TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok hold on.
Shirou pinged me on discord and i should probably explain how we got to this point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

UNVOTE:

[Flavor Leaf]

why would i be afraid to claim JOAT here.

I legit almost even fake claimed it here as town when you asked.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What’s even more sure is that absolutely nothing will happen if the game keeps going with FL standing on my groin while every other slot that needs solving is going fishing.

Yet, you are okay with Ico obsessing on me?

If this is your actual reasoning, then why accuse him of scumslipping?

[Flavor Leaf]

feels like youre trying to do whatever you can to get rid of me right now

[Nancy Drew 39]

I could also see it as possible attempt to derail by narrowly focusing on me to the exclusion of other slots.

i think the way that this gamestate has progressed this is naturally happening between the two of you

Please explain because it’s not making any sense to me?

i think you two just kinda started

tunneling each other

that's the best way i can put it

Not really, he’s the one who came after me first and I just reacted because it made - and still doesn’t - any damn sense to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, you can tell I'm town here by the sheer lack of pawns I would have.

Also, as scum, I could have just waited for DEB to hammer Zoraster to get town cred for staying off.

Idk, I just think it's blatantly obvious I'm town here, people just wanna be paranoid of me because they dont understand me

[Flavor Leaf]

you're making a case, but that's casing what I do as town, Norwegian, not what I do as scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

First of all about our townreads.

Basically we think the main problem of our game is a lack of coherent discussion that progress the game in a good direction, most of the pushes/arguments in the game so far haven’t impressed us. We were initially trying to solidify our reads on Akarin/Pine before moving on to other slots but they don't seem to be present at all.

At the moment, we believe that Ico / Nancy / TGP are town together

Ico and Nancy arguments are a waste of pages in our pov because it's a pointless TvT

TGP in day 1 was a low hanging fruit/distraction wagon

Furthermore, i believe that Status is towny, while Shirou believes Mistyx is towny, therefore in consensus our town block for D2 is:

[Ico, Nancy, TGP, Status, Mistyx]

We don't have any hope on convincing Nancy to get off Ico though, but this is the people we're going to try to work with for now.

TGP going from scum to town was Shirou convincing me since he also thought Zor wagon was unimpressive and it did flip town, for those that find the transition weird. The read on FL is also partially mine but we can talk more about FL later.

[Flavor Leaf]

You didn’t read TM20 as evidenced by post 1792.

You didn’t know there would be more than one town JOAT so you might have crumbed it here. There is no reason at all for you to crumb unless you are a JOAT. And i don’t buy there are 3 town JOATS when 2 powerful ones has already flipped.
I’m thinking you could be scum that slipped up.
Trying to take the nightkill sounds like a bloody excuse.

I don't claim JOAT as a scum JOAT, sorry, it's just a flawed case. It's a pretty good case, for what it's worth, but yeah

Nancy and Mystyx can both confirm to you that I never claim my real role as scum.

Is anyone Mastina's partner here? Ask Mastina if I claim my real role as scum ever.

[Flavor Leaf]

lack of coherent discussion that progress the game

another thing that isnt usually absent from my scum games.

[Flavor Leaf]

So with those reads, Norwegian, and the knowledge that I'm town, what part of why I think you are scum do you not understand here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also, you can tell I'm town here by the sheer lack of pawns I would have.

Also, as scum, I could have just waited for DEB to hammer Zoraster to get town cred for staying off.

Idk, I just think it's blatantly obvious I'm town here, people just wanna be paranoid of me because they dont understand me

I think you’re town here but I get the paranoia because you are legit terrifying as scum. Like probably the only thing I didn’t like was when you accused me of “shading” Ram with my whole vc posting thing but since he’s very obviously town here, that’s town indicative for you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So considering our townblock of [Ico, Nancy, TGP, Status, Mistyx]
for now, we're looking into a PoE of [FL, Pine, Ramcius, Akarin], with the caveat that DEB may or not be scum, but i’m gonna leave DEB to the side for now.

Today i was focusing on [FL, Pine, Ramcius, Akarin]. So if our town block is roughly right, even if DEB is scum or there's one scum in our townblock, chances are that 2/4 of our PoE is scum, which is also why we were interested in hearing more from Pine/Akarin.

