In post 3972, MathBlade wrote:I could literally swap this with anyone. I am not trying to shut down you’re plan I am asking you to either explain how that list is different from just randomly picking names and explain how you got there.
You need to make assumptions in this game either way
For you to vote someone, you need to assume that they're the least towny person in the playerlist (The PoE), and for you to make town reads, you need to assume that the person is town (Lilith/Joqi), and to make associative reads, you need to assume what looks like partner/anti-partner interaction (Menalque / AL).
You're essentially telling me that in a game of assumption, where you're constantly assuming things, it's dangerous, suboptimal or wrong to assume things to solve the game in a more efficient way.
I can't help but feel your argument is silly Math.
In post 3972, MathBlade wrote:I could literally swap this with anyone. I am not trying to shut down you’re plan I am asking you to either explain how that list is different from just randomly picking names and explain how you got there.
You need to make assumptions in this game either way
For you to vote someone, you need to assume that they're the least towny person in the playerlist (The PoE), and for you to make town reads, you need to assume that the person is town (Lilith/Joqi), and to make associative reads, you need to assume what looks like partner/anti-partner interaction (Menalque / AL).
You're essentially telling me that in a game of assumption, where you're constantly assuming things, it's dangerous, suboptimal or wrong to assume things to solve the game in a more efficient way.
I can't help but feel your argument is silly Math.
Okay now I get how I am an idiot.......
Excuse the idiot while he just goes somewhere and facepalms repeatedly.
Derp
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
What I would like to see discussion about, is if everyone agree on those reads, because it doesn't matter the names, we're still in the same situation:
1) If we can have 3 consensus town reads
2) If we can have a pair of 2 that aren't scum together
In post 3977, Shirou wrote:What I would like to see discussion about, is if everyone agree on those reads, because it doesn't matter the names, we're still in the same situation:
1) If we can have 3 consensus town reads
2) If we can have a pair of 2 that aren't scum together
We essentially auto-win the game.
I would like to hold off on this until tomorrow when I am caught up.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3979, joqiza wrote:So Shirou. The issue I have with your plan is that for me, this "third player" to add to the block of me/lilith is already just Menalque.
So if possible I would want to find an additional not!SvS interaction that's not Mena/AL.
But I understand what you're saying in theory, I think.
That's fair, I don't plan to bruteforce this, but at the very least, I want us to consider delaying limming in Mena / AL if we don't think they are both partners.
The main reason I'm explaining this is to understand the importance of Mena / AL pairing, and also, we shouldn't make any other similar pairings in my opinion now that the plan is out, because scum could simply try to distance themselves from each other to be inserted as the anti-partners pairing.
That's why, I don't want to touch Mena / AL at the moment, and I'm a bit opposed to Chennis naturally, I would like for us to look elsewhere in Day 2, that's all at the moment.
Yeah, there's no other pairing that gives as much synergy as Mena / AL to me, because my third player suggestion is without a doubt Chennis, and Mena / AL / Chennis only has one scum regardless to me, so to me it's even more of a safe plan in all angles.
Theoretically though, as long as it's before I outed it, I guess you could look for that kind of pairing, but I don't think I've seen anything like Mena / AL.
Maybe Super / DK, but the fact is, Super slot, which is you Joqi, is already in the town block, so it can't be the pairing.
I think what I'd like to see is you come to a conclusion on Mena/AL further than not!SvS, if you can. I'll give you time to finish reading and we can discuss then.
The relationship doesn't hold the same value to me because I TR Menalque. Of course town could not be partnered with scum--if my assumption of town!Menalque is right then the not!SvS relationship implies nothing.
I would feel more comfortable if we could reach some common ground on the Mena slot. As it is I remain suspicious of you arguing to keep my scumread alive, no matter how well justified logically the plan is from your perspective.
And I think it does make sense, from a perspective of not being sure about either Mena or AL's alignments, but being sure they aren't partnered. But this isn't quite the perspective I hold rn.
Either way we can talk it out tmrw w/ Johnny's flip. I'm just nervous about that and your plan concerns me a bit because I've been burned in the past by people who proposed "autowin with extra steps."
For argument/example sake, in my most recent both town/scum games, that happened in the same setup, I also did propose plans which arguably gave town a chance to auto-win.
In the first one I was town, and my plan would be a success if only RNG wasn't against us (Long story short, we did everything right but since our PRs were random, we didn't have power enough to activate town cop ability, but if RNG wasn't stacked against us / the game wasn't cancelled because of a certain player, our plan N1 would be a success)
In the second one I was scum, and I made an improved version of my plan, with the following caveat:
I gave everyone a standard overall better version of my previous plan (no deceit here), but,
I offered an even better "auto-win" option of my plan, but with the caveat that for it to work, town needed to blindly trust me N1 because I couldn't say out aloud what I would do without it being countered by scum.
You may look at this and think "I see, you were trying to deceive town with your second plan", but that's in fact the real deceit itself. My plans were all logically sound because I don't think it's worth trying to deceive town mechanically unless I'm very sure no one will ever discover the hole in the plan (I don't take pointless risks). My real plan was that in fact, the second option was better even considering I was scum, because it would lock scum!me into being outed or on a hard 1v1 in Day 3, but I knew that the specific playerlist would be too scared of accepting the second plan especially considering they didn't trust me a lot in that game, so I would look better in endgame with my fakeclaim because my plan would suddenly "make much sense" and make me seem very town/give credibility to my claim, making LyLo much easier.
TL;DR is, even when I'm scum, my deceit is never the plan itself because that's too obvious, but the implications that come along with the plan or proposition. I don't think this setup is complex enough that I could do an elaborated mechanical plan that town couldn't understand the hole on it. This setup is as simple as lim or not lim, no PRs. There's a limit to the level of novelty I could pull off here.
You are partnered with XXX and YYY and may communicate with them at any time HERE.
You win when the town have been reduced to three members or less.
Please reply to this PM with your alignment to confirm.
We will enter a 24 hour non-game phase. This phase can end early with the consent of all remaining players. You can either send me a PM or tag me in your team's discord to let me know you consent to the start of Day 2. At the earliest this can happen is when I get up for work, approximately 8 hours from now. If all players don't consent an early start, Day 2 will start at 11pm ET.
I haven't done that much rr'ing yet tbh but there was one thing that really stuck out to me.
Yesterday Autumn posted 3777, which is like, a full reads list. This is before Johnny flipped which was one of the things concerned me, because I felt like reads at that moment in time should be at least somewhat contingent on Johnny's alignment, which we didn't know yet.
I asked him about this and in response he had 3843:
In post 3839, joqiza wrote:Ok maybe you're right and I'm getting paranoid I just want more time to go over it this evening. I'm still at work.
@Autumn wouldn't a ranking like that be at least somewhat contingent on what johnny flipped though? Is my point
I mean maybe? I'm probably going to look at interactions more after the flip, but I wanted to get that out there while I was motivated. I don't think it'll have too big of an effect because johnny didn't have a ton of interactions with people and scum likely bussed but it's not 100%.
the "scum likely bussed" kinda stands out there.
Johnny was pretty scummy at this point ig but in addition to everything I've already outlined in 3193 this makes me feel like Autumn knew Johnny's alignment.
The other slot I wanted to review was Flopz, who I remember was trying to move the hang off of Johnny/Autumn and onto chen.
