TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Super]

If me and mena are TvT, I'd expect scum to be sitting back and watching. I don't really think they'd care so much about wagoning me since none of them are in danger and they can just compromise at deadline or something. I'm gonna find where I said I TRed those three.

If mena is scum, I'm not sure why scum aren't voting me. Maybe they can't get enough traction?

you don't think my case on you is enough traction? lol I think scum would have definitely jumped on my push of you honestly which is why I'm so confused right now. I don't think scum are sitting back and watching at all so I do think this is probably a scum vs town scenario and if not town could very much be screwed later on

[JohnnyFarrar]

Omg you guys every time I leave there's 20 more pages. The whole family is home now so my time should free up a lil

[Super]

I was thinking and a world that me, Mena and Autumn are town is if Koba is scum because any other scumteam would rationally take sides or fencesit, whereas I think Koba would tell his team to push me/Mena here always.

I don't see a scum!mena and town!autumn world because Mena would have one of his partners likely take my side here to deflect attention and I also think Mena would have used my case more against Autumn than he has (Mena would buddy my read and validate it whereas they have kinda pushed my case aside and have their own reasoning for why Leafy is scum).

[Super]

(like if Mena was scum I'd see him getting their partner to take my side and push Autumn with me to create a super vs autumn scenario not a oush where Mena has created an autumn vs mena scenario)

like of Autumn and Mena are town I'd be deeply reconsidering my read on Koba because why tf haven't mafia been pushing Autumn at all ?

[DkKoba]

and theres the setup to miselim me lmao

[Firebringer]

Super ur too narrowly focused and should take 100 feet back to see the mountains. Ur in the brush.

[Autumn Leaves]

They feel messier than they usually are as scum, and I can feel them trying to keep scum on their toes. I also think they would approach me more cautiously as scum, and I liked some of their early vibes.

This is still true for koba + they've been re-evaluating their reads at random times which doesn't feel agenda-y

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=82824 @AL: I'm not saying her play is similar but it's a nice read.

She has a lot less passion/drive/something here. I guess one of the towniest things about lilith's play to me was that you could see how her annoyance about being SRed while she was away showed in her scumhunting. She started SRing you, auro, and the way she's not letting it go also felt very towny to me. Anyway, I think it's very towny behavior in a vacuum, and in the absence of evidence that scum!lilith behaves similarly, I think lilith is just town.

can you explain your townread fully on Chen to me Autumn? I want to know where it comes from and if you can go deeper on it

Besides the mindmeld stuff, I have no idea what he's doing here as scum. He seems to be putting a lot of effort into thinking about the game, but not in a way that's likely to get townread (he's not coming to a lot of solid conclusions/not obviously being "solvy") and he's not taking control of the game in spots where (imo) scum could've come in and taken control since a lot of people were unsure about reads.

These are why my TRs are what they are, if you want me to elaborate I can try.

I feel like I'm getting a little deep into pre-flip associative territory, but I agree that I'm not sure what scum are doing if mena is scum. If you're town and scum isn't bussing, flopz/johnny are the most likely partners. I feel like scum!fire could get away with voting me if he was scum with mena. So the most likely teams fmpov are:

mena, super, flopz/johnny/auro
mena, flopz, johnny
3 of flopz/johnny/auro/fire

[Super]

not at all, I think you're town. I just don't know why scum haven't jumped on voting Autumn at all here - I could be complete wrong on Mena's slot but at this point I don't think I am

[Autumn Leaves]

Super ur too narrowly focused and should take 100 feet back to see the mountains. Ur in the brush.

Is super dragging me into the brush with her?

[Firebringer]

I don't think scum are at all concerned with U vs Autumn.

[Firebringer]

Super ur too narrowly focused and should take 100 feet back to see the mountains. Ur in the brush.

Is super dragging me into the brush with her?

She is trying to drag us all into it and say this is the correct interpretation and lens to view the game and i think she is missing a great deal of detail by focusing in on this.

