TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Firebringer]

did u get anything useful from that

[lilith2013]

yes but i lost a pagetop for it so idk if worth

[lilith2013]

Since you don’t seem interested in trying to convince anyone, I’m not going to try to argue about stuff and will instead just file it in my brain for later

[Firebringer]

I think its pretty evident i have no influence over anyones minds here with the possible exception of auro. I would rate you very low on the people i could make a convincing argument over than more than half the playerlist.

I aint looking to effort in an area tht i know will not give me any results. I think its also clear when ur asking for people to explain things ur not actually looking for something to digest but more something to think about how the trajectory of their minds are going not really "lets see if this person can convince me of something". Its pretty clear from ur iso how that is going with u.

[lilith2013]

i mean... yes? is that a problem?

[MathBlade]

- infinity (autumn leaves) pressured early, I think defused by chennis who said gamestate didn’t feel right / townbloc too easy (oh my LORD now that i’m writing this it does sound quite partnery)
- lots of shitfights between koba and super
- infinity mentions some suspicion on super being deepwolf, super responds by pushing infinity, mena replaces in and infinity calls him scum, mena calls infinity scum, lots of yelling between mena, koba, infinity, super (I’m still trying to reread this part because it got really confusing)
- infinity tried to start mini wagon on flopz (presumably when it seemed like pushing mena/super wasn’t going anywhere)
- mini wagon on Johnny without much of a counterwagon
- we are around here now?? not sure if I missed anything important

fwiw I don’t think we should wait a ton longer to end D1. we’re all just going to get apathetic if this drags out much longer. I think we should let mathblade get caught up and hopefully I can finish my reread and then let’s start wagoning people. I think we’re already starting to flag (get it? ha I’m so funny).

ask for everyone if you haven’t done this recently:
- quick readslist (can be as quick as mine above, ie willing to elim vs not willing)
- ideal elim for today

I agree long D1s are bad in this kind of setup especially. My teammates told me this game was toxic before I asked them to be quiet and let me get my own footing on the game. The fact there was toxicity means that people generally seem to be unaware of how to play Black Flag / White Flag setups. It’s going to seem weird at first what I say but in general it should be a pool of would elim / would not elim. Our goal should be to eliminate “not town” versus “scum”. Now I say this for two reasons:

One, scum do not have a night kill. This means if we can get enough people to obvTown we win the game. Then we eliminate everyone not in said town block, we win. Yes, I hate town blocks and am being hypocritical but it’s what this setup needs.

And Two, we have much more fluidity than scum. This will become much more evident as the game draws to a close.

Right now for today since Lilith gave me that summary and it’s something I can read and verify they are on my “not today” for elim list. I don’t care what so much that’s in it that makes her Townie right now that can be checked later but the fact she cared enough to post it was.

[MathBlade]

Unwilling to elim: lilith, mena
Not a preferred elim: fire, math, joqiza
Preferred elims: chenn, flopz, auro, johnny

Really not sure who my favorite elim is, and this could change pending joqiza content/talking to kanna

Reads List:

Unwiling to elim: Everyone not named mena
willing to elim: Mena


General reads list in order of townieness to least:
Super slot, Koba slot, Lilitth 2013, Auro, Infinity, , Flops, Johnny, Chennisden, mena

General tier brackets:
{Koba slot, Super slot}
{Lilith, auro}
{Intinify}
{flopz, johnny}
{Chennisden}
{Mena}

Take the difference in mindset compared to what I said here. Autumn Leaves and Firebringer are very much within my PoE. Autumn Leaves just lists a lot of names and preferred but his not preferred is very tiny. This means either A) Autumn Leaves has a hero mentality which is bad for town or B) Is scum who wants those players in the bottom tier. Either is bad would elim.

Firebringer on the other hand with his would elim of Mena or that’s it makes it very difficult for conversations to sort him around that slot to emerge. General tier brackets don’t help either as it doesn’t give insight into who you think is scum / would elim. It’s very good for obfuscation down the line and I hate it.

So Autumn Leaves and Firebringer are in my would elim pool today

[MathBlade]

and yes his initial entrance was scummy and was the worst thing the "omg guys i am glad i got town too you got no idea". Like i only see scum making thesee entrances. Can anyone tell me a game where town says something like that?

I can’t say I have but I tend to not be in RVS much because I prefer replacing in. With the amount of reading I already have I have 0 desire to go and read a shit ton of RVS to see if that is true. It seems like it should be true.

[Firebringer]

i mean... yes? is that a problem?

pretty much. ur asking both of us to waste time on something that won't change either of our minds. So why should we bother.

[Firebringer]

and yes his initial entrance was scummy and was the worst thing the "omg guys i am glad i got town too you got no idea". Like i only see scum making thesee entrances. Can anyone tell me a game where town says something like that?

I can’t say I have but I tend to not be in RVS much because I prefer replacing in. With the amount of reading I already have I have 0 desire to go and read a shit ton of RVS to see if that is true. It seems like it should be true.

