DBZ: Cell Games [Over]

[Firebringer]

Is guilotina scum?
ive liked almost everything guilo posted. But i think i like them for not alignment reasons.

Is there a reason to vote them

[Oil Tycoons]

superbowl not even gonna question why i am voting my townread still. Interesting.

I'm always weirded out when people do the "I thought you were going to ask this question" thing. Why would superbowl specifically ask you why you were voting your townread? Why is it weird for you to be voting your townread when that expressed townread was not Uber strong?

Hmm.

#puts post in the sorting pile

@Oil Tycoons, Why do you make post 103 defending superbowl9 if it's too early for TRs?

I like this progression from Titus.
Not the hardest thing in the entire world to fake, but an angle that I think would be unusual for her.

I ish having some problems with your slot and I was thinking maybe nacho can help clear my suspicions but I think the reason why nacho isn't coming is because he doesn't like being scum, yeah?

The reason why I've been playing in hydras since I've returned to the site is because the nature of my work means that even though we're in slow season right now and I hypothetically should have time to play mafia, certain things pop up and I fall off the face of the planet for a set amount of time. My style as a whole involves a lot of thinking and reading before posting (usually) which means end result is my beautiful self that you're used to. I think that your scumread on my entrance makes sense because that Nacho was me posting before hanging out and drinking and then a bunch of sloppy drunk posting - I think that the chances you take such an aggressive tack if scum against me are low and the way that you've gone back and forth on extremes in determining my alignment also reads very very genuine.

And I've touched a bit on alignment preferences (and I appreciate the compliments!!), and while there used to be a time where I posted less as scum than town (because I was too focused on planning shit and didn't get the improv piece of playing scum), those times are long gone. Offsite where games have more of a tempo of New Mafiascum I put up some almost noraa-esque postcounts as scum (don't think I made it to Death Curse).

I highly doubt BM is scum here.

So far seeing very firm BM townreads from Fire and Titus and don't really understand them.

The sober translation of my BM scumread so far is that the combination of an extremely dispassionate Battle Mage doesn't make sense especially with how confident he is wrapped up in it. I talked about the Xenoblade comparison and I get that he's trying a different playstyle, but typically some of the passion and playfulness carries over since our playstyles are so deeply intertwined with our personalities. I'd feel better about it if he was putting suspicions together with things like "logic" and "reasons" but I don't really get a sense of that so far; it's just hard to find where him pushing to get reactions ends and where him believing what he's pushing begins which is never a good sign.

Titus, you're on form.

First BM post that I actually kind of like.
Not outside of the realm of possibility for him as scum, but the "townreading me? Titus, you're crushing it!" is more along the lines of what I was expecting from him as town.

Lots of people can AtE as either alignment - I can AtE as town or scum. I try to distinguish based on timing and circumstance. In this case, I think it's more scum-indicative AtE to avoid scrutiny - if town, it's a little premature. Do you think Flea can't AtE as scum

This is silly. The AtE in question is this:

VOTE: BM

My god if it's that easy though. It's practically a flea trust tell. XD

Honestly, Im just scum by default at this point. Nobody likes me ლ(｡-﹏-｡ ლ)

Got a few issues with this.
1) This seems very obviously like a joke? For one, the "nobody likes me" is overly dramatic and the attention he's getting is Bell going "man wouldn't it be funny if this is a meta tell!".
2) Saying that it's scum-indicative AtE to avoid scrutiny is equally illogical and ridiculous. If it's premature as town, it's premature is town because it's too early or too little pressure to justify being so overwhelmed to be pushed to AtE. If that's the case, why wouldn't it be premature as scum as well? Why would Flea be worried about scrutiny on post fucking 120?
3) Smallest of issues, but touches on what bothered drunk-me so much. He puts a bit of effort in trying to dress up this garbage take - there's no good substance here, but he sure as shit did his best to pretend that something was there.

Get ready for the solve

Spoiler: Definitely the solve, not the DK Rap

This gives me flashbacks from the Xenoblade game.

Do you post DK raps as either alignment?

This is an extraordinarily silly question and I don't see any world where you get an alignment-indicative answer to it. Why ask it?

[Guillotina]

Ok. Good evening, I have an hour before i go to sleep. I'm super tired so, bare with me.

