TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Autumn Leaves]

But that line of thinking makes no sense when we have a replacement for koba that you can use to sort the slot.

[joqiza]

Okay at this point y'all vote wherever you want. This game is exhausting because I had to do an immense amount of work to bring around Firebringer when he just had a hard-on for Menalque and then he immediately subs out and I'm basically stuck at square zero with the sub. If Koba ends up flipping scum then I apologize but I think the team is just Johnny/Autumn fr and Johnny in particular would hard spew Koba town.

Like I can get the idea behind linking every slot that plays anti town but I would rather just lim the slot I think is scum.

If we're talking "anti town" Johnny is problem numero uno anyway, ignoring his slot is just as problematic as ignoring Koba, if not more.

[Menalque]

I’m very down to vote johnny, I just like hammering

[Menalque]

You may wanna speak to lili/auro?

[Autumn Leaves]

Joqiza why does scum!johnny imply town!koba?

[Shirou]

But that line of thinking makes no sense when we have a replacement for koba that you can use to sort the slot.

I don't think you understand my view

I hard scum read Koba at the moment, I don't need to sort anything else, I'm confident on them being scum from what I've read and I don't want to go into the whole "meta thing"

Meta has lost me more games than it has won games for me. I'm lazy but I could link a good deal of games where I had correct reads but changed it after analyzing "meta".

My opinion is that meta isn't so simply, you may feel something is similar but it isn't, I could link you two post from town!me vs scum!me doing the same thing.

You would say that therefore it's "NAI" for me to do it, but it isn't NAI, it's just that the differences are a lot more subtle and harder to pick, so unless you're meta-diving someone for many many hours, there's little benefit from meta other than confusing yourself.

[joqiza]

Joqiza why does scum!johnny imply town!koba?

Spoke about this in my earlier posts, but Johnny townlocked Koba way too easily in a way which implied he had TMI about koba's slot (scum!johnny probably wants to keep town!Koba around since they're -town EV). johnny also recently seemed inquisitive as to if mathblade was scummy implying they were considering pouncing on a lim opportunity.

[Shirou]

My funposting itself, from my point of view, is very different in town vs scum, but I don't expect anyone to come in and understand the subtle differences or when it's used.

It's just too much personal.

The player that people look up to when talking about meta is Elli, but Elli did

massive, enormous amount of meta-diving

on players to get meaningful tells, what is NAI and what is AI.

Just because something superficially looks similar, doesn't mean it's identical. I don't feel DK posts/reads are genuine and that's it.

I'll go back to reading the game/looking at Johnny now though.

[Autumn Leaves]

I don't understand how I'm supposed to scumread koba for something that, based on all available info, is something that they regularly do as town. If you don't feel that koba is genuine, that's fine, but the stated reasons for your scumread aren't valid. I feel like you should be keeping yourself open to re-evaluating the replacement rather than making up your mind prematurely on a player that is (I suppose, for you) difficult to read.

[Menalque]

I mean tbf if he’s reading sequentially and is only around page 55 then he’s about 50 pages off the mathblade rep in or more

It’s almost the opposite of what math has been doing lol

[Autumn Leaves]

Well normally when there's gonig to be a replacement I'm like "ok cool, I can re-evaluate my read then" rather than just basing my read off of one slot whose playstyle I could be reading as scummy.

[Shirou]

I don't understand how I'm supposed to scumread koba for something that

Don't in that case to be fair

I think I've come off as more confrontational than intended because up to page 55, DK is almost a consensus town read and it did bother me a bit.

Controversial but I don't have any intention on trying to make everyone change their minds on DK slot or anything, I'm playing this very casually/chill

I'm gonna just do my catch-up, say my reads and sit here open to voting consensus if it comes to that.

I know, being open to vote consensus doesn't sound good but I'm just exhausted of the usual route my games take really. Last Team Mafia was me 24/7 burning myself out by screaming for town to lim 3 players, which 2/3 were scum, and it was mentally draining to me.

I don't really care too much about this game compared to what I used to care, I'm here mostly to give my opinion and have fun.

In fact, if we're objectively speaking, DK has high chance of being town here/me being wrong when the people that knows them the most are town reading them, but I've just become a bit of a bitter person when it comes to "I know X meta" because in my experience it has rarely ever worked out.

[Shirou]

Well normally when there's gonig to be a replacement I'm like "ok cool, I can re-evaluate my read then" rather than just basing my read off of one slot whose playstyle I could be reading as scummy.

I used to be like that until I noticed I'm losing more games than winning them by that philosophy, really.