Mena replaced in. His entrance was filling an empty slot.
It wasn't RVS entrance.

[Autumn Leaves]

I'm infinity btw

[MathBlade]

Since you don’t seem interested in trying to convince anyone, I’m not going to try to argue about stuff and will instead just file it in my brain for later

Convincing anyone isn’t really the goal imho. It’s more about building good community with each other and then using that good community to find scum. Scum generally can’t obvTown for long periods and therefore want there to be division and chaos. If we don’t give them that then scum has to try to create division and then hopefully become obvious. I know it seems really counter intuitive but if scum have no where to push then they push in the town block we nuke them. We win as a team and fail as heroes.

[Firebringer]

Autumn Leaves and Firebringer are very much within my PoE.

You literally just got here.
I bet you haaven't read anything except lilith summary.

How do you already have a popular opinion that everyone holds.

[MathBlade]

i mean... yes? is that a problem?

pretty much. ur asking both of us to waste time on something that won't change either of our minds. So why should we bother.

Because by bothering we can build an internal cadence. Both of you pretend to listen to each other. Anyone who doesn’t gets put into or is more deeply shoved into my would elim pool.

[MathBlade]

I'm infinity btw

Hi Infinity! Long time no see? Wanna tell me your top Town reads? Convince me you are gonna work with people?

Autumn Leaves and Firebringer are very much within my PoE.

You literally just got here.
I bet you haaven't read anything except lilith summary.

How do you already have a popular opinion that everyone holds.

Because it’s my opinion? I don’t give a shit if my opinion is popular what I care about is communicating with people and fostering that.

[Firebringer]

Because it’s my opinion? I don’t give a shit if my opinion is popular what I care about is communicating with people and fostering that.

No ur literally doing the react thing where u read last few pages and ur opinion melded without everyone elses. This isn't something where ur giving a new opinion on.

[Firebringer]

with* i don't know why i said without.

[Autumn Leaves]

Autumn Leaves just lists a lot of names and preferred but his not preferred is very tiny. This means either A) Autumn Leaves has a hero mentality which is bad for town or B) Is scum who wants those players in the bottom tier.

You're saying my PoE is too small? I guess, but I don't have a hero mentality, I just have too many TRs.

PEdit: hi math, you just quoted my readslist lol

I do think the townbloc approach is the right one for this game so yeah I'm gonna try to work with people

[Firebringer]

Because by bothering we can build an internal cadence. Both of you pretend to listen to each other. Anyone who doesn’t gets put into or is more deeply shoved into my would elim pool.

Missing the point is classic u.
I am talking to Lilith not you.

For lilith my internal cadence doesn't matter. She will not townread me for that. It might matter to convince u, that i am town. But frankly I don't care if u read me as town. I don't even want you on my side in an argument right now.

I am actually very annoyed at u.

[MathBlade]

You Lillith and Infinity are the ones that have posted. This is a fact.

You and Infinity seem to have very narrow anti cooperation posts since I have gotten in. This is a fact (you’ve said Mena or else) Infinities are a big more subtle with their reads list.

And yes I haven’t read any of the prior thread. I said as much.

This feels like you’re trying to twist what I am doing in building a communicative block into something bad.

If you want off my shit list work with people. Otherwise I have zero fucks elimming you.

[lilith2013]

@fb yeah that’s why I said there was no need for me to respond/for us to hash it out. Sorry if you feel like you wasted effort.

[MathBlade]

You Lillith and Infinity are the ones that have posted. This is a fact.

You and Infinity seem to have very narrow anti cooperation posts since I have gotten in. This is a fact (you’ve said Mena or else) Infinities are a big more subtle with their reads list.

And yes I haven’t read any of the prior thread. I said as much.

This feels like you’re trying to twist what I am doing in building a communicative block into something bad.

If you want off my shit list work with people. Otherwise I have zero fucks elimming you.

Posted since my replace in**

Ebwop

[Firebringer]

You Lillith and Infinity are the ones that have posted. This is a fact.

You and Infinity seem to have very narrow anti cooperation posts since I have gotten in. This is a fact (you’ve said Mena or else) Infinities are a big more subtle with their reads list.

And yes I haven’t read any of the prior thread. I said as much.

This feels like you’re trying to twist what I am doing in building a communicative block into something bad.

If you want off my shit list work with people. Otherwise I have zero fucks elimming you.

I do not care for building a town block.

I could take or leave half the playerlist with regards to building a town base. I am fine with working indvidually with players but I have zero trust in building or forming some sort of town coalition.

I am number one anti group think, anti town player in this game, and I will continue doing it. Policy eliminate me. I give zero fucks.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Firebringer

Okay then. If you won’t work with town you’re inherently against it. I normally do not care for townblocks myself but here it is extremely important and one of the best weapons we have against scum.

[Firebringer]

Have fun with that.