to be newbie townies.

[Artem]

viewtopic.php?t=7891, post 40.
viewtopic.php?t=8255, post 356.

Umm, Artem, I can't find claims in either of the posts you list.
"wait can the none noobs in this game be mafia too?"
and
"@Mod: This 2 week deadline is going to fly right by, and if it does because people keep going away or not posting then I'm claiming my role. Care to extend that deadline?"

Sorry, post 43 in the first one:

"By the way, there's no point in me saying this, as it's not proveable, but I'm going to go on record as saying it anyway, so It doesn't look like I'm not defending myself: I'm not scum."

It's a claim of the alignment not a role, but still: since it serves no purpose, why do it?
The second one is a soft claim. DB was hinting at a power role.

Drfiter's claim is different than both of these in the sense that he first claims vanilla (ok, could be newb-town that doesn't know any better like the two I linked), but then goes back on himself with "the mafia don't know if I'm a power-role". (I'm reading that as mafia realizing he's in trouble and attempting to fish for power-roles for his buddy.)

[Fenchurch]

Drfiter's claim is different than both of these in the sense that he first claims vanilla (ok, could be newb-town that doesn't know any better like the two I linked), but then goes back on himself with "the mafia don't know if I'm a power-role". (I'm reading that as mafia realizing he's in trouble and attempting to fish for power-roles for his buddy.)

Erk, I know I'm not supposed to defend people... but I just don't read it like this at all. To me:
1. Drifter claims vanilla.
2. Drifter gets told that early claiming is bad for the town.
3. Drifter understands this, doesn't want to look bad for the town, and so tries to pretend to the mafia that his vanilla claim might have been a lie. (Probably unaware of Lynch-all-Liars policy, or of the fact that if we believe he was lying before, then why should we trust him on anything else).
4. Drifter either believes that his backtracking has worked, or is trying to convince us that it has, hence "mafia don't know whether I am a power role or not".

I just don't buy it as fishing. If he had said "

town

don't know if I'm a power role or not", then maybe, because someone in the town might think "yes I do", and pipe up. But the way he worded it, I wouldn't say it's fishing any more than you mentioning the word "cop" earlier.

I'm not saying any of this makes him pro-town, just that the whole claim business doesn't really trigger anything for me. What I don't like are Drifter's attempts at scumhunting: his illogical attack on lifeofpie, and his "only reply to this if you're mafia" post. Again, these could just be a newbie trying to fit in, but to me these seem less plausible as newbtown behaviour.

[Artem]

I just don't buy it as fishing. If he had said "town don't know if I'm a power role or not", then maybe, because someone in the town might think "yes I do", and pipe up. But the way he worded it, I wouldn't say it's fishing any more than you mentioning the word "cop" earlier.

It's potential fishing because the mafia know more about the game setup than we do.

For example, if the mafia don't have a role-blocker, then they know they are facing either the cop or the doctor. So, if Drifter-scum hints at a power role, the real cop (if it's a setup with the cop) might get a false sense of security thinking that Drifter is the doc and come out, thinking that Drifter would protect him.

I'm not trying to fish for roles here. I'm just explaining a hypothetical scenario, where Drifter's backtracking could be dangerous to us. It's not straight-up fishing, but, like I said earlier, it borders on it.

[Fenchurch]

For example, if the mafia don't have a role-blocker, then they know they are facing either the cop or the doctor. So, if Drifter-scum hints at a power role, the real cop (if it's a setup with the cop) might get a false sense of security thinking that Drifter is the doc and come out, thinking that Drifter would protect him.

Fair enough, that does make sense. I still don't think it applies to this situation, because that I can't see anyone being silly enough to actually believe Drifter as a power-role following his other actions. If Drifter-as-scum was logical enough to think of kind of plan, then I doubt he would have made such a poor play previously, which would undermine his plan.

Hmm. To be honest, I'm still trying to get my head around this theory. It doesn't seem to fit, given the circumstances, but I can't quite put my finger on why. So maybe I'm wrong. Will come back to this if I can work it out.

[Fenchurch]

Also, that's me you're quoting, not Drifter.

[RandomGem]

It's page 10 and you still haven't distinguished between us?

Got kinda lazy by the end of that post... Uh, I recognize 2 distinct entities between you two, and have trouble matching one to a name. 'Cause of those stupid avatars. Just like how Artem switched his... oh well, I'll catch it this time...

Uh, I think this discussion about Drifter could really use one thing. Drifter. But I'm assuming he's going to be replaced after the prod period ends...