Mini Normal 2191 | Endgame

[Maduisha]

Your role was very inactive yesterday. I had a theory and wanted to see if my theory was likely.

...and what was this theory?

I want to hear about this too. What about Lenora getting prodded and replaced makes you want to check for PR there?

[Maduisha]

Actually, wouldn't it have been more logical for Fuzzy to check whether Cabd was actually PR or lying, considering he made posts like this:

Maybe I am wrong but Cabd's claim seems like a bluff or a gambit atp . if that is true I dont know if that makes him town or scum. I would lean town as it would be a wierd gambit /bluff coming town. His action does not seem to match up with what one would expect from a player with that role. I guess he could be a JOAT but I have my doubts atm.

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

Why did you think an inactive slot was worth spending your action on instead of a player you were calling out for bluffing like this?

[maxwell]

...No, absolutely not. Checking a slot that is an assumed counter claim is a waste of time, 100%. Especially given neapolitan powers, the likely result is that ghe confirms that the claimed power role is not a VT, which tells you xactly nothing about their alignment. I have a feeling I'm going to be annoyed at his theory for checking me regardless, but that's poor reasoning for a vote.

(I've skimmed enough to know what the claims are, but am reading from the start right now, still in the early game)

[Cabd]

Yeah in a world where I think fuzzy's claim is anything short of 100% real, checking him is the height of stupidity. And vice-versa.

[Cabd]

I'm honestly kicking myself in hindsight for not checking umlaut because it prolly would have been a guilty.

Oh well. Clidd is officially a mason. With himself for now but hey. Welcome to stone cutting class.

[Umlaut]

So uh, if I understood correctly, Fuzzy can tell us whether Max is vanilla or not (with town PR and mafia showing as "not vanilla" regardless of alignment), while Cabd has an innocent result at hand. I'd say Cabd revealing who he got an innocent on is the best move here, while Fuzzy's result I would say is more tricky because we'd be narrowing the setup for scum if he is not faking it.

Not quite. Fuzzy's (purportedly) a Neapolitan, so he gets a result of "Vanilla Townie" or "not Vanilla Townie." Your followup in 576 makes more sense given that you mistakenly thought Fuzzy could have possibly expected a vanilla result on Cabd, and I don't actually have a problem with voting Fuzzy in itself, but I don't think that's a good reason.

I kind of think this mistake makes you more town but then I already thought you were at least >rand town.

[maxwell]

I'm honestly kicking myself in hindsight for not checking umlaut because it prolly would have been a guilty.

Oh well. Clidd is officially a mason. With himself for now but hey. Welcome to stone cutting class.

Why did you check clidd?

[Umlaut]

I'm honestly kicking myself in hindsight for not checking umlaut because it prolly would have been a guilty.

If you think scum!me ever kills Ben last night I need to know what drugs you're taking and where I can get some.

[Cabd]

I feel like it's fairly obvious why I checked Clidd. He's essentially my own play style but not in my slot... I know exactly how dangerous it is to town read that effort, and that the play style snows towns hard. SO if I lived, getting to KNOW he is town and can know all work we do together is genuine? That's rad.

[Cabd]

I'm honestly kicking myself in hindsight for not checking umlaut because it prolly would have been a guilty.

If you think scum!me ever kills Ben last night I need to know what drugs you're taking and where I can get some.

"If you think scum me would do XYZ you're ABC" is like a meme now, my dude.

That said, the statement you quoted was about 15% serious and 85% snark.

[maxwell]

I feel like it's fairly obvious why I checked Clidd. He's essentially my own play style but not in my slot... I know exactly how dangerous it is to town read that effort, and that the play style snows towns hard. SO if I lived, getting to KNOW he is town and can know all work we do together is genuine? That's rad.

Well, I'm getting to your replace in and you had him as a townread, curious as to why that changed?

[Cabd]

He is a townread.

I don't see cop as always something you hero play with trying to get a guilty. I see it as a way to remove paranoia from the board about players you think could be capable of getting past you extremely well.

[Umlaut]

"If you think scum me would do XYZ you're ABC" is like a meme now, my dude.

[maxwell]

He is a townread.

I don't see cop as always something you hero play with trying to get a guilty. I see it as a way to remove paranoia from the board about players you think could be capable of getting past you extremely well.

But fuzzy is something like 99% certainty to be scum from your POV, yes? A cop guilty on his partner would put the game in a state of virtual autowin. Why on earth would you not check someone you believe likely to be teamed with him?

[clidd]

Cabd, I have two questions:

- What is your view on Fuzzy rn? (town/scum)
- Do you think that Umlaut is scum by PoE, or it's your gut ping from D1?