"I change my meta every game."

"They've seen my town games! Why can't they see this is my town game?!"


Pick one please Guillotina.

Why do I have to pick?

I change my meta at will but there are certain traits that I display involuntarily when I town regardless of the meta I portray, such as:

1) I protect my townreads but I'm not afraid to re-evaluate and push them if they raise a red flag.
2) My aggressive sugarcoat-less tongue.
3) I do not coward when I'm pushed, no matter who is doing the pushing and no matter the repercussions I may suffer for posing such resistance, specially against consensus town read players.
4) I question everything that seems odd even if it's not odd for everyone else.
5) I rarely sheep anyone, if I place a vote, it's because I believe in it. This is both a quality and a defect because it's hard for me to agree on a consensus vote I don't believe in.
6) I'm not afraid to OMGUS.
7) I tunnel

Now here are all my town games here

(I think I'm forgetting one but can't be arse to look for it now)

Large Normal 230

Open 800 - Donner Party

Yellowstone

Here are my scum games here and at MU

Xenoblade - I left this one early because I was busy and I couldn't be arsed to read 500 posts when I came back from work.

High Noon this is the one with a similar duelist mechanic as this one. We won this game as scum.

Pantheon Mash - We won this game as scum

Everyone's JOATED - I randed scum here, I tried to mimic my town game but it was obvious how forced it was. We lost this game.

Here I was a third party

Bastard Fiesta

[Guillotina]

G, I need your response as well. Is a conftown G good or bad for the game?

I don't understand the question. Can you ask in simpler terms please?

[Guillotina]

Hmph. You whippersnappers talk a lot.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

excuse me?

Hi. Why do you townread Battle Mage? Why do you scumread Sugar Kain? Do you have any other reads you'd like to share?

BM seems pretty active and earnest so far, this isn't like his scumgame against me where he played UtR
Sugar Cain (Nero Cain head to be specific) seems a bit similar to when I played as scum with him in Micro 887
for other I think kookiemonster is town, Flea seems scummy but I'm not really sold on that atp, Bell I thought town early but has fallen off it seems (based on activity overview), Titus and mastina both seem towny, guilo I had a turnaround on iirc where I thought him town but now think he's scum

Why do you think I'm scum? I ask because I think you might be scum.

I'll case you tomorrow but you and Superbowl are oddly different than when I played with town you in Donnor's Party.

[Guillotina]

Mastina help me case Guillo. You are far better at casing and convincing people than me. Plsssssssssss *puppy eyes*

There's a problem with that:
Casing people requires me to actually be sure they're scum, and while I know people tend to think that when I latch onto a scumread, I don't let it go...I actually DO end up sometimes actually getting such strong doubts that I can't make the strong push on them anymore.

In this game particularly, I'm struggling to get a reasonable solve or even a consistent townbloc.

To wit,

Spoiler: compare these reads I have zero-to-minimal doubt on...

kookiemonster (JohnnyFarrar and Noraa)
^This is Noraa's towngame through and through. Their everything is town. This is well beyond Noraa's scumrange because she can't perform this well and even Johnny is looking town in the few posts he makes. Noraa is actively scumhunting here rather than just blanket-OMGUSing and she's actively trying to reach out to others and convince them that she's right and is actually sorting people with good reasoning and actual basis behind her pushes and her reads. It is a level beyond what she's ever shown as scum and as I said previously, she radiates a town aura of being happy, when she loathes scum and is thoroughly burned out from multiple repeated scum PMs in a short duration.

Dunnstral
^While Dunnstral is slightly less active than my preference, I still think that this is solidly Dunn as town. He is one of the only slots I have no doubt on. This is a, reasonably active, Dunnstral who is pretty solvey in his posts and pushes and is being his normal reasonable town self.

Bell
^While I am not as intimately familiar with Bell as I'd prefer to be, this is a fairly active Bell who seems to have full confidence in his townness (a la MBOS10 (contrast superbowl9 who does not give that same energy from that game at all). He is being reasonably active and his contributions are reasonably good. Having seen him as scum twice, I can say this looks like neither of his scumgames.

