TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Autumn Leaves]

@Mena The way I view you as a person hasn't changed, how that view makes sense with your actions has changed.

[Menalque]

Tho after Shirou is all but guaranteeing they'll self-vote if there's a D3

Oh I saw this right as I was leaving

One of the huge glaring problems with shirou is how much effort he’s putting in to avoid doing this D3 and I have very little faith that he actually will

[Autumn Leaves]

Of course when flopz supports the plan, you stop supporting it.

[Menalque]

@Mena The way I view you as a person hasn't changed, how that view makes sense with your actions has changed.

Hokily dokily neighbour

Again, if you’re town, explain it now in 5 sentences

Do it, u won’t

[Menalque]

Okay actually actually good night lol

Infinity is scum claiming if he can’t explain what’s wrong with my slot in like 2 paragraphs or less here without needing to make a big BS case about it

[Autumn Leaves]

How about one sentences? I think you realized you had to do something extreme to get TRed and/or were frustrated about very high expectations for towniness, so you thought the toxicity was justified.

[Flopz]

Tho after Shirou is all but guaranteeing they'll self-vote if there's a D3

Oh I saw this right as I was leaving

One of the huge glaring problems with shirou is how much effort he’s putting in to avoid doing this D3 and I have very little faith that he actually will

And then we just vote him then

[Autumn Leaves]

Tbh I still think it's shirou/mena, maybe I'm insane.

[Flopz]

Hop (he said refer to him as acting as an independent advisory body) independently hard agrees with my TRs on Liliith, Menal, Joqiza and Infinity. So we just need to clear the POE and ezpz

[Shirou]

I don't know Mena, genuine question -

You think I'm particularly good scum according to your past posts

I'm proving to you that Chennis is my partner no caps if I'm ever scum here. At maximum you can think about [Lilith, Shirou] but I wouldn't be this associative to Lilith when she already had a strong standing in the game.

Do you think I make this mess of a plan to get rid of [Auro , Flopz] first, even offer my own slot and get it to E-1, when I could simply ride the waves with Chennis completely out of the picture in D2 start?

Like, you need to believe I'm intentionally playing a bad scum game. There's no logic you can use here to say this is the optimal course of actions Mena. This is beyond WIFOM, one more and scum team loses the game, this isn't the moment to play gambits to put attention on us, the gambit would have been trying to squeeze credit out of Johnny and ride the LHFs in the next days, not hard buss our partner and offer my head in trade of another slot.

Mena, I know it's super hard to see how flawed our thinking is sometimes when we're in a tunnel, but give it a long thought not about your read on my tone or surface level actions, what the hell is exactly my plan here as scum with Chennis considering my actions.

If there's one single thing consistent about my scum games, up to my very very first scum game in this site, is that I always make plans.

Do I look like a man that has big plans here with offering my head, outing Chennis as the unique possible partner to me, and proposing a plan of not limming into the LHFs?

Mena, the town credit simply isn't worth it. This WIFOM I would create with this takes me nowhere. I'm not this foolish.

There's only meaning in WIFOM or so if at the end you are better off than other options. I don't see how I would be better off in this than other options.

[Flopz]

Tbh I still think it's shirou/mena, maybe I'm insane.

So join in the Auro vote and we lim Shirou tomorrow, it's just that easy

[Shirou]

Tho after Shirou is all but guaranteeing they'll self-vote if there's a D3, I see no reason to join this as it's two bird one stone.

VOTE: Auro

This doesn't surprise me as much for reasons I can't be bothered to explain, but sure

VOTE: Auro

Now we wait Joqi decision. I can go back to Infinity if it needs to be in case this dismantles.

I guess we've enough now for Chennis to hammer, but I doubt Chennis hammers here. Chennis is too cautious for that.

[Shirou]

Shirou's saying that Shirou/Chenn/Math + Auro/Flopz is one pool where there's 2 scum at one point based on the townblock then ALSO say that if me and Auro flip town they'd be more interested in pushing in the townblock afterwards. Completely ignoring Chenn there.

Town block does include reconsidering Chennis, but I'm not sure how to even proceed into reconsidering Chennis/Lilith/Joqi. They are...just town to me.

Which is why I think we can win the game early either way.

[Shirou]

In a hypothetical team of Auro / Flopz, I would buss here as well to try to distance as last option

They need to get through 4 eliminations, they need to distance themselves to make the "Auro/Flopz" team unbelievable, it's a now or never situation.

Maybe though, this is just town!Flopz that has their own opinions.

Maybe though, this is just scum!Flopz that wants to get two free eliminations, but the deal includes him as a third one, so in the end it's either gonna be the playerlist betraying me in this scenario and not doing him when they should, or dunno.

I'm ok voting together with him. Whatever this game is too much of a mess now and I told you @Chennis.

