In post 870, jjh927 wrote:I don't think the actual position he's taking here is AI at all
See, I understand where you're getting this from?
Because I too believe his frustration here is completely real. He is GENUINELY upset and frustrated. That's not fake.
But his frustration and upset here don't mean shit because the frustration is easily explained by him being upset at how I got to my read, likely because it was right.
The fact this player hasn't done anything at all constructive or townie this game along with their bad reactions is multiple reasons to scumread them that don't include their frustration being AI.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
In post 845, Dannflor wrote:okay but the way you phrased that whole post sounds like you're trying to set up a dichotomy of "I'm the good-faith player here just trying to understand you LLD and you are the bad-faith player"
like it's very p e r f o r m a t i v e and "does anyone reading this find this behavior to be towny from LLD" is a direct appeal to the crowd that feels more like you're looking for a specific answer than actually trying to get a meta read from anyone
ok well I literally just want input from people, can i get yours?
In post 852, hercule wrote:i feel like i'm being gaslit here: i am trying to find mafia and i'm being accused of not doing anything towny, what else do you expect town to do?
I've played like two games with LLD and she was mafia in both so I don't think anything I say is gonna be based in an amazing meta read
I don't think this approach from her is especially scummy though
I think it's a little odd you haven't considered that maybe she came out of the gate pushing you so hard in order to see what your reaction was. Very generally speaking I'd say it's more likely scum wants concrete reasons to back up their pushes but I wouldn't apply that necessarily to LLD because she's a very good player. But the fact that you're fixed on this, on why LLD pushed you originally feels unproductive and like you should know it would be unproductive.
Like, you haven't commented on much else in this game and as a townie I would expect you to while maybe devoting some attention to LLD, have more thoughts outside of that. Basically, I want to know what you think about literally anything else in this game besides LLD.
I'm suspect of you now not because of anything LLD said originally, but because I think your reaction to pressure here is bad. Like why does it matter that you don't think LLD has good reasoning to be pushing you? Do you think she's scum for it? It almost feels like now you're looking for permission to scum read her for it when you should just do that if you feel like it's scummy.
you're post is interesting but isn't hercule literally voting LLD
does that make a difference? look how hercule came to vote me, and how when i refused to interact with him in the way he wanted he then decided his vote was really real only THEN.
Dann's point is valid whether Hercule is voting me or an imaginary friend, but since you're asking, hercule's vote history is not stellar.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
It's a tricky situation if you're town when a thread-dominating player leads a significant wagon on you and you aren't 100% sure if they're scum for doing it
That's been the vibe I got
"As best I can tell, jjh is some kind of wizard with mind control powers." -Jingle
In post 872, jjh927 wrote:I would agree that hard engaging on a 1V1 with you is a terrible idea for scum
I just don't think it's a good idea for town either
Working so I can't get to everything yet but I wanted to specifically key in on this while it was relevant: Do you want to address the point that Hercule is flailing about not for being misread but for being caught for the wrong reasons? Because that's become the most convincing point to me right now.
I need to read up and reply to other shit after I finish this OT, but consider me leaning towards voting Hercule rn.
Ski mask? Check! Sawed off? Check! Guilty conscience, fear of death? Check! Check! Check!
In post 872, jjh927 wrote:I would agree that hard engaging on a 1V1 with you is a terrible idea for scum
I just don't think it's a good idea for town either
Working so I can't get to everything yet but I wanted to specifically key in on this while it was relevant: Do you want to address the point that Hercule is flailing about not for being misread but for being caught for the wrong reasons? Because that's become the most convincing point to me right now.
I need to read up and reply to other shit after I finish this OT, but consider me leaning towards voting Hercule rn.
I don't think that's a thing people actually do
"As best I can tell, jjh is some kind of wizard with mind control powers." -Jingle
i do not have a photographic (or even good) memory, but i'm reading every post in this game that isn't made by mastina (i tried, but she lost me around 10 pages ago)
In post 879, jjh927 wrote:It's a tricky situation if you're town when a thread-dominating player leads a significant wagon on you and you aren't 100% sure if they're scum for doing it
That's been the vibe I got
okay, so you're town this game, which is good.
but there is a difference between town doing that and scum trying to wiggle free.
So I'll ask you this: Do you honestly believe that this player as town asks their team about me, gets the answer "could be scum" and then while ALREADY VOTING ME both
1) attempts to interact with someone who is cross voting them about why they think they are scum
and 2) when told "fuck off you're scum" performatively throws their hands in the air goes woe is me and then reconfirms their vote as SUPER SERIOUS GUYS.
I don't thikn that's how a townie handles that interaciton. I don't think a townie approaches me like that and I don't think if a townie were to be in that spot they respond to my "nope ur scum lul" with that reaction.
Do you?