...To those I DO have doubt on:

Battle Mage
^While my thought is that Battle Mage's fights are town, even TvT, I know I can't read him, and there is paranoia that his pushes come from scum. I can see the conviction behind them being from him as town, but I also know he will make posts that have conviction as scum. And, someone needs to be scum, so it could be him. But, my instinct does say town because the pushes he is making, though not all good, all seem to be sincere which makes me think more town than scum.

Oil Tycoons (Syryana and Nachomamma8)
^While I am far from alone in thinking the content of the hydra sucks ass, there are a couple of things making me doubt that they're scum. Notably,
1: I believe that I'm basically the closest thing the slot has to an ally? Is literally everyone suspicious of them? It certainly seems that way; I may be remembering incorrectly, but I don't remember so much as a single slot defending them and a ton of slots attacking them. Meaning, either they're town or scum are willing to bus them.
2: the push with their intervention in BM v Flea felt incredibly out of place if they're scum--it doesn't make sense with any combination of Flea/BM's alignments with Oil Tycoons. Not scum-BM, not scum-Flea, not town-both, and certainly not scum-both. That intervention does nothing for Oil Tycoons in any of those combinations.
3: The reachouts made to slots like me. I realize it's not impossible for scum to make reachouts like that, but the reachouts instantly made me doubt my scumread there and think town.

Gamma Emerald
^While I liked Gamma's early content and to some extent still like it now, he's far from locktown and my defense of him from Guillotina was exaggerated. Tho I genuinely did see the things in him I said I did, I'm not as sure about them as I appeared; there was doubt in my mind, and

someone

needs to be scum. So he's a candidate for that.

Firebringer
^I can say that I've liked everything Firebringer has done content-wise, but I can't read him worth shit. I'll say that I do like his chosen gimmick for this game tho; it does put a smile on my face and is genuinely entertaining and amusing. (The abrasiveness towards others, less so, but I cannot blame him for it.)

Titus
^I really, really liked Titus's content, but while everything she's said has resonated with me, one thing is keeping her from being in the town group: by gut, something tonally feels 'off' about Titus. The things she's said are good! Her reads are solid, her reasoning is great, and her stances are good. She's being fairly reasonable and doing things that do look town. But gut-wise, something tonally seems off about her, and I can't place it beyond a feeling of something there being artificial.

Flea The Magician
^Flea is a slot that I townread because faer content does look town to me. I've liked faer tone, I've liked faer reasoning, I've liked faer pushes, I'm liking everything fae is putting forward. But I admit there is a lack of familiarity, and yes, I do see the similarities between this game and Among Us that Battle Mage is pushing fae for. However, it also seems subtly different. Are the differences just due to being a different scumgame? Possible, but overall I do lean towards the slight differences being due to Flea being town. It's not a locktown read tho.

Sugar Cain (Momrangal and Nero Cain)
^When Nero posted, I mentally noted in my list of Nero-tells that this looked like Nero as town. But every time I reviewed prior Nero games, I came to doubt it. Yet when reading his iso here, I came to see it again. Overall, Nero's less active here than he should be; Nero's content seems to be slightly lacking in some things that could indicate scum; Momrangal while present now was largely absent, in a way similar to the previous Sugar Cain scumgame where Mom was largely absent and Nero did most of the posting.

However, while some aspects of Nero's posting seems flat in the way typical of his scumgame, other aspects of his play still resonate with me as town. The indignance I'd expect from Nero as town, though more subdued, is still present. So while I am slightly conflicted, I still think that, overall, this is Sugar Cain as town, because I still think that I am seeing the right things for Nero being town.

Guillotina
^Guillotina's a slot I was strongly scumreading, by both gut and also through their lackluster content on multiple levels. Their posting felt forced and faked, and I hated how their readslist had inverse proportion to reads as it should--it had three town when it should've had three scum, and five scum when it should've had five town. I disliked the reads and the reasoning within at the time and Guillotina's response to pressure is terrible.

Furthermore, Guillotina's shown multiple inconsistencies, such as "I try not to use meta" when using a bunch of meta, and saying that their game is constantly being changed up, while resembling a past game of theirs. There's numerous such inconsistencies throughout their iso and I can see exactly why they look like scum from these trends.

So why the doubt?