[DkKoba]

theres already 2 scum votes on infinity -solved it for everyone

[Super]

you really think Mena and I are partners here? why would we buddy so hard ? have you properly read our interactions without conf bias Koba?

[Firebringer]

theres plenty of reason why scum don't want to jump on autumn.
1) they could want ot save him for miselim later
2) they don't think they could move on this person without making themselves look sus
3) they want to disrupt townblocks more not reinforce (pretty sure voting autumn would strengthen town blocks going on esp with super)

[Autumn Leaves]

In a mena/super world, scum cannot get any traction on any townie. I actually think flopz is a very likely partner because otherwise why doesn't scum push flopz? In a mena!town world, flopz is scum for fencesitting on the 1v1. In a mena!scum super!town world, flopz is scum by PoE.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

[Super]

Koba you said Autumn was scum right before I cased and voted them, then you immediately didn't want to vote with me and instead said I was scum and now you're conf biased in that mindset. can you see why I can't take you seriously this game? it feels like your entire read on me is a grudge vote and not you genuinely solving the game and I don't think we will ever agree here unfortunately

[Firebringer]

In a mena/super world, scum cannot get any traction on any townie. I actually think flopz is a very likely partner because otherwise why doesn't scum push flopz? In a mena!town world, flopz is scum for fencesitting on the 1v1. In a mena!scum super!town world, flopz is scum by PoE.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

i think this makes sense but i also think it makes sense with chennisden too? Well not really as much but think it could still work.
idk don't think super/mena is very likely and this is a little out there theory.

[DkKoba]

In a mena/super world, scum cannot get any traction on any townie. I actually think flopz is a very likely partner because otherwise why doesn't scum push flopz? In a mena!town world, flopz is scum for fencesitting on the 1v1. In a mena!scum super!town world, flopz is scum by PoE.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Yes.

I think mena->super->flopz->johnny->chenn wins this game assuming one of mena/super flips scum.

[DkKoba]

I'll draw out the case but ive been mentally keeping track of how super has been adjusting positioning in a way that is convenient to herself

[JohnnyFarrar]

Before I read up from page *checks notes* 75.... I'll say my quick off the dome takes on everyone

Mena - effort and logic both good, unwilling to vote
Lili - seems more solvey than most anyone from my recollection. Unwilling to vote
Koba - in no way is this kobas scum game. Would rather not vote, but I do think the game gets easier with them gone so like I wouldn't hate if we limmed them anyway
Infin - got that LHF property a bit. Seems like everyone's down to lim. Would rather not vote
Auro - honestly my eyes kinda glaze over at Auros posts. Might vote pending case/conversation
Super - high effort, high anxiety. Reaction tests and bad blood with koba make it hard for me to parse what they're thinking even if they make outright statements. Would vote
Firebringer - annoying on purpose, not outside scum range from what I've heard but i'm trusting my gut here, would not vote
Flopz - did that meta dive on em, unwilling to vote
Chenny - manic nervous energy. Like they got called out early and have struggled to act natural for the rest of the game. Would vote

[DkKoba]

this latest development is a way for her to save face and not setup a poe that causes her and her team to lose.

[Firebringer]

koba why r u reading infinity as town again?

[Super]

Jess (staypositivefriend) is reading through my game and quoted this and says it pings her: viewtopic.php?p=12533476#p12533476

she thinks the language just feels so focused on appeasing me and kind of having it both ways. she thinks autumn is getting away with a confident sr on me with no reasoning while also going "I'm not really sure though".

jess thinks it is just an incredibly uncomfortable post.

but she says she wouldn't die on the same hill gira and shady have for sring autumn but autumn's scummy posts and the lack of meaningful momentum on them does indicate that they're more likely to flip scum than not

love u jess

[DkKoba]

Like infinity this makes sense better from ur pov if you're town cause you would have a green check on yourself basically and know this push is BS.
im honestly just tired of dealing with this toxic gamestate rn.

[DkKoba]

koba why r u reading infinity as town again?

Bc infinity cannot be scum with super/mena