I'm open to anything MathBlade has to say/will post, but I shouldn't magically overlook everything DK did.

[Shirou]

I can be flat out wrong on DK, there's a good chance of that because I do think they would be slightly chaotic even as town, I just think there's way too much chaos for it to come from town in this game particularly.

But who knows, high chance I'm wrong here, but I'm gonna stick with my opinion I guess...

[Autumn Leaves]

That makes sense, but now I'm worried you're scum who was pissed about koba getting so many townreads despite playing badly.

Sorry about your previous team mafia experience though.

[Shirou]

That makes sense, but now I'm worried you're scum who was pissed about koba getting so many townreads despite playing badly.

Weird way of seeing it but...ok?

Autumn is one of my favorite seasons so I'll forgive you

[lilith2013]

hi shirou nice to meet you

what you’re saying about koba having no progression on super is also something that I pointed out earlier. I think on one hand it’s scummy; but on the other I have an impression of koba that they would play with agenda as town as well. I think you’re kind of trying to get at an occam’s razor thing, like let’s assume anyone playing with agenda is doing so because they’re scum.

@mena no response to my limericks big sad

[lilith2013]

anyway I’m down to vote math

[chennisden]

I don't understand how I'm supposed to scumread koba for something that

Don't in that case to be fair

I think I've come off as more confrontational than intended because up to page 55, DK is almost a consensus town read and it did bother me a bit.

Controversial but I don't have any intention on trying to make everyone change their minds on DK slot or anything, I'm playing this very casually/chill

I'm gonna just do my catch-up, say my reads and sit here open to voting consensus if it comes to that.

I know, being open to vote consensus doesn't sound good but I'm just exhausted of the usual route my games take really. Last Team Mafia was me 24/7 burning myself out by screaming for town to lim 3 players, which 2/3 were scum, and it was mentally draining to me.

I don't really care too much about this game compared to what I used to care, I'm here mostly to give my opinion and have fun.

In fact, if we're objectively speaking, DK has high chance of being town here/me being wrong when the people that knows them the most are town reading them, but I've just become a bit of a bitter person when it comes to "I know X meta" because in my experience it has rarely ever worked out.

ah that game. what a disaster

ended up replacing out mid-night because i got sick of it and got nightkilled the same night lmao

[Shirou]

also if u want to enjoy the status of the "let people let u slide" or w/e, ur gonna have to learn how to not care about how others view ur slot. Which u have yet to learn in ur mafia career. I think you see people giving me passes for not giving content and wish u get more leeway but ur not going to get that leeway till u learn that appeasing those people is always going to end up with u doing a dance in front of them to get that read u want. idk just tips for mental health.

Firebringer posting is just...SS tier, I don't mean in an alignment way (It's my own slot anyway) but I just want to point out that the most interesting thing about Firebringer to me, is that he usually doesn't do much in the game or takes things seriously, but in sudden moments he drops a few truths in the table or some well-developed reads.

I'm yet to get used to his playstyle but I do feel more comfortable everyday.

[Shirou]

ah that game. what a disaster

Yeah...I don't want to repeat those kind of games. I want to try being casual even though I always fail...

[Shirou]

I think you’re kind of trying to get at an occam’s razor thing, like let’s assume anyone playing with agenda is doing so because they’re scum.

Essentially, maybe yes, to me it's one of two things:

1) DK is scum

2) DK is town that does very random things for no good reason, pushes everyone without properly investing on it, think that they can keep "scum on the edge" by doing empty wagons, beats "scum!Super" dead horse just because, complains about most things in game, call anyone scum and backs down in the next 3 pages, and is mostly thinking they are super contributing towards town wincon even though it's debatable.

I'm gonna proceed with the simpler version indeed...it may be the second but dunno, not gonna torture myself over it.

[joqiza]

Shirou if you're so convinced DkKoba is scum how do you feel about Johnny's comment where he said "in no way is this DkKoba's scum game"

[lilith2013]

yeah I feel you

I think infinity is saying (and I agree) that koba has a playstyle/history that makes #2 more possible. My team actually told me to trust infinity’s read on koba because he’s supposed to be good at reading them, which is why I was kind of like “okay I guess I’ll townread koba” in the beginning.

[lilith2013]

Shirou if you're so convinced DkKoba is scum how do you feel about Johnny's comment where he said "in no way is this DkKoba's scum game"

hmm joqiza do you think that’s a partnery thing to do or anti-partnery? you think it spews koba-slot town because johnny is just doing a consensus read on koba?