Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[Gypyx]

admittedly, spring breeze's claim looks towny in a vacuum

the issue is that i struggle to see the town intent behind hard softing a PR, knowing full well that it could give mafia information based on the way people reacted to it, only to retract the soft and claim a vanilla-esque role

it seems anti-town at best

i will say that my confidence in a SB scum world got shook a little bit, but i just dont understand how anybody playing from a town mindset would make that kind of play

like this first line:

"townie in a vacuum" is saying its townie, but only without the other things

then you go into "townie intent" but what's the scum intent?

Why can't she just be frustrated with the game state and being screamed at and just wanted people to give her some space to gather her thoughts?

anti-town at best the third line, its like saying its kanna's fault for messing up the way she claimed so even if she flips green here it's not your fault for mis-reading her, it's her fault for messing up here claim.

the final line is more hedging - and saying you can't see how a townie mindset could play like this as if the qualifier is on her to play to an exact townie model.

like people are people.

people are not robots.

people do not play exactly the correct line of play every time.

especially someone sensitive like Kanna who is getting attacked with unrelenting pressure.

So I don't see how you can be this unsympathetic and not see how she could possibly mess up.

and why can't she be scum collasping under pressure and playing incoherently

[Pink Ball]

compulsive fruit vendor selling dixie red peaches

Stop this wagon asap. I'm 99% sure this claim is real.

I agree but fruit vendor can 100% be a mafia role

And most likely, Spring is claiming one of her partner's role. She wanted to fakeclaim something strong and they probably told her that the best shot to save herself was claiming something weak and showing herself like she accepts her destiny. Don't fall for this, we got our claim, now get read of her. She softclaimed a PR. She's lying.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think he needs to tbh. Sometimes you just know because there's a soul bond!

I mean anyone who says they're 100% confident in anything is deluding themself, first of all.

And second of all, that's not how knowledge works. You can't know something for no reason. Even if he is right, that's no guarantee that Kanna wouldn't have been able to do what she did as scum.

Also, using 2061 as a serious justification is... kinda creepy, honestly. I assumed that the flirting that Pooky and Kanna did was mostly just joking, but this reads like it's serious, and if it's serious then it definitely has no place here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and why can't she be scum collasping under pressure and playing incoherently

Do you think town!kanna could possibly play like this?

I'm not even arguing my townread of her anymore. I'm arguing with the fact SPF is saying there's no way a town player could play this way.

[Noraa]

Anyways we don't need to end day early and I want to town case kanna. Everyone should probs look elsewhere for a bit. I mean we got a claim and all. No need to rush the day.

This is exactly why Noraa is scum with Spring

XD what?

[Pink Ball]

Ok let's just flip Kanna I think it's fine.
If Cake is scum and she is town he will still be here tomorrow.
Sorry Noraa, but let's prevent this from becoming a huge mess of a D1 like Death Curse and flip the maybe scum early. Would have saved us a ton of effort in Death Curse too.

And worst case scenario we're flipping a VT. Anyone wanting to derail this shit is scum

[staypositivefriend]

admittedly, spring breeze's claim looks towny in a vacuum

the issue is that i struggle to see the town intent behind hard softing a PR, knowing full well that it could give mafia information based on the way people reacted to it, only to retract the soft and claim a vanilla-esque role

it seems anti-town at best

i will say that my confidence in a SB scum world got shook a little bit, but i just dont understand how anybody playing from a town mindset would make that kind of play

like this first line:

"townie in a vacuum" is saying its townie, but only without the other things

then you go into "townie intent" but what's the scum intent?

Why can't she just be frustrated with the game state and being screamed at and just wanted people to give her some space to gather her thoughts?

anti-town at best the third line, its like saying its kanna's fault for messing up the way she claimed so even if she flips green here it's not your fault for mis-reading her, it's her fault for messing up here claim.

the final line is more hedging - and saying you can't see how a townie mindset could play like this as if the qualifier is on her to play to an exact townie model.

like people are people.

people are not robots.

people do not play exactly the correct line of play every time.

especially someone sensitive like Kanna who is getting attacked with unrelenting pressure.

So I don't see how you can be this unsympathetic and not see how she could possibly mess up.

i don't know why you're accusing me of being unsympathetic toward kanna for pointing out that her actions are objectively anti-town regardless of her alignment

and no, anti-town does not always = scum. it's possible for SB to be town that genuinely just wanted to get the pressure off of her, and that's something i acknowledge. i empathize with the position of having a lot of pressure on you and feeling the need to pull it off

but which answer requires the least amount of assumptions?

1. SB is scum that decided to hard soft PR under pressure because she thought it would look towny

2. SB is town that decided to hard soft PR under pressure because she was annoyed at the pressure on her and she wanted people to back off?

2 is a possibility, but it requires significantly more logical hoops to jump through to understand the mindset - whereas 1 is the obvious explanation that's true in

most

scenarios like this

i'm willing to consider kanna as town, but i'm not going to townread her for doing something town-indicative, or just because i feel bad for the pressure she's under

the burden of proof is on you to explain why this type of mindset is town indicative, rather than explaining why the mindset MIGHT come from town

[Pink Ball]

Noraa if you could go into more detail about how you see kanna's play as similar to yours that would help me see your point better? I want to know what about kanna's playstyle or the circumstances of this game make you feel like she's in a similar position to you.