[Cabd]

Mm, nearly 100%. I don't think I'll live to see tomorrow, do you?

Mostly the latter. But the "lol why not check fuzzy" comment hella pinged me.

[Cabd]

I mean in general, I feel like criticism of my choice in shots boils down to disagreement in how optimal it was, which is like...

Put three scummers in a room and you'll find it impossible for them to all agree on anything? Let alone optimal play of a given role?

[clidd]

It makes sense to me your reasoning to check me out.

But I expected a more resolute instance of yours in relation to the game.

I don't know if you're still saving your reads or playing in real time.

Something I wanted your opinion too was the possibility of Maduisha being a deepwolf, as she is my strongest TR in the game, and a more concrete impression if Fuzzy's behavior makes sense from scum or not.

Regarding Umlaut, nothing has made me feel that he has acted maliciously (scummy) so far.

[maxwell]

All right, I've read through all of day 1, haven't taken any sort of notes this time but have reads I feel decently about, but I'm going to wait on fuzzy outing his result on me. Think he's trueclaiming although it says nothing about his alignment, but don't want to influence anything by posting reads prematurely.

[Cabd]

But I expected a more resolute instance of yours in relation to the game.

I don't know if you're still saving your reads or playing in real time.

I am specifically hiding at least one fact, the go time button is once we resolve the rest of the pending night action claim details.

[clidd]

Ok, so it's time for Fuzzy to say his result.

[Cabd]

Given maxwell endorsed that product and or service? Yeah.

[clidd]

While we wait, btw:

VOTE: Maxwell

[Maduisha]

...No, absolutely not. Checking a slot that is an assumed counter claim is a waste of time, 100%. Especially given neapolitan powers, the likely result is that ghe confirms that the claimed power role is not a VT, which tells you xactly nothing about their alignment. I have a feeling I'm going to be annoyed at his theory for checking me regardless, but that's poor reasoning for a vote.

(I've skimmed enough to know what the claims are, but am reading from the start right now, still in the early game)

I was saying this in vein that he was supposedly paranoid of Cabd's claim being a gambit, and in the post I quoted he explicitly said he is not sure if that comes from town or scum. Regardless of his investigation not giving him alignment information, I thought it would be relevant to his logic about "Cabd is lying" to check whether he is or not. The fact that he didn't makes me feel he was not exactly genuine about his concern about Cabd.

Also, I don't think JOAT is counter claim to neapolitan, is it? There was chatter about counterclaims going on, but I don't think they're roles that can't coexist.

So uh, if I understood correctly, Fuzzy can tell us whether Max is vanilla or not (with town PR and mafia showing as "not vanilla" regardless of alignment), while Cabd has an innocent result at hand. I'd say Cabd revealing who he got an innocent on is the best move here, while Fuzzy's result I would say is more tricky because we'd be narrowing the setup for scum if he is not faking it.

Not quite. Fuzzy's (purportedly) a Neapolitan, so he gets a result of "Vanilla Townie" or "not Vanilla Townie." Your followup in 576 makes more sense given that you mistakenly thought Fuzzy could have possibly expected a vanilla result on Cabd, and I don't actually have a problem with voting Fuzzy in itself, but I don't think that's a good reason.

I kind of think this mistake makes you more town but then I already thought you were at least >rand town.

Why is it a "mistake"? I don't really see it. He was pushing the idea that Cabd was bluffing, so it only makes sense wanting to test out if his idea was true. He basically just told us "Hey I think Cabd is not really JOAT, anyway I just tested Lenora's slot instead." Like, I'm aware he'd still get "not VT" if Cabd were to be scum PR, but I don't think scum PR fakeclaims unprompted D1 and risks losing their night action if they get cc'd/eliminated for it. And Fuzzy was telling us "this is a bluff" which if he believes Cabd is town, it makes no sense to signal to us that Cabd might be bluffing (in the case Cabd truly was VT baiting the NK). And if he thinks Cabd is just a goon willing to play the gambit, it makes no sense in my head not to check the slot he is supposedly paranoid of being lying + being scum.

[Maduisha]

I really look forward to the "theory" that justifies checking Lenora/Maxwell slot instead of Cabd, because I feel that "theory" was thrown as a buzzword.

The only reason I think I would be fine with would be if he found crumbing from Lenora and wanted to check in case she was "vanilla" and tried to claim her crumb, but the reason he gave Maxwell was "she was very inactive" and I think that won't have anything to do with crumbs or anything that makes actual sense for his role usage, lol.