For a start--while Guillotina's hyper-aggro towards me when pointing this out wasn't town, Guillotina did raise a good point: Guillotina did in fact risk getting mod-replaced/modkilled in that one area with the, what's the best term to use? Loophole abuse? Angleshooting? Guillotina genuinely went out of their way to get mod clarification on the rules, in a way that scum did have no reason to do and I can see town having reason to.

More than that, the way Guillotina handled my slot seemed genuine as well, where Guillotina by the end was reaching out to me, and the way Guillotina was handling things seemed hugely town. Guillotina's content since then has also had huge shades of townness, from the general handling of the game and stances taken that feel sincere, genuine, and based at least a little in fact.

Plus, in hindsight: I don't actually disagree with Guillotina's readslist as much as I thought,

and

, I am, currently, ironically: in a state where my own reads due to being in disarray, are actually similar to the very thing I attacked Guillotina for, in not having enough town, being too incoherent, being too uncohesive, etc. So I can not hold that against Guillotina.

(Not included: Superbowl9, as a read that I see as unambiguously scum)

I'll try to put these thoughts into a readslist next post.

I like this post. I'll refer to it tomorrow when I have more time. (I tried to put the quoted text inside a spoiler but it didn't work for some reason).

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Oil
I dunno why people SR this but practically everyone has so I'm okay sheeping

Why are you doing this Gamma? You've been Echoing Kookies' votes and reads like a slave?
Town!you don't do this.

[Guillotina]

There's a problem with that:
Casing people requires me to actually be sure they're scum, and while I know people tend to think that when I latch onto a scumread, I don't let it go...I actually DO end up sometimes actually getting such strong doubts that I can't make the strong push on them anymore.

In this game particularly, I'm struggling to get a reasonable solve or even a consistent townbloc.

YAY you do SR guillo! Awesome!
as for town block, its just {Mastina, Noraa}

done!

-happynornor

She actually does not scum read me unless I interpreted it wrong, she nulls me. Which is more than I could have hoped for for someone that has never played with me. She actually took the time to case me.

[Guillotina]

Can I trade roles with BM or Flea please?

This post is weird. How do you know they have roles? did they claim?

[Oil Tycoons]

BM is reading weird to me, his content isn't as happy? ig? as normal BM. But I just saw scum him and he wasn't like this either so not really sure what to make of it

trying out a new style, we'll see whether it is effective. don't worry, im happy enough

What new style are you trying out exactly?

BM than made a meta case on me which I countered with a similar meta case,

Which I'd appreciate if each of you stepped away from because it's completely useless to the rest of us.
Don't talk about ongoing games also means don't dance around ongoing games.

If need be, I'll volunteer to 1v1 with you today.

Why would you volunteer to 1v1 with Flea? What need would there be?
This seems more like posturing than a genuine thought, but that's also partially being driven by the clinical tone of yours.

yeah this feels like flea-scum. very self-conscious and inward-looking analysis; big post mostly fluff

This post in particular.
What about his posting is self-conscious, inward looking analysis?

Doesn't mesh with what he's actually posted.

i genuinely think you should sober up and come back to the game tomorrow, if you believe this.

So I did!
I don't like you treating me like a child, drunk or not.

Inward looking analysis is wrong. Self-centered analysis is more accurate, but I understand where Flea's coming from because your post is short on explanations but hot and heavy on rhetoric. I, again, don't like how dismissive you are of me when I ask you to elaborate; if you believe in your Flea scumread like you're currently pretending to, it shouldn't be a burden on you to explain yourself a little bit - don't think it's at all unreasonable for you to put a little work into bringing me on board with your beliefs but I get the same treatment I get from the cashiers at my local Jewel Osco.

[Guillotina]

I think im gonna pull a titus and play from like a few pages back each day

Im trying so damn hard to save ur scummy ass. Please stop being dumb like this. You're on the chopping block cuz of dumb stuff like this -________-

1) you better be town otherwise im going to be mad
2) you better get into the game

-hmphydoodles

OMG there is hope, she is starting to see it.

[Oil Tycoons]

Can I trade roles with BM or Flea please?

This post is weird. How do you know they have roles? did they claim?

Is there an answer to this pair of questions that is both productive and beneficial to the town?

[Oil Tycoons]

(no. stop asking silly questions.)