Softed a strong pr to bait nk when she was starting to get into a tough position. Hesitates when claiming the real thing which is actually super weak. Isn't that exactly what I did?

She was not "starting to get in a tough position", she was practically doomed and desperate

[staypositivefriend]

and why can't she be scum collasping under pressure and playing incoherently

Do you think town!kanna could possibly play like this?

I'm not even arguing my townread of her anymore. I'm arguing with the fact SPF is saying there's no way a town player could play this way.

i didn't say that. i did say that the type of mindset behind SB's claim is

difficult

for me to understand from a town mindset

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the burden of proof is on you to explain why this type of mindset is town indicative, rather than explaining why the mindset MIGHT come from town

I didn't say it was town indicative.

I'm saying the way you are framing this feels very political - as if you are trying to excuse her green flip on her misplay rather than you mis-reading her.

[staypositivefriend]

the burden of proof is on you to explain why this type of mindset is town indicative, rather than explaining why the mindset MIGHT come from town

I didn't say it was town indicative.

I'm saying the way you are framing this feels very political - as if you are trying to excuse her green flip on her misplay rather than you mis-reading her.

that's not what i'm doing. if she is a green flip, then i fully own up & acknowledge to misreading her, and it wouldn't be her fault

[Something_Smart]

Anyone wanting to derail this shit is scum

I, uh, I hate to break it to you, but there are too many people doing it for that to be the case.

[Noraa]

And most likely, Spring is claiming one of her partner's role. She wanted to fakeclaim something strong and they probably told her that the best shot to save herself was claiming something weak and showing herself like she accepts her destiny. Don't fall for this, we got our claim, now get read of her. She softclaimed a PR. She's lying.

.............................wtf

[Gypyx]

and why can't she be scum collasping under pressure and playing incoherently

Do you think town!kanna could possibly play like this?

I'm not even arguing my townread of her anymore. I'm arguing with the fact SPF is saying there's no way a town player could play this way.

maybe, but i'm not seeing the odds tilt in that direction

[Pink Ball]

Anyone wanting to derail this shit is scum

I, uh, I hate to break it to you, but there are too many people doing it for that to be the case.

I only see Noraa doing it

[Noraa]

I mean anyone who says they're 100% confident in anything is deluding themself, first of all.

And second of all, that's not how knowledge works. You can't know something for no reason. Even if he is right, that's no guarantee that Kanna wouldn't have been able to do what she did as scum.

Also, using 2061 as a serious justification is... kinda creepy, honestly. I assumed that the flirting that Pooky and Kanna did was mostly just joking, but this reads like it's serious, and if it's serious then it definitely has no place here.

I had one person who I could read really well and it just started itself. It was a soul bond.

[Pink Ball]

I'm going V/LA until monday, I'll try to keep up and post whenever I can but with Noraa flooding the thread with posts like "xD" and "wtf" I hope we just get the elimination and take a break

[Noraa]

Noraa if you could go into more detail about how you see kanna's play as similar to yours that would help me see your point better? I want to know what about kanna's playstyle or the circumstances of this game make you feel like she's in a similar position to you.

Softed a strong pr to bait nk when she was starting to get into a tough position. Hesitates when claiming the real thing which is actually super weak. Isn't that exactly what I did?

She was not "starting to get in a tough position", she was practically doomed and desperate

Ok that only makes it better. This was how I softed strong pr in the two town games where I wasn't strong pr. Because I was doomed and I wanted to soft pr, survive til night and get nk'ed

[Something_Smart]

And most likely, Spring is claiming one of her partner's role.

I disagree, because she claimed to send a specific kind of peaches, so if that's a partner's role, then that partner is going to be screwed when massclaim comes, because they can't claim their real role but it's presumably compulsive.

[Noraa]

And most likely, Spring is claiming one of her partner's role.

I disagree, because she claimed to send a specific kind of peaches, so if that's a partner's role, then that partner is going to be screwed when massclaim comes, because they can't claim their real role but it's presumably compulsive.

The partner can just send peaches to another scum. Thats not a problem. Kanna would be fucked cuz she can't send peaches tho so this is almost certainly a real role here.

[Something_Smart]

I only see Noraa doing it

Well, okay. She and Pooky are the only ones making an active effort to derail it. But right after the claim, there were at least a couple people who started looking at other options, kinda subtly implying that they didn't want to kill Kanna as much anymore. If she's scum, that's where I would think scum is more likely to be.

[Something_Smart]

The partner can just send peaches to another scum. Thats not a problem. Kanna would be fucked cuz she can't send peaches tho so this is almost certainly a real role here.

That too.

[Gypyx]

Kanna would have to be an actual scum peach vendor though

[staypositivefriend]

even if sb is scum, i don't think that noraa's defense is scum-motivated

[Noraa]

No the problem is that Kanna's role is real. Like even scum would have to be extremely stupid to pull some shit with exchanging roles or something.
Which is why kanna is either town fruit or scum fruit.
There are NO other options.

Scum fruit softing strong pr just to claim fruit later on is absolute SUICIDE.
Town fruit however might think they can make people back off and not have to claim to later get nk'ed