[Flopz]

Hopkirk is just yelling at me becuase he's saying that Shirou's alternative strategy of voting off Me/Auro/Maths which leaves Shirou/Chennis/Lilith, Menal, Joqiza/Infinity and that Him and Chennis will never be be the least scummy of the townblock so he has to take a crazy gambit or he just loses

[Shirou]

Even if you think Flopz was the scumz, you should have kept your vote on Auro.

I said it before, I'll repeat. Too much of anything is most of the time negative.

This includes cautious.

If we had let someone else hammer, doesn't matter the scum in Auro/Flopz it would probably go sooner or later, but I can see a lot more leeway for scum!Flopz to get away now.

[Shirou]

Hopkirk is just yelling at me becuase he's saying that Shirou's alternative strategy of voting off Me/Auro/Maths which leaves Shirou/Chennis/Lilith, Menal, Joqiza/Infinity and that Him and Chennis will never be be the least scummy of the townblock so he has to take a crazy gambit or he just loses

What the fuck

Mena/Joqi/Lilith are all up to eliminate Infinity

Infinity > Math > Auro > Flopz is 4 eliminations for Chennis/Shirou. Exactly more or less the plan I would recommend us doing.

But again, maybe you're just scum.

[Shirou]

There's enough LHFs here in this game for a Chennis/Shirou team that I never had to get myself dirtier than normal.

I don't expect anyone to understand this however.

I've talked before but looking at the game objectively, and seeing what's the best mechanical endgame for scum!Shirou is a decent way of trying to read me rather than tone, activity, associatives or etc.

The above is literally what I would do and relax if I was scum. This game isn't hard enough if I was scum with Chennis to need all this gambit, and I wouldn't do it for fun because it involves no power roles, and I only have fun fakeclaiming mechanical stuff rather than involving myself on drama.

[Autumn Leaves]

Tbh I still think it's shirou/mena, maybe I'm insane.

So join in the Auro vote and we lim Shirou tomorrow, it's just that easy

Before I vote a townread, I need to be 100% certain that there's enough support to make a deal like this. You, me, shirou, and maybe math would be votes, but mena maybe seems like he's backing out?

[Flopz]

Hopkirk is just yelling at me becuase he's saying that Shirou's alternative strategy of voting off Me/Auro/Maths which leaves Shirou/Chennis/Lilith, Menal, Joqiza/Infinity and that Him and Chennis will never be be the least scummy of the townblock so he has to take a crazy gambit or he just loses

What the fuck

Mena/Joqi/Lilith are all up to eliminate Infinity

Infinity > Math > Auro > Flopz is 4 eliminations for Chennis/Shirou. Exactly more or less the plan I would recommend us doing.

But again, maybe you're just scum.

We don't believe you will self-vote tomorrow but it's fine, prove us wrong

That's literally the thing you want to do but just taking yourself out of the equation, you said you want to do me n Auro and then Math and then you implied you want to vote/"reconsider" one of the town block. The person we think is your partner is literally against this strategy of voting you. You're not gonna self-vote tomorrow but it doesn't matter, we'll follow your plan.

[Shirou]

3 hours, 15 minutes until midnight on my clock by the way. You can check the consistency in my previous posts.

I do plan maybe to extend the deadline a bit now that we've something going, but you never know.

all scum!Shirou believers, better get your chips in before I call it off.

[Flopz]

Tbh I still think it's shirou/mena, maybe I'm insane.

So join in the Auro vote and we lim Shirou tomorrow, it's just that easy

Before I vote a townread, I need to be 100% certain that there's enough support to make a deal like this. You, me, shirou, and maybe math would be votes, but mena maybe seems like he's backing out?

Oh yh defo, we need 5 of us to agree (not Shirou or Chenn) that Shirou is getting voted tomorrow regardless of him obv attempting to squirm out of it when it happens

[Flopz]

Tbh I still think it's shirou/mena, maybe I'm insane.

So join in the Auro vote and we lim Shirou tomorrow, it's just that easy

Before I vote a townread, I need to be 100% certain that there's enough support to make a deal like this. You, me, shirou, and maybe math would be votes, but mena maybe seems like he's backing out?

Oh yh defo, we need 5 of us to agree (not Shirou or Chenn) that Shirou is getting voted tomorrow regardless of him obv attempting to squirm out of it when it happens

Hopkirk also says not Auro

[Flopz]

Hopkirk is also an idiot

[Shirou]

We don't believe you will self-vote tomorrow but it's fine, prove us wrong

This is the correct conclusion about a scum!Shirou, except that I wouldn't do Auro > not self-vote.

I would simply propose BoP in Auro but never bother to actually see it through, but be less aggressive/more emotional to try to sound town.

Killing Auro today is winning against the gamble that scum!Shirou makes, there's no way I could talk my way off the noose tomorrow as scum.

/shrug

We wait now I guess.