[Guillotina]

You know the guy sitting in the car with the lady pounding on the window meme? Can someone make that with me and mastina’s heads

The hell is this post. So you barely have time post anything because you are on vacation but you have time to post crap like this?

[Guillotina]

Can I trade roles with BM or Flea please?

This post is weird. How do you know they have roles? did they claim?

Is there an answer to this pair of questions that is both productive and beneficial to the town?

It looked weird to me. It's probably nothing.

[Guillotina]

Oil Dunn Superbowl9 Gamma...who is with me?

I'm down for Superbowl and Gamma out of that list.

[Guillotina]

Town: Noraa, Johnny, Mastina, Superb, Oily

This list has zero scum. Im calling it.

-norbearbear

Baah. Really? Superb?

[Guillotina]

The thing that made me zero in on him though? His interaction with you, Noraa. Starting at 713 and ending with 729, he followed you around like a lost puppy. Actually, more like a parrot, since he unvoted as soon as you went "well i'm not actually scumreading Firebringer tho" in 728. His posting this game is completely soulless and directionless, which heavily contradicts both games I've seen him play town (Xenoblade, and Smoke Filled Antechamber).

Also of note; he's active lurking. He posts in little spurts every few hours or so, off and on, but he certainly was johnny on the spot when I came in and voted him. In fact, that vote was the first time I got any hint of emotion from him this entire game.

Oil sees things that I see. I like it.

(I'm sorry for your loss)

[Guillotina]

Ok. I'm off to sleep. Good night

[Guillotina]

Not before I do this

VOTE: Gamma

[Sugar Cain]

Is there a reason to vote them

I mean I was voting them b/c his "nero isn't scumhunting" was a lie from the bottom pits of hell and then he changed his reasoning to "nero isn't being the same" He's trying to argue that they are one in the same but I disagree. He's saying that my blankRVS looking vote on Bell wasn't scumhunting but when I pointed out that I had a similar opening in LG230 he "forgot" so mypov he's scum that got caught sheeping dumb town SB and noraa is trying desperately to bus.

What do u like about him?

[Flea The Magician]

Ok. Good evening, I have an hour before i go to sleep. I'm super tired so, bare with me.

"I change my meta every game."

"They've seen my town games! Why can't they see this is my town game?!"


Pick one please Guillotina.

Why do I have to pick?

I change my meta at will but there are certain traits that I display involuntarily when I town regardless of the meta I portray, such as:

1) I protect my townreads but I'm not afraid to re-evaluate and push them if they raise a red flag.
2) My aggressive sugarcoat-less tongue.
3) I do not coward when I'm pushed, no matter who is doing the pushing and no matter the repercussions I may suffer for posing such resistance, specially against consensus town read players.
4) I question everything that seems odd even if it's not odd for everyone else.
5) I rarely sheep anyone, if I place a vote, it's because I believe in it. This is both a quality and a defect because it's hard for me to agree on a consensus vote I don't believe in.
6) I'm not afraid to OMGUS.
7) I tunnel

[snip]

I don't meta hunt, I use meta by playing with people and seeing their habits develop live. Mostly because I lack the attention span.
You're using meta to defend yourself yet when you're attacked with meta you dismiss it as you change it up every game. Those points you've raised you could do quite happily as scum.

BM than made a meta case on me which I countered with a similar meta case,

Which I'd appreciate if each of you stepped away from because it's completely useless to the rest of us.
Don't talk about ongoing games also means don't dance around ongoing games.

I wasn't, as I said, we had no completed games together and I was aware he's a reflexive hunter like me. Ongoing games are completely off the table for me to discuss.


VOTE: Gamma because we need a consensus wagon -.-; I'm still more on my prior list but we gotta get 2 in the arena

[Bell]

I think im gonna pull a titus and play from like a few pages back each day

Im trying so damn hard to save ur scummy ass. Please stop being dumb like this. You're on the chopping block cuz of dumb stuff like this -________-

1) you better be town otherwise im going to be mad
2) you better get into the game

-hmphydoodles

OMG there is hope, she is starting to see it.

This is a stretch.

[Bell]

also, Gamma wagon out of nowhere, classic.

[Battle Mage]

I don't like you treating me like a child, drunk or not.

fuck....how old are you?? I'm not your dad. if you get drunk and act like a fool, that's entirely your responsibility