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
Jjh
Dannflor
Cephrir
Winter Flakes
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst
Ythan
Titus
Kinda Sus
Almost50
pedit: honestly tho like they just talked about how epic of a scumgame they have and how they're the queen of AtE like what are we even gonna get from voting there, I feel like A50 wagon has better chance to gain traction and LLD is one of those players that if they're scum you have to case the fuck out of them after flipping a partner or two. butttt yolo i'll vote with you because you're my friend
VOTE: Lady LambdaDelta
hercule explicitly null reads LLD and their vote was "ok i guess I'll sheep you"
Like I said, it feels like they are looking for permission to OMGUS
In post 879, jjh927 wrote:It's a tricky situation if you're town when a thread-dominating player leads a significant wagon on you and you aren't 100% sure if they're scum for doing it
That's been the vibe I got
okay, so you're town this game, which is good.
but there is a difference between town doing that and scum trying to wiggle free.
So I'll ask you this: Do you honestly believe that this player as town asks their team about me, gets the answer "could be scum" and then while ALREADY VOTING ME both
1) attempts to interact with someone who is cross voting them about why they think they are scum
and 2) when told "fuck off you're scum" performatively throws their hands in the air goes woe is me and then reconfirms their vote as SUPER SERIOUS GUYS.
I don't thikn that's how a townie handles that interaciton. I don't think a townie approaches me like that and I don't think if a townie were to be in that spot they respond to my "nope ur scum lul" with that reaction.
Do you?
are you stupid? you gave off this impression that you understand the game of mafia on a deep level, and yet it blows your mind that someone uninformed of other's alignments could have contradictory thoughts and constantly be evaluating their reads on other players
if anything, scum trips over their feet trying to keep a consistent thought process, which is what makes them come across as stilted and forced. are you being willfully ignorant of this or what
Jjh
Dannflor
Cephrir
Winter Flakes
Lady Lambdadelta
the worst
Ythan
Titus
Kinda Sus
Almost50
pedit: honestly tho like they just talked about how epic of a scumgame they have and how they're the queen of AtE like what are we even gonna get from voting there, I feel like A50 wagon has better chance to gain traction and LLD is one of those players that if they're scum you have to case the fuck out of them after flipping a partner or two. butttt yolo i'll vote with you because you're my friend
VOTE: Lady LambdaDelta
hercule explicitly null reads LLD and their vote was "ok i guess I'll sheep you"
Like I said, it feels like they are looking for permission to OMGUS
any person who hasn't done anything towny is a fine vote, she had lots of content, that doesn't mean null
In post 885, jjh927 wrote:One would need an incredible ego to believe there are "wrong" reasons to be caught as scum and elimed in day 1
I mean the dude is literally posting the following things:
1) waffling about whether to call me bad or scum while keeping his vote on me
2) saying I have no reason to call him scum
3) getting very and REALLY upset that I refuse to give him one
The closer he gets to an elimination and the more votes pile on, the more this happens.
Perhaps "wrong" is a misnomer here. The accused is reacting to me having given them less than 0 public reasons for why they are scum, only pointing at posts I don't like and leaving why they are bad as an exercise to the reader.
And that has upset them. and to my mind given their reactions and posting that is far more likely to come from scum who is upset that the game is being decided on these metrics and is posting while mad than it is a townie who is trying to survive.
Like by a very measurable margin
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
In post 891, jjh927 wrote:Tell me more about your team's discussions of LLD, Hercule
i was asked really nicely to not bring up anything one member of my team said (who believes she is scum) but the other teammate in the discussion joqiza wasn't sure how to read her, liked the post where she said she was elite at scum but didn't think she really articulated any exact reasons that make her good
In post 892, hercule wrote:dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about
Right because we're not going to be the ones to give you free interaction points that you can point to when we THINK YOU ARE SCUM.
Again, if you're townie, you are meant to be doing townie things.
But instead here you are complaining that people voting for you won't give you a layup so you can APPEAR townie.
Because the mentality being approached by hercule, here folks. Is not "townie trying to solve the game"
it's "scum player trying not to look scummy"
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
In post 892, hercule wrote:dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about
Right because we're not going to be the ones to give you free interaction points that you can point to when we THINK YOU ARE SCUM.
Again, if you're townie, you are meant to be doing townie things.
But instead here you are complaining that people voting for you won't give you a layup so you can APPEAR townie.
Because the mentality being approached by hercule, here folks. Is not "townie trying to solve the game"
it's "scum player trying not to look scummy"
i mean your behavior ain't exactly "let's try to solve the game" either, you're playing "let's get hercule elimmed"
In post 892, hercule wrote:dannflor you said you wanted to see thoughts about the game outside LLD from me and yet you say Nothing when i ask what you want to know about
Right because we're not going to be the ones to give you free interaction points that you can point to when we THINK YOU ARE SCUM.
Again, if you're townie, you are meant to be doing townie things.
But instead here you are complaining that people voting for you won't give you a layup so you can APPEAR townie.
Because the mentality being approached by hercule, here folks. Is not "townie trying to solve the game"
it's "scum player trying not to look scummy"
i mean your behavior ain't exactly "let's try to solve the game" either, you're playing "let's get hercule elimmed"
My position is that doing one accomplishes both.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