I’ll properly explain mine and Shirou’s read on FL when the time comes, but our reads right now point out to at least 2/4 of our PoE being scum if not 3/4. Which means FL has from math alone 50% to 75% chance of being in the scum team in our solve accordingly.

[NorwegianboyEE]

To make this process more efficient i suggest for the sake of the game that i discuss with Nancy about FL/Iconeum later. And rather prioritize engaging TGP/Iconeum about FL first. And then get Status/MistyX on board. And lastly Nancy if needed.
Also i would like MistyX to talk about their suspicion on me and take a firm stance on it so i can understand what it is they are thinking.

[Ramcius]

You know, Ramcius delusional push might just be so out of this world that it’s more likely town because of how completely outlandish it is.
They claim i’m not pushing or solving when you just have to look at my ISO in 2 seconds to see how that’s just not true.

*Norwe's attempt to pocket Ramcius with a townread was unsuccessful*

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Ram and FL are town.

[Ramcius]

Where my buddy TSQ gone? He was so active D1, yet now nothing from him

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let me present to you all, our comprehensive, collective, collaboration effort. The: "Flavor Leaf FAQ":

Q1: "Do you necessarily think FL is the scum JOAT?"

A1: No. We checked the anime game in the previous TM, and our conclusion considering TGP claim + Zor and BB flips, is that the philosophy of the design feels similar.

In the previous "Anime Destroy" game, there also were 2 Town JOATs, and one Scum JOAT that had abilities that could counter the abilities of the Town JOATs. Both of the past Town JOATs were weaker than ours JOATs, so we strongly believe that there also needs to be a Scum JOAT here to balance the game out.

That would fall in-line with Penguim balance/setup philosophy. We don't think FL necessarily is the Scum JOAT, just that he had the knowledge about JOATs.

Question 2: "Why would scum!FL post that?"

Reply 2: Most people in the game at the time FL posted "he had reasons to like the claim" did give him town credit for saying that, but the truth also is that there doesn't need to be a complex reason. He may have known about JOATs, felt cute, and posted about it.

Question 3: "scum!FL is super smart about claims, he would never have done that!"

Reply 3: I recommend you to read Mini Normal 2124 as an example. scum!FL did a dumb claim that not only exposed him, but also associated himself with his partner in later days. Churros, which was a Shirou's alt, instantly caught him upon replacing-in, merely looking in the claim.

In the previous TM game, scum!FL also did a minor scumslip. In our opinion, to think scum!FL is flawless is very, very silly. He didn't know at the time there would be a second Town JOAT, maybe he couldn't predict people would look into it/take it seriously in later days, etc.

Question 4: "I have reason to believe Scum!FL’s meta is..."

Reply 4: We understand your position. We don't think FL is 100% confirmed scum or anything, we're merely enthusiastically considering him as likely, both from PoE and for other details. We don't want to get too much on "meta" because in for example in the Black Flag game, people had "town meta" on DK, and Fire had "town meta" on Auro, but both were scum.

We want to prioritize what FL has done in game over what people say or not about his meta.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My main reason in entertaining FL being scum is the fact that it is getting more and more obvious his push on me is in bad-faith, there is also the fact that he seemingly had knowledge about zor’s claim being true and leaked that in D1.

He’s also been pro-scum so far on his pushes/takes when looking at our PoE, to the point where he also seems to be siding with most of them, so it's really not a good look for him at all and thus it’s harder and harder to see a world where he is town and still has all these things going against him.
VOTE: Flavour Leaf

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hopefully that answered all of the questions and lead you all to understand why my reads have deceloped the way they have so far.

[Flavor Leaf]

nobody but you thinks it's in bad faith

[Flavor Leaf]

it's not a bad case, like i said before, i just know it's wrong

[NorwegianboyEE]

By the way.
I’m not locking FL as scum. I just think it is likely given their pro scum stances so far. I still want to hear from other slots, and my vote isn’t final but it’s stsying here because i’m fairly sure about this and want to hear what Misty/Iconeum/TGP/Status has to say.

[Flavor Leaf]

your reply 3 is flawed because any time I've scum slipped, it's been because I talked in a neighborhood.

Both of my big scum slips, of which there aren't that many in my 7 years here, so I actually have an incredibly low slip rate, mind you, have been because I talked in my neighborhood instead of my scum pt.

Claim related reasoning is just kinda